internalaudit

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That's the problem. Many of us keep our cars for much longer compared to 6-7 years for many North Americans so reliability is important and cost of repairs.

Also the more I read about cars, especially the mid to higher-end cars, the more I realize the difference between my cars and higher-end ones aren't that much. At 140 km/h my Accord coupe can be a decent FWD canyon carver but there's not a lot of roads like that, unlike in coastal Europe.

So the wait continues for that elusive Lexus sedan... ;)
 

Will1991

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But your Accord is a more sports oriented car, even with some years it should be a fun car to hoon a bit.
Mine shows a bit how old it is next to newer cars, mainly on comfort/NVH, high speed stability, braking... Specially braking (rear drum brakes)... But I'm able to average 6,8L/100km, from a car that gives me 0 problems and has a ridiculous cheap maintenance so I forgive a lot of it's shortcomings and try to jump directly into a BEV...
 

internalaudit

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To realise this vision in Europe, Toyota is planning to launch 40 new or updated electrified vehicles by 2025, across all technologies, including at least 10 ZEVs. Its hybrid electric vehicles will remain a core part of the powertrain mix meeting customers’ needs and helping drive down emissions together with other types of electrified vehicles. That has been the company’s goal ever since it launched the first Prius over 20 years ago, with the ultimate ambition to achieve zero emissions in a widespread and sustainable way.
 

ssun30

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Some details from Izoa EV (identical to UX300e).

The new PCU uses a gen4 reverse-conducting IGBT with 35% higher output power density than the HEV.
3931

The new motor has a cooling loop that passes through the rotor providing extra cooling to the motor to further increase reliability. The motor is extremely compact (just look at its size compared to the CV joint, the drive shafts are also equal-length unlike in a FWD ICEV so there's no torque steer).
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The cooling loop has a temperature-controlled variable-flow-rate oil pump to minimize pump losses.
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Toyota also readjusted their electrification plan in 2019 to reach 1 million BEV/FCV sales by 2025, 5 years ahead of their 2017 plan.

Toyota has expanded its BEV/PHV capacity to 720k units in China, the highest of any carmaker.
3934
 

ssun30

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The ChDM UX300e has two trims at ¥362k and ¥385k after subsidies. For comparison UX200 is only available in F-Sport trim at ¥302k. UX260h starts at ¥283k and tops at ¥386k (Lexus raised the price of all UX trims by ¥15k for MY2020). Like in USA, the UX200 is intentionally crippled to drive more sales to the hybrid.

Both UX300e trims are better equipped than the ¥348k UX260h F-Sport E-Four, but slightly worse equipped than the ¥386k fully-loaded trim. So UX300e offers the same value as UX260h in China in terms of features but is more powerful. The important thing here is a top UX300e is slightly cheaper than the top UX260h (the only difference betweent the two is the latter has a bigger infotainment screen and has seat memory, everything else are the same).

It's worth noting that the battery pack armor protrudes downwards. That's why they were able to integrate the full pack without raising the floor and intrude trunk space. As a result they get a 10mm (0.4in) lift but the ground clearance is still reduced from 150mm (5.9in) to 135mm (5.1in). The wheel gap differnece is quite visible if you put the two variants side-by-side. The funny thing is the UX300e (a "crossover") is now 10mm lower from the ground than the CT200h (a hatchback) and is also the lowest current Lexus product along with the GS-F and RC-F (LC is 2mm higher) and definitely the one with lowest CoG since there are 400kg of batteries in the floor.

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The C-HR EV is very highly reviewed in China. At first I expected it to get trashed for its bad value and uninspiring specs. It is widely praised for its ICEV-like throttle pedal tuning. This is quite important. Since electric motors reach max torque in less than 100ms, EVs tend to feel very 'jerky' when the driver presses the pedal. 'Jerk' is the physical term that describes the rate of change of acceleration, so the instant torque results in a worse ride and it happens at any level of throttle input (not just WOT). During my period of owning the BYD Qin, I got constant complaints from rear seat passengers that my driving is 'very unsmooth' even though my driving style have not changed.

It is also praised as the best handling SUV ever tested only held back by its high-profile tyres. But some pointed out the rear suspension is now too hard for a family car.

The car will not regen in D, only in B gear. This is also to make the transition from ICEV more natural. One of the most common complaint I see with new EV owners is that the car 'brakes too quickly and does not glide well'.

The most well-received aspect is that most of the journalists were able to match or exceed the official efficiency and endurance figures. This is already widely praised on the Corolla/Levin PHV.

When interviewed by the media, a GAC-Toyota engineer said their goal is for a traditional ICEV owner to get into the driver's seat and not feel any difference in driving feel (except the noise, of course), so nobody would get turned away by having to get used to driving a new type of car. Numbers is less of a concern, as an example they can crank up regen to crazy values and they will extract another 5% efficiency. This customer-oriented product design is such a breath of fresh air in today's numbers-obsessed EV market.

I can totally see this product trashed in the USA for not giving the 'fierce EV-like acceleration' and not having big shiny numbers to brag about.
 

internalaudit

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Unlimited mileage to 85% capacity says it all, as per Will1991.

Good to know it won't be for naught to wait this BEV evolution out.

And I thought the CT was low, lower than our 11 Accord coupe. Had it up a Rhino ramp and still had very little room to do the oil change. Will jack it up next time around.
 

Levi

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It's worth noting that the battery pack armor protrudes downwards. That's why they were able to integrate the full pack without raising the floor and intrude trunk space. As a result they get a 10mm (0.4in) lift but the ground clearance is still reduced from 150mm (5.9in) to 135mm (5.1in). The wheel gap differnece is quite visible if you put the two variants side-by-side. The funny thing is the UX300e (a "crossover") is now 10mm lower from the ground than the CT200h (a hatchback) and is also the lowest current Lexus product along with the GS-F and RC-F (LC is 2mm higher) and definitely the one with lowest CoG since there are 400kg of batteries in the floor.

View attachment 3940

The loss of ground clearance is negligible, but the execution could be better. Maybe the pics make it look like this, but I don't like thing hanging that way, I would extend the armor in lenght with a curve, boat style.
 

Will1991

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From what @ssun30 said, this should be the Lexus-ness instead of EV-ness the other brands are doing. It was really nice to read your post.

I know this is going to be a very specific question, but, is it able to regen in D using the paddles or is it mandatory to go in B to use them?

I guess it’s a similar execution to their hybrids, which I like.

@internalaudit , my Avensis stock suspension has such high ground clearance that with the right tools and some practice you’re able to do it without jacking it up 😅
 
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spwolf

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It is also praised as the best handling SUV ever tested only held back by its high-profile tyres. But some pointed out the rear suspension is now too hard for a family car.

this is incredibly useful information. It seems a lot of range improvements that Tesla has vs others is due to a lot more aggressive default mode and that is why users/reviewers can get a lot more miles out of Porsche or Toyota.

It all makes sense when you understand what type of buyers they all have, which could be quite different.

So can you share some info on miles/acceleration they got in real life tests?

and thank you very much @ssun30 , this is incredibly useful info for us that cant read Chinese media.

p.s. For UK spec Toyota's, minimum ground clearance is as follows:
Yaris: 130mm
Corolla HB: 135mm
CHR: 142mm
UX EU: 160mm
Prius PHV: 130mm

I guess a reminder that different markets have different specifications as it is and 135mm while being lower than other Toyota's in CDM, is right around where most Toyota models are in Europe.
 

krew

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20-05-04-lexus-ux-electrified.jpg

Here’s an interview with new Lexus Chief Engineer Takashi Watanabe on the brand’s EV strategy:

Even with a pure-electric drivetrain, Lexus wants to maintain its driving character — this quote is telling:

“I think EV-only makers will likely further pursue the appeal of EV-ness through traits such as sharp, seamless acceleration and instant torque, which are the benefits of using motors. I think they will become significant characteristics of cars made by those EV-only makers.
“For Lexus, though, I believe that by taking values that can only be realised through EVs and blending in the brand’s unique identity and distinctive driving taste, we will be able to create EVs that offer the one-of-a-kind originality you can only find in a Lexus… basically, Lexus-ness.”

Continue reading...


 

ssun30

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I wonder what Lexusness covers. :)

Basically, they want the ownership experience to be as close to a regular Lexus vehicle as possible. As I explained above, the goal is for the owner to get into the driver seat and forget it's an EV. Many manufacturers want to sell the 'exoticness' of BEV, Lexus wants normalcy.

While I really appreciate their approach, normalcy isn't really possible without solving the problem of range anxiety. And that's still unsolvable with today's technology.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Basically, they want the ownership experience to be as close to a regular Lexus vehicle as possible. As I explained above, the goal is for the owner to get into the driver seat and forget it's an EV. Many manufacturers want to sell the 'exoticness' of BEV, Lexus wants normalcy.

Toyota/Lexus's real triumph with their hybrids is that they have all of the same virtues as any other Toyota/Lexus, just with better mileage (usually). I think BEVs would be much scarier to consumers without that having happened.
 

internalaudit

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Basically, they want the ownership experience to be as close to a regular Lexus vehicle as possible. As I explained above, the goal is for the owner to get into the driver seat and forget it's an EV. Many manufacturers want to sell the 'exoticness' of BEV, Lexus wants normalcy.

While I really appreciate their approach, normalcy isn't really possible without solving the problem of range anxiety. And that's still unsolvable with today's technology.

I still don't understand the issue with range anxiety. The Bolt was recently tested and it went way over the 230ish mile EPA range.

"When I finally parked it(Bolt) at my home charging station, it had gone 322 miles on a single charge. Not bad for a car rated at 238 miles per charge. Even more impressive was the fact that I didn't really try very hard to get that many miles out of it. I spent plenty of time in traffic, which helped, but there were a few sections that I was moving along at 65-70 mph as well. No matter how you look at it, 322 miles out of a Bolt is pretty impressive." — Ed Hellwig Edmund's


What matters outside California and some parts of Asia that only have two or three seasons would be an EPA range for winter (say at -10C). Even the Taycan performed really well during the winter test two to three months ago. Then manufacturers will device heat pumps and other warmer niceties for BEVs bound for colder climates so winter range doesn't drop 40-50%.

I think the car manufacturers should exercise some common sense and not believe all these focus group / internet feedback and posts. Some consumers who want a 500 mile range, 10 minute 0-90% charging and also want a $25,000 USD starting price are not the target demographics. Most of these people definitely do not buy cars new and just post nonsense. I would definitely disregard these outrageous comments or wants because there will always be a compromise/interplay among technology, benefits, value proposition and pricing.

Only a really stupid marketing team would price a 300 mile BEV equal to a similarly-equipped ICEV, even 10 years from today, when BEV is still not the norm. There is added value to simpler/cheaper maintenance, fuel savings, instant torque and lower NVH. There's also that battery warranty that is at least eight years long, thanks to US regulations, that have to be accounted for where most components of an ICEV besides emissions system (again likely regulatory) are covered for a shorter period.

For many households wanting to adopt a BEV, along side an existing ICEV, range anxiety doesn't even really exist unless the family wants to optimize the cost (electricity over fuel) to run these vehicles but that almost means the ICEV will be rarely used lol. For long distance interstate/interprovincial trips, might as well just rent a fuel efficient car for like $20 USD/day. How often do these trips even happen to people who value their time (limited vacation days and cost of additional lodging days)? I sure wouldn't be trying to save money but wasting time unless there are a lot of POI/tourist attractions along the way and driving (sleep in the car for maximum savings!) trumps traveling by plane.
 
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Ian Schmidt

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I still don't understand the issue with range anxiety. The Bolt was recently tested and it went way over the 230ish mile EPA range.

Most EVs match or beat their rated range. Teslas, notably, underperform it pretty significantly, and that's the hot EV people hear about. The EPA actually had to put out a statement that they didn't think Tesla cheated on their EPA range test because the real world results were so consistently off.
 

ssun30

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