spwolf

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and yes, lowering taxes is only really good way to increase EV sales. All the markets in EU where EVs sell great, are heavily incentivizing EV sales where buying anything else makes no sense at all.
 

internalaudit

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Nice. I hope Toyota doesn't result in Tesla going BK as competition is good. Tesla did announce a price drop for all models except the Y.


The biggest difference and quite a surprise is the announcement about the battery warranty, which is for up to 15 years /1,000,000 km (621,500 miles), including 75% of initial battery capacity. We guess that the highest period/mileage of the warranty is available only in the case of the 75 kWh version, but even then, this is amazing - probably up to two times more than in the case of the competition. PSA offers an eight-year/160,000 km (100,000 miles) battery warranty.
We are not yet sure, but it seems that Toyota took a certain marketing path and intends to offer all its electric cars with a very high battery warranty. Previously, it was announced that the Lexus UX 300e was covered with a 10-year (or 1,000,000 km / 621,500 miles) battery warranty, including capacity degradation below 70%.
 

internalaudit

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Now, we just want cars wrapped around those batteries, right?

This is an industry-shaking move, prospective BEV buyers are going to wait for competition to step up their battery warranties. If that doesn't happen for many because they want a badge right away, the rest are going to wait for a Toyota/Lexus.

Toyota's got me at "15 years"! :)
 

ssun30

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The ChDM UX300e is only offered with an 8 year/200000km warranty on the battery, which is less than the 8yr/240000km for the Model S and longer than the 8yr/160000km for the Model 3.

P.S. unlimited warranty is now a basic feature for many new ChDM BEVs here. So Lexus/Toyota is not really leading the market. The rest of the world still needs to 'catch up'. However, I trust them to honor their unlimited warranty more than any local manufacturer.

EDIT: the 8yr/200000km also covers the motor and PCU (also called 'three-electric coverage'). The C-HR EV has 10yr/unlimited km warranty on the battery, but such perk is not available for the UX. However, since the battery warranty is an extension of the three-electric warranty, this basically means only 2 years of unlimited range after 8 years or 200000km has passed.
 
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spwolf

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The ChDM UX300e is only offered with an 8 year/200000km warranty on the battery, which is less than the 8yr/240000km for the Model S and longer than the 8yr/160000km for the Model 3.

P.S. unlimited warranty is now a basic feature for many new ChDM BEVs here. So Lexus/Toyota is not really leading the market. The rest of the world still needs to 'catch up'. However, I trust them to honor their unlimited warranty more than any local manufacturer.

EDIT: the 8yr/200000km also covers the motor and PCU (also called 'three-electric coverage'). The C-HR EV has 10yr/unlimited km warranty on the battery, but such perk is not available for the UX. However, since the battery warranty is an extension of the three-electric warranty, this basically means only 2 years of unlimited range after 8 years or 200000km has passed.
btw Manufacturers treat warranty as marketing expense, so it is perfectly normal to have different markets with different warranty despite parts being of same quality.
 

ssun30

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Because if batterie cooling draws cooled air from the cabin, and then goes trough the batteries, and then sent to the seats it will be heated up air... No longer being cooled seats...

Do you have any more information on how it will work?
This is a diagram from zhihu. I translated it.
4038

The battery cooling loop shares the compressor and condenser with cabin AC, but has its own evaporators. Ambient air is drawn by the blower, passes through the evaporator to get cooled, and is fed into the battery cooling duct. The battery pack never shares cooling air with the cabin, only the refrigerant. This is in low load scenario (active air cooling). At high load, the expanded refrigerant enters the battery pack directly to increase the cooling capacity (refrigerant assisted cooling).

The advantage of this layout is higher level of integration and lower cost. It's safer than liquid cooling loops since there's no risk of coolant leak and contact with dangerous lithium in an accident, and the cooling duct also acts as extra crash protection. The disadvantage is all that extra hardware is integrated within the pack, so there's less room for battery cells. In a liquid-cooled design the pack can be filled with batteries while the cooling system is completely external. Liquid cooled system also possibly has more burst cooling capacity but I'm not sure on that.

I think future E-TNGA will switch to liquid cooling if they adopt the modular 'skateboard' architecture. The current design is monolithic and requires dedicated pack design for every application.
 
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ssun30

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Does the EU version use lower profile tyres? The 18-inch wheels should give it quite impressive handling.
 

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Why does Toyota offer shorter warranty in China? Do they really drive across the country during the Spring Festival and New Year?
 

Sulu

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Why does Toyota offer shorter warranty in China? Do they really drive across the country during the Spring Festival and New Year?
This question -- in general -- was answered previously...

btw Manufacturers treat warranty as marketing expense, so it is perfectly normal to have different markets with different warranty despite parts being of same quality.
A warranty, especially a longer than normal warranty, is a marketing feature, something done to attract (reluctant) buyers. If the automaker does not have to offer this feature, it will not; but if it will help to attract new buyers, it will.
 

internalaudit

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This question -- in general -- was answered previously...


A warranty, especially a longer than normal warranty, is a marketing feature, something done to attract (reluctant) buyers. If the automaker does not have to offer this feature, it will not; but if it will help to attract new buyers, it will.
So Chinese buyers are all in on Lexus BEVs (perceived luxury brand with rock solid reliability) while Europeans are expressing some hesitations because their local cars can be perceived as equal if not better?

This was what Korean car makers have been doing, offering above industry warranties to gain market share.

To be honest, the super high mileage may be a gimmick but the years aren't. And used car shoppers who want to take advantage of the warranty will put a floor on resale values. Korean cars don't have unlimited mileage with ownership transfers in the US though.
 
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ssun30

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Why does Toyota offer shorter warranty in China? Do they really drive across the country during the Spring Festival and New Year?
I corrected myself above. The battery warranty is 10-year/unlimited range. However it is an extension of the standard warranty on the battery, motor, and power electronics. So effectively it is 2 years of unlimited range after 8 years or 200000km have passed. The extension is only for the GAC-Toyota C-HR EV. The FAW-Toyota Izoa EV and Lexus UX300e do not have it.

I encourage european buyers to read the terms carefully to understand what the 10-year/1000000km warranty really means.
 

Sulu

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So Chinese buyers are all in on Lexus BEVs (perceived luxury brand with rock solid reliability) while Europeans are expressing some hesitations because their local cars can be perceived as equal if not better?

This was what Korean car makers have been doing, offering above industry warranties to gain market share.

To be honest, the super high mileage may be a gimmick but the years aren't. And used car shoppers who want to take advantage of the warranty will put a floor on resale values. Korean cars don't have unlimited mileage with ownership transfers in the US though.
Hyundai's 10-year powertrain warranty was put in place to persuade buyers who were afraid that Hyundais were not reliable cars. Since the first Hyundai Ponys went on sale 30+ years ago, they gained the reputation of being very cheaply-built, unreliable vehicles, in addition to being not very stylish. The styling improved, as did the build quality, but the perception of being unreliable did not improve. That perception kept marketshare low.

To change the perception of unreliability, Hyundai put in place a 10-year warranty, and to control costs (the reason most automakers offer a 4- or 5-year warranty is because components last only 4- or 5- years), the warranty was made non-transferable.
 

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I still couldn't figure out what PHV Lexus is going to launch this year, according to that roadmap. They don't have any new hybrid model other than refreshed IS (unless they also count the LC convertible hybrid), so the second dot has to be a PHV right?

Could the ES E-axle PHV comes this year? Or is there a UX300h+? Both could make sense since we know both the Avalon PHV and C-HR PHV are under development, so their Lexus brothers should be in the pipeline as well.
 

CRSKTN

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I still couldn't figure out what PHV Lexus is going to launch this year, according to that roadmap. They don't have any new hybrid model other than refreshed IS (unless they also count the LC convertible hybrid), so the second dot has to be a PHV right?

Could the ES E-axle PHV comes this year? Or is there a UX300h+? Both could make sense since we know both the Avalon PHV and C-HR PHV are under development, so their Lexus brothers should be in the pipeline as well.
I think it's gotta the NX 450h+ right?
 
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