If I have to take a guess, isn't this our very own @F1 Silver Arrows?
- Thread starter ssun30
- Start date
F1 Silver Arrows
Expert
- Messages
- 2,335
- Reactions
- 3,778
We do have similar names. 👁👄👁 🤙🏻
Last edited:
What do you mean?Only true if you're a global expert automotive engineer specialist.
Hydrogen-powered Engine Corolla Takes on the Challenge of Transporting Imported Hydrogen at Super Taikyu Series 2021 Suzuka S-tai | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website
Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) announced today that it will enter a vehicle equipped with a developmental hydrogen-powered engine at the five-hour-long Super Taikyu Series 2021 Powered by Hankook Round 5 Suzuka S-tai, which takes place from September 18 to 19, 2021. The hydrogen-powered...
F1 Silver Arrows
Expert
- Messages
- 2,335
- Reactions
- 3,778
Agreed.
Tundra is not E-Four.
With all the hindsight it's easy to say the multi-stage is a failure since it's too complex. Undersized ICE + undersized battery + overengineered transmission. It is still a very impressive system since it can beat cars with much higher power-to-weight ratio. But to achieve that they gave the LS/LC rally car-like gear ratios which just don't match their character. I think the problem is the system is already so expensive they have no budget for a larger/newer ICE or battery pack to really give it good performance.
This is a rare example of Toyota developing a technology just for the sake of doing it. P2 hybrids scale up very well at high output applications and Toyota should know that: they've been doing it in Hino trucks and LMP1 race cars for almost a decade.
Is multi-stage a very advanced piece of engineering? Yes. But is it worth it? No.
F1 Silver Arrows
Expert
- Messages
- 2,335
- Reactions
- 3,778
It was a hypothetical example with the E-Four system being implemented in Lexus vehicles soon.
This is so true. Something tells me we're not going to see the multi-stage hybrid after this generation.
Gecko
Administrator
- Messages
- 4,905
- Reactions
- 11,833
For those of you hoping for a new V8:
LS 500/500h, no V8 since 2018
Land Cruiser 300, no V8
LX 600: Land Cruiser and LX parallel each other and we know the LX is replacing the Land Cruiser in North America
Tundra: no V8, the flagship motor is the new V35A-FTS + hybrid
Sequoia: will be the SUV version of the Tundra, so <1% chance of a V8
LC F: trademark abandoned
LS F: never actually trademarked
If there was ever going to be a new V8, it would have debuted on the Tundra out of sheer volume. It did not. With the above, there is no case or way for the LX 600 to have a V8.
2UR-GSE is the last V8, and it is in the IS 500, LC 500, RC F and GX 460 (not same tune, I know) as the swan song, probably until 2023-2024.
I would stop hoping for a new TTV8 if I was you. The Tundra debut confirms it's not happening.
LS 500/500h, no V8 since 2018
Land Cruiser 300, no V8
LX 600: Land Cruiser and LX parallel each other and we know the LX is replacing the Land Cruiser in North America
Tundra: no V8, the flagship motor is the new V35A-FTS + hybrid
Sequoia: will be the SUV version of the Tundra, so <1% chance of a V8
LC F: trademark abandoned
LS F: never actually trademarked
If there was ever going to be a new V8, it would have debuted on the Tundra out of sheer volume. It did not. With the above, there is no case or way for the LX 600 to have a V8.
2UR-GSE is the last V8, and it is in the IS 500, LC 500, RC F and GX 460 (not same tune, I know) as the swan song, probably until 2023-2024.
I would stop hoping for a new TTV8 if I was you. The Tundra debut confirms it's not happening.
F1 Silver Arrows
Expert
- Messages
- 2,335
- Reactions
- 3,778
Carmaker1 confirmed an LC with a TTV8 in it though...
I was also given insider knowledge from somewhere that it will be a rare engine, but not as rare as the Blackwing V8 engine that was there for Cadillac. So, y'all can gnaw on that too...
Gecko
Administrator
- Messages
- 4,905
- Reactions
- 11,833
If you peek at ClubLexus, Carmaker has recently been outed as quoting other pages and people as sources, me for one. I’m not as much on the “Carmaker knows all” train as I once was.
The LC F trademark was abandoned less than a month ago, so the whole project likely died since Carmaker’s “scoop.” We know the LC F was planned - it was even shown to dealers at one point. The question is when it died.
We know the whole TTV8 project was killed fairly late term, it just seems like the models it was to roll out in are being dropped from the roadmap later than planned.
The LC F trademark was abandoned less than a month ago, so the whole project likely died since Carmaker’s “scoop.” We know the LC F was planned - it was even shown to dealers at one point. The question is when it died.
We know the whole TTV8 project was killed fairly late term, it just seems like the models it was to roll out in are being dropped from the roadmap later than planned.
F1 Silver Arrows
Expert
- Messages
- 2,335
- Reactions
- 3,778
I haven't checked CL in the last ~2-3 days so if Carmaker1 has been "outed", it had to be from then to now. But before that I have seen NO evidence that Carmaker1 has been "just" quoting other people's pages. You and I both know that he has some insane insider knowledge and he was the one that gave a ton of credence to what is happening now. He has a metric ton of industry experience, and that shouldn't be taken with a grain of salt.
You're free to not follow him, but to discredit and drag him flat-out when he's not here to defend himself is disingenuous at best.
The LC F died when the trademark got killed off. That was the final nail in the coffin.
However there were a few sources corroborating what Carmaker1 said (including one that reached out to me in private, but kept it on the down low) that there was in fact a private showing in Texas with the LC and the twin-turbocharged V8 and one of them in particular tried to imply that was the case with eerie clues while they were at it. I had to piece things together.
We don't know this. Now, if the TTV8 is dead, Lexus or Toyota wouldn't have been cagey about it. They would have flat-out said that the TTV8 is dead. Note that Toyota and Lexus has always been cagey when either a product is in the works or is AT least being considered. If it wasn't, they'd have literally zero incentive to hide that. Zilch.
We'll have to see. Time will only tell.
@Gecko got it right. Even the UR series was built on the economy of scale of LC200 and Tundra/Sequoia. Over 95% of Toyota's V8s are in trucks. The LS basically serves as a testbed to work out reliability problems before the engines launch on trucks (Tundra even started with a carryover engine before they consider the 3UR mature enough). That's also what they did with V35.
So no V8 in LC300 and Tundra basically killed any hope of further V8 development. And we know their flagship trucks will be fully electric some time before 2025.
Lexus missed the time window when V8 ICEs can still be relevant and make financial sense by 2 years. The LC-F will be hopeless in today's market.
So no V8 in LC300 and Tundra basically killed any hope of further V8 development. And we know their flagship trucks will be fully electric some time before 2025.
Lexus missed the time window when V8 ICEs can still be relevant and make financial sense by 2 years. The LC-F will be hopeless in today's market.
As you just showed, it makes sense there is no TTV8 announced in trucks, if this engine was not "tested" in cars yet. But again, again as you followed up with, by the time TTV8 is tested in cars before getting to trucks, BE powertrains will likely already be the powertrain choice for top trucks. by that time even SSB could become a reality, or Toyota's new non-lithium batteries.
a TTV8 can very well be just a short term exception in the LC without follow up in other models. TTV8 it will be irrelevant for anything else if that still happens.
Gecko
Administrator
- Messages
- 4,905
- Reactions
- 11,833
If you consider the resources it would require to establish a new production line for a TTV8 for one car that is already very, very low volume, it would bring the price of a TTV8 LC to be closer to the LFA than the LC 500... probably something in the realm of $200k+ plus. Not feasible on a car that costs half that to begin with in a market that doesn't favor coupes.
There is the use case for such a V8 (LS, LC, Tundra, LX, Land Cruiser, etc) and then there is the economy of scale to make it happen (production space, budget, resources, volume, people). We know the first part is clear, but the second makes it impossible now.
The only way there was a case for this engine is if it was shared with something else higher volume. We now know that it will not be, unfortunately.
Will1991
Moderator
- Messages
- 1,585
- Reactions
- 3,224
@Gecko , what do you think we will see in the LX600 trademark? A improved 5.7L V8 until the reliability validation (perhaps 2025 due to emissions regulations) is finished with the new hybrid Tundra powertrain?
LX600 -> Improved 5,7L V8 or LC300's version of the V35A?
LX500d -> 3.3L V6 TT Diesel?
LX600 -> Improved 5,7L V8 or LC300's version of the V35A?
LX500d -> 3.3L V6 TT Diesel?
Gecko
Administrator
- Messages
- 4,905
- Reactions
- 11,833
Land Cruiser's tune of the V35A-FTS.
Not to harp on the V8 thing, but how does Lexus view what happened to the LS500( lukewarm sales and reception) and what will happen to the other Lexus models losing the V8? An isolated incident? Automotive climate changed?
With the Tundra and LC300, I assume people are going to buy both initially just due to the 14-15 year wait, but as you hear, people still lament the loss of the V8. They may just be well received vehicles and it won't matter.
With the Tundra and LC300, I assume people are going to buy both initially just due to the 14-15 year wait, but as you hear, people still lament the loss of the V8. They may just be well received vehicles and it won't matter.
I am not even sure a TTV8 can save the LS. While it is not a bad car, has (/had?) an amazing interior, the car is the least successful of any LS generation, CUVs/SUVs and BEVs are not the only excuse. If it is, this gen LS should have been LF-1, but it didn't either. As for LC, if it weighed at least 200 kg less, it would have sold way more.