F1 Silver Arrows
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*sigh*
I wish Toyota and Lexus made closed-deck engines again. I was so happy when I saw BMW going from open-deck to closed-deck engines.
- Thread starter ssun30
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I wish Toyota and Lexus made closed-deck engines again. I was so happy when I saw BMW going from open-deck to closed-deck engines.
It is not like anyone tunes Toyota engines anymore or has access to decrypt their ECU. Closed-deck would have no benefit in this case.
F1 Silver Arrows
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GR Yaris?
Ummm... have you not seen how thick cylinder walls of the G16E-GTS are? Have you not seen Papadakis Racing make around 1000whp on a stock 2AR block, still open deck and still has the stock cylinder walls, for example the stock cylinder walls of Honda's K-series engines would've disintegrated well before reaching that power level, even the stock cylinder walls of Mitsubishi's 4B11T, which is a semi closed deck block, can't handle that kind of cylinder pressure. I understand a closed deck block is the best choice for max strength, rigidity and durability, but if you can already make open deck aluminium blocks to be strong and rigid enough to handle such high cylinder pressures then why even bother going to closed deck route, which has downsides like being more difficult to manufacture than open deck blocks and reduced cooling around the area of the combustion chamber.
They still make closed deck diesels.
So the low specific output is because of the 11.0:1 compression ratio that reduces the maximum boost they could run. Makes sense for a mostly efficiency-minded engine. The specific power and torque are very impressive for forced induction engines with such high compression ratio. However for future RX/Tacoma applications it should reduce to 10.5:1 for more power.
So the low specific output is because of the 11.0:1 compression ratio that reduces the maximum boost they could run. Makes sense for a mostly efficiency-minded engine. The specific power and torque are very impressive for forced induction engines with such high compression ratio. However for future RX/Tacoma applications it should reduce to 10.5:1 for more power.
F1 Silver Arrows
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That's the thing, with the level of engineering that Toyota puts into all of their engines, it would be cool to see them going at a closed-deck block again.
I'm not denying your other points but I want to see how much further a G16E-GTS for example could push itself had it been a closed deck engine.
Overall I'm not too impressed with the T24 like the omission of VVT-iW for better efficiency and electronic WGT for better response. The raw specs are still very high in its class. It just lacks some of the perks that come with previous Dynamic Force engines probably for cost-cutting.
The regulations limit maximum boost and fuel flow so the extra strength doesn't really help them.
G16E-GTS was meant to be used in their rally car so it could need the better cooling and lighter weight from open-deck design. Their current 1600cc I4 engine was known to overheat in stages with thin air and they lost a few races because of that.
The regulations limit maximum boost and fuel flow so the extra strength doesn't really help them.
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F1 Silver Arrows
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Good to know about all of this!!
I guess the question is, does there exist regulations on how much cooling a car can get? That sounds stupid I know, but closed deck engines can remedy their heat problems by improving cooling over the stock setup.
Do you guys remember the IS F rumor of V6 turbo hybrid? If there is a new gen IS/RC, the F could very well get a different tune of V6 turbo hybrid that we have in the Tundra, and will definitely also be in Sequoia, Landcruiser and LX.
Doesn't an AWD IS F with V35A-GTS hybrid, 550-600 PS combined and 700-750 Nm sound like something plausible?
Doesn't an AWD IS F with V35A-GTS hybrid, 550-600 PS combined and 700-750 Nm sound like something plausible?
LateToLexus
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Dear Lexus,
All-electric GX.
Slightly larger. Better tech. More luxurious interior. More comfortable seats.
An evolution in design of the overland GX460 concept.
Make it the best Lexus since the original LS400.
The demand would be insatiable.
Come with me Lexus.....
All-electric GX.
Slightly larger. Better tech. More luxurious interior. More comfortable seats.
An evolution in design of the overland GX460 concept.
Make it the best Lexus since the original LS400.
The demand would be insatiable.
Come with me Lexus.....
Naveelttil97
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That sounds heavenly. And if they find a way to add in the 10 speed automatic with LC-like shifting quickness…..? Oh boy 🤤
maiaramdan
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@Levi , I was the dreamer of this website if you remember, but honestly, that's not even in my dream, to much to dream about, Toyota won't ever tune this engine hard for the sake of longevity, that was obvious already with the MK-3 Tundra
GR Yaris G16E-GTS tells a different story, and even this one has reserve. So for the right product, TMC can do anything that deserves to be world class. Note I wrote V35A-GTS, not FTS. Or would it also be V35E? Anyway, look at 2UR-FSE tune for longevity, and see how 2UR-GSE easily makes 500 PS if not for emissions stuff.
V6TT Hybrid is a truck engine. I don't think it will ever see light of the day in midsize car or smaller.
what makes it a truck engine? by that reasoning V6TT is a sedan engine. I am surprised the LS did not come with V6TT hybrid above, but rather NAV6 hybrid under. LS 600h was LS 460 with hybrid. If V6TT can replace NAV8, so V6TT hybrid should replace NAV8 hybrid. How did they think LS 500h would sell? This engine is for GS, not even for LC, should rather have been in RC/IS, because the NAI4 hybrid is good instead of a diesel, but it lacks the "S" of "Sport".
I know the IS 500 is out only now, but maybe we can start the "IS discontinued" thread too, to be accustomed to the pain as with "GS discontinued". 1IS was the first small sedan. 2IS, IS-F saved the day, but it could have been better if Lexus made a proper coupe of it, a wagon for Europe. 3IS was faded fast, but this time RC saved the day. I don't understand why Lexus needs to "save the day". Either do it right from the beginning or scrape it for good. See V8TT.
Naveelttil97
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I agree with you. It would’ve been really nice if the IS and RC lineups mirrored each other. But, the IS500 F sport Performance having the same engine/transmission as the RCF (which is one tier above) is really confusing and, in my opinion, shows poor planning. In its competitors, the 3/4 series, A4/A5, and C class sedan/coupe mirror each other.
In a perfect world, it would’ve made sense if there was the IS/RC 300 AWD with the detuned 3.5 V6, IS/RC 350 with the 2.4T, IS/RC 500 F Sport Performance with the V35, and the ISF/RCF with the V8 or V35+Hybrid.
My perfect Lexus would be the current design IS (with rear LED turn signals), V35, the LC derived 10 speed, and a torque vectoring AWD system (similar to what can be found in the GR Yaris). It will never happen, but it’s nice to dream.
The V6TT Hybrid powertrain in the new Tundra has a completely different hybrid system (and transmission) than the hybrids in Toyota and Lexus cars. It was designed for use in trucks and consists of an electric motor sandwiched between the engine and the otherwise normal 10-speed automatic transmission; the hybrid systems in the cars replaces the normal transmission with an eCVT Power Split Device transmission (which is unlike any normal automatic transmission).
The Tundra's hybrid powertrain is only available in trucks right now with no word that it will be adapted for use in RWD cars.
There's nothing that prevents a P2 hybrid system to be used in a car. It's actually more compact than the multi-stage hybrid so it could fit in the LS/LC.
The Type 21 V35 in the Tundra and Type 17 in the LS500 are indeed different. The Type 17 is more sophisticated while the Type 21 is more for simplicity and durability. The Type 17 has better air flow thanks to double intercoolers, double intake manifolds and slightly larger turbos.
nothing that prevents it other than better performance of HSD in non truck applications.
How many times do I need to say PS hybrid does not scale up well past 300kW? Multi-stage was very well-engineered but not a good idea to begin with. One can argue with more advanced motors and PCU, PS can eventually scale up to 400kW, but P2 can be scaled to 750kW now.
The fact that most of the power goes through the electrical pathway is why PS is not good for high continuous load which includes truck and performance cars. PS is good for the exact opposite: variable load with short peak and mostly idle like urban driving.