Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[Levi]

Totally agree. I think something like "Camry Cross" with the V6, ~7" of ground clearance, wagon-esque cargo and AWD would basically be a dream car. Maybe the Crown will be similar but with premium touches and design.

Unfortunately 2GR gets replaced by T24A, so no more V6 except, V35A, which looks will be are truck only engine once the LS is gone.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

This was revealed in a reddit post 2 days ago in r/cars and r/Toyota.

Happy that it reached here too.

 

[Sebass]

Toyota Leak Reveals Corolla Hot Hatch, Land Cruiser Replacement Coming Soon

A Reddit leak offers details on upcoming Toyota vehicles in 2022 including the Corolla GRhot hatch and an all-new Sequoia that may replace the Land Cruiser.

www.gearpatrol.com

oh boy!

Those all sound like only great things. Although, I will admit that I find the Honda Crosstour to be absolutely hideous, and it's the last vehicle that I would want an Avalon replacement to be compared to.

 

[NXracer]

I'm sure you know how it works: $55k + destination + rear cargo cover + tint + floor mats = $58k+, and just about 8 months ago, those vehicles were "haveable" around $50-52k but the covid bubble sent prices soaring due to inventory shortages. I bought mine in April with an MSRP of ~$69k and paid about $62,500 before prices went crazy like they are now.

GX has been up and down during this generation (2010+) first offering just base and premium trims, then adding luxury later and restructuring the base to be cheaper with Nuluxe interior to bring down the price, then adding premium plus for 2021 and now black line for 2022. Lexus is wisely covering more and more space with the GX to do what works, and I agree with you that prices are inching up overall with product line expansion.

I also know what you mean with the GX's resurgence in the "overlanding" market but I think those folks get an outsized voice on the internet when the real GX buyer is soccer moms and dads who don't want an MDX or RX. I don't realistically think there are a lot of Land Cruiser buyers (to begin with) who are now going to GX... seems most are interested in the new Tundra, LX or waiting for the Sequoia. Of course there is the enthusiast crowd who seems to be going to the 4Runner and GX, but most of those folks buy used like you state.

Lexus also has the TX coming online soon, so in the next few years, we are likely going to see:

$50-60k RX
$55-65k TX
$60-80k GX (more models, more options, more focused for 3rd gen)
$90k+ LX (off road, 2 row, 3 row, ultra luxury, hybrid, etc

Lots of product -- across the spectrum!

I understand the crazy accessories they tend include on GXs, and MY20 and 21 but base model GXs sub MSRP/sticker 54-55k in MY20-1 were available (higher on the east and west coast for obvious reasons). Premiums could be found at the 57-8k sticker (just an fyi sticker before any discounts which you can also confirm were massive on this thing).

Now you wont find either, and the demographic seems receptive to paying a premium for a simple appearance package upgrade pushing 60k (and yes this is before ADMs)

This fits in with the whole idea of "testing the waters" theory I mentioned earlier, and/or as you mentioned "expansion of the GX lineup".

I would not be surprised as you mentioned the GX bumping 5k for a base.
The outline for the CUV/SUV spread is spot on

Toyota, like any company thrives on marketing. The GX/LX overlanding edition, the round table meet with ih8muders on "giving them a voice at the table which would be the 300 development" (ironically the 300 gets axed from the us market), GX aftermarket incorporation into their builds may seem like a vocal minority, but the new director of marketing for the GX seems to be really milking it.

I do think the present is ripe for this type of product, the only issue is will folks care in 2-3 years when this GX comes to town. Lot of unknowns with that marketing goal, and with the whole transitory phase to electric.

In reference to the LC buyers moving to the GX its not like all 3k LC buyers are going straight to the Lexus dealership and slapping down a pre-reservation deposit on a new GX. I think with the combined annual sales of the LC, which were up since the end of the current generation to about 3k, LX buyers were around 4K, most buyers are gonna switch to the LX, switch brands, or might consider a top spec GX.

With the preview of what product planners showcased with the NX and LX launches the GX is a wild card. Will they offer a mixed powertrain like the NX to cater to different price points, or being that the GX is a mid-upper range SUV singular powertrain.

A typo?

Not a typo, if you read the entire sentence where I mentioned LC buyers into GXs AND LXs.


On a side note, why are Lexus Flagship products unable to be equipped with Lexus Safety 3.0?

 

[ssun30]

Personally I really question the true performance and efficiency of Geely's regular non-hybrid powetrains based on the real world driving done by my country's car journalists and owners of the rebadged cars that came to fruition from the Proton-Geely partnership, so I'm quite sceptical about their hybrid systems.

I really hope TMC has something ready to replace THS-II that will be a big step forward in power and efficiency, but what are the right improvements and changes they should make though?

What I expect from 'THS-III':
>> Dedicated hybrid ICE (not derived from a ICEV version), lean burn, electrically or mechanically supercharged, low pressure EGR, electrified valvetrain and accessories. 46%+ efficiency and 70kW+ specific power.
>> Stay with PS, but augmented with multi-stage planetary gear set. What's really innovative about DHT Pro is how they manage to package multi-stage into a transverse axle. Toyota's multi-stage system is too long and could only be used in longitudinal layout. Even a 2-stage system could offer considerable low-speed acceleration and high-speed fuel economy gains.
>> 800V inverter for minimal electrical losses. It's becoming the new standard in EVs (replacing the 650V standard).
>> Bipolar NiMH (low-end) or solid-state Li-ion (high-end) batteries with very high power density.
>> Scalability increased from 250kW to 400kW. Their near-term plans for P4 E-Axle is only 80kW. A 150+kW E-Axle is needed to be competitive. I don't have high expectations on this since they just don't care about performance.

With these improvements we will see a RAV4 hybrid easily with 4L/100km in WLTC or 50+ MPG in EPA cycle.

 

[carguy420]

New Toyota Aygo X – New Generation of Accessible Style and Fun

All-new compact urban crossover, unique to the A-segment Spice colour concept and stand-out design adds new dimension to Aygo’s character Compact yet spacious, while offering excellent agility as befits an A-segment model Confident drive and improved visibility in a high-riding crossover Added...

newsroom.toyota.eu

IMO fitting 18 inch wheels on a car with this little power is kinda ridiculous, but then the whole design wouldn't look right if the wheels weren't this big.

 

[Gor134]

Definitely not a crossover lol. Marketing buzz words and massive wheels aside, I think it looks great for a tiny hatch.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

New Toyota Aygo X – New Generation of Accessible Style and Fun

All-new compact urban crossover, unique to the A-segment Spice colour concept and stand-out design adds new dimension to Aygo’s character Compact yet spacious, while offering excellent agility as befits an A-segment model Confident drive and improved visibility in a high-riding crossover Added...

newsroom.toyota.eu

IMO fitting 18 inch wheels on a car with this little power is kinda ridiculous, but then the whole design wouldn't look right if the wheels weren't this big.

This gives me mad Fiat 500 vibes, and I truly like it.

 

[Levi]

Not bad at all. I think it will sell quite well.

 

[NXracer]

so model below UX in select markets here we come? I wonder if this needs body spacers like the UX (Savage geese video for anybody interested) to give it that pseudo CUV status.

@Gecko 5% increase for the F platform on the Toyota Side, that 9% increase on Lexus side is easy for the GX

 

[Levi]

so model below UX in select markets here we come?

no, never happening. if ever, it would be Yaris Cross, not Aygo.

 

[carguy420]

Perodua Ativa Hybrid soon? Daihatsu Rocky e-Smart Hybrid revealed – 106 PS electric motor, 1.2L generator - paultan.org

After months of reports, leaks and spyshots, the Daihatsu Rocky e-Smart Hybrid has finally been launched in Japan. The petrol-electric powertrain is important in our local context because it is widely tipped to make its …

paultan.org

Daihatsu finally debut their own hybrid system, it's a series hybrid like Nissan's e-Power, but you'll probably never it in markets outside of Japan and certain parts of Southeast Asia as it is intended to be used in very budget oriented vehicles.

 

[ssun30]

Perodua Ativa Hybrid soon? Daihatsu Rocky e-Smart Hybrid revealed – 106 PS electric motor, 1.2L generator - paultan.org

After months of reports, leaks and spyshots, the Daihatsu Rocky e-Smart Hybrid has finally been launched in Japan. The petrol-electric powertrain is important in our local context because it is widely tipped to make its …

paultan.org

Daihatsu finally debut their own hybrid system, it's a series hybrid like Nissan's e-Power, but you'll probably never it in markets outside of Japan and certain parts of Southeast Asia as it is intended to be used in very budget oriented vehicles.

Yes, serial hybrid is the best system at very low outputs (<100kW) and low speeds. Simple and cheap, makes sense for developing nations with most low speed driving.

 

[spwolf]

Perodua Ativa Hybrid soon? Daihatsu Rocky e-Smart Hybrid revealed – 106 PS electric motor, 1.2L generator - paultan.org

After months of reports, leaks and spyshots, the Daihatsu Rocky e-Smart Hybrid has finally been launched in Japan. The petrol-electric powertrain is important in our local context because it is widely tipped to make its …

paultan.org

Daihatsu finally debut their own hybrid system, it's a series hybrid like Nissan's e-Power, but you'll probably never it in markets outside of Japan and certain parts of Southeast Asia as it is intended to be used in very budget oriented vehicles.

is this the small hybrid system left on Toyotas engines list? Quite interesting.

 

[ssun30]

is this the small hybrid system left on Toyotas engines list? Quite interesting.

No the small hybrid is 1.5L on Yaris hybrid

 

[Sulu]

Yes, serial hybrid is the best system at very low outputs (<100kW) and low speeds. Simple and cheap, makes sense for developing nations with most low speed driving.

Serial hybrid can also be the "best" system for range extenders. As EVs become ubiquitous, yet we still have range anxiety -- due to lack of EV recharging infrastructure outside of, and between, urban centres (like we have here in Ontario, Canada) -- the most obvious method to reduce this anxiety is to provide only enough EV range for daily urban driving and commuting, and include a small engine just to keep the battery charged during longer trips.

 

[carguy420]

I remember reading something about the GR Corolla was already in development before even the GR Yaris project had begun, or did I remember it incorrectly?

 

[ssun30]

Serial hybrid can also be the "best" system for range extenders. As EVs become ubiquitous, yet we still have range anxiety -- due to lack of EV recharging infrastructure outside of, and between, urban centres (like we have here in Ontario, Canada) -- the most obvious method to reduce this anxiety is to provide only enough EV range for daily urban driving and commuting, and include a small engine just to keep the battery charged during longer trips.

EREVs fell out of favor in recent years with manufacturers staying with PHVs.

The reason is in EREV 100% of the power go through the electric path way, which is less efficient than mechanical direct drive at highway speeds. Another side effect is all electric components need to be larger so cost is higher.

I remember reading something about the GR Corolla was already in development before even the GR Yaris project had begun, or did I remember it incorrectly?

I don't think so. The chief engineer of GR Yaris said "it would be a waste to not use this powertrain on other products". This suggests the powertrain was initially developed for the GR Yaris project.

 

[Sulu]

EREVs fell out of favor in recent years with manufacturers staying with PHVs.

The reason is in EREV 100% of the power go through the electric path way, which is less efficient than mechanical direct drive at highway speeds. Another side effect is all electric components need to be larger so cost is higher.

You have just condemned all EVs.

EVs will obviously run with the electric pathway at all speeds. Range-extended EVs, with small engines only to recharge the battery to reduce range anxiety is not exactly same as plug-in hybrids vehicles.

Automakers building PHVs right now are gaming the system; they are selling high power and quick acceleration, all while claiming that they are efficient and green because of the parallel electric powertrain. The ICE remains the primary drivetrain with the electric drivetrain as a supplement.

An EV with a small serial-hybrid range extender is different. The range extender is there in case you run out of electric charge between charging stations. The range extender is the secondary, supplementary drivetrain to the primary electric drivetrain.

 

[Will1991]

I believe you’re talking about two different solutions…

While ssun30 should be talking about something similar to the Nissan ePower where you only fill up with fuel, sulu is talking about something similar to the i3 REx, where you can fill up with fuel or electricity.