Ian Schmidt

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No V8 option (while all competitors have it), cabin space (packaging of the platform), refinement (turbo lag, regression on NVH to last LS), being marketed as sporty (but it is neither as sporty as 7er nor as comfortable as an S class, just go with one lol), hybrid model very underpowered (plus the rubber banding weird sensation and high revving noise, iForce Max should solve it probably), technology and infotainment still leaves a lot to be desired. A long list to improve upon for sure.
Refinement is much improved in the 2021 (including engine noise and ride quality), and the low-end power is much better. I think it was @LS500-18 who mentioned how you'd sometimes pull out into traffic in the 18-20 LS and stomp the pedal and nothing happened. That's fixed in the 2021 (and really should be a free ECU/TCU update for the 18-20).

I don't know how you define sporty, but the 5LS drives like a car half its size on twisty roads. I maintain you can't understand the car until you fling it around some curves for a while, even though that's probably unrealistic for most owners. I'm lucky enough that the shortest route for my daily commute is very curvy, and that's one of the reasons I really like the 5LS in spite of its faults. Driving a 4LS on the same route required more effort and was occasionally terrifying, by contrast.
 

Alshamsi

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I wonder if 2.4t will be upgrade for ES, probably not for American buyers.

At some point, everything is a joke.
As a 19" ES 350 owner, I'd get the 2.4t in a heartbeat.
The v6 engine is so bad paired to the Long-geared 8-Speed, it's so low on torque.
 

LS500-18

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That's fixed in the 2021 (and really should be a free ECU/TCU update for the 18-20).
Lexus should contact all 18-20 LS owners and provide a free ECU update, but we know that won't happen. If ever they release a TSB to fix the sluggishness and occasional complete unresponsiveness off the line, let me know. I just don't think I'll buy another turbo vehicle again if I can help it. I've had two V6 twin turbo cars and the lag off the line just grates on me over time, as the majority of my driving is city driving.
 

ssun30

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Speaking of, that patent that Toyota filed last year for the 90 degree hot-V engine---what is the first application we know of that Toyota will be using it on? I know the patent showed a V8, but that's unlikely at this point. No new V6 development we know of. Would it be the 2.4T?
F33A-FTV diesel. 2.4T is I4.
 

Levi

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Lexus should contact all 18-20 LS owners and provide a free ECU update, but we know that won't happen. If ever they release a TSB to fix the sluggishness and occasional complete unresponsiveness off the line, let me know. I just don't think I'll buy another turbo vehicle again if I can help it. I've had two V6 twin turbo cars and the lag off the line just grates on me over time, as the majority of my driving is city driving.
that is where toyota's hybrid system fixes the lag, in a way more efficient and strong way than electric driven turbo, which only deletes lag, but does not improve efficiency.


side note, Lexus has no more excuse for low power, when chinese brands and now german (mercedes c range) are nor pushing over 400 ps with turbo hybrid I4.
 

ssun30

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My time in the LS 500 gave me a great appreciation for the B58, though I am not a huge fan of the Supra. It's clear that over time BMW has perfected the turbocharged 6cylinder from every angle: throttle response, power delivery, linearity, gear changes, etc. It is a magnificent engine and I hope with time, Toyota can work some similar magic on the V35A-FTS.
One thing I mentioned a while ago but I'll still bring up is the use of software-based anti-lag used by European car makers. In sport mode the ECU allows ignition timing to be slightly delayed when the driver demands boost. This creates a short burst of hot exhaust that has higher energy to spool up the turbo faster. The downside is the temperature shock it creates could impact reliability although we know B48/58 are quite reliable for European engines. The impact on fuel economy is negligible but how aggressive the manufacturer do it is limited by emissions. The reduction in spool up time is 10% to 30% depending on conditions and aggressiveness of the tune.

I don't know how widely used this 'trick' is. From my knowledge PSA/VW/BMW are known to use it (Mercedes doesn't) and BMW is the most aggressive. But this is something Toyota is very unlikely to do.
 
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mikeavelli

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I will never understand how the LS didn’t get the 5.0 option. A LS 500 F SPORT Performance would be in the garage if I can also get the luxury package in the rear.

Feedback I gave years ago was I couldn’t believe BMW made an I8 before Lexus. I always felt there was an opportunity for a real performance hybrid. Think 5.0 hybrid with 500hp getting 30mpg. Not something called a 500 making 360hp making 33 mpg.

but what do I know lol….
 

Levi

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*sigh*

I wish Toyota and Lexus made closed-deck engines again. I was so happy when I saw BMW going from open-deck to closed-deck engines.
It is not like anyone tunes Toyota engines anymore or has access to decrypt their ECU. Closed-deck would have no benefit in this case.
 

carguy420

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*sigh*

I wish Toyota and Lexus made closed-deck engines again. I was so happy when I saw BMW going from open-deck to closed-deck engines.
Ummm... have you not seen how thick cylinder walls of the G16E-GTS are? Have you not seen Papadakis Racing make around 1000whp on a stock 2AR block, still open deck and still has the stock cylinder walls, for example the stock cylinder walls of Honda's K-series engines would've disintegrated well before reaching that power level, even the stock cylinder walls of Mitsubishi's 4B11T, which is a semi closed deck block, can't handle that kind of cylinder pressure. I understand a closed deck block is the best choice for max strength, rigidity and durability, but if you can already make open deck aluminium blocks to be strong and rigid enough to handle such high cylinder pressures then why even bother going to closed deck route, which has downsides like being more difficult to manufacture than open deck blocks and reduced cooling around the area of the combustion chamber.
 

ssun30

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They still make closed deck diesels.

So the low specific output is because of the 11.0:1 compression ratio that reduces the maximum boost they could run. Makes sense for a mostly efficiency-minded engine. The specific power and torque are very impressive for forced induction engines with such high compression ratio. However for future RX/Tacoma applications it should reduce to 10.5:1 for more power.
 
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Ummm... have you not seen how thick cylinder walls of the G16E-GTS are? Have you not seen Papadakis Racing make around 1000whp on a stock 2AR block, still open deck and still has the stock cylinder walls, for example the stock cylinder walls of Honda's K-series engines would've disintegrated well before reaching that power level, even the stock cylinder walls of Mitsubishi's 4B11T, which is a semi closed deck block, can't handle that kind of cylinder pressure. I understand a closed deck block is the best choice for max strength, rigidity and durability, but if you can already make open deck aluminium blocks to be strong and rigid enough to handle such high cylinder pressures then why even bother going to closed deck route, which has downsides like being more difficult to manufacture than open deck blocks and reduced cooling around the area of the combustion chamber.

That's the thing, with the level of engineering that Toyota puts into all of their engines, it would be cool to see them going at a closed-deck block again.

I'm not denying your other points but I want to see how much further a G16E-GTS for example could push itself had it been a closed deck engine.
 

ssun30

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Overall I'm not too impressed with the T24 like the omission of VVT-iW for better efficiency and electronic WGT for better response. The raw specs are still very high in its class. It just lacks some of the perks that come with previous Dynamic Force engines probably for cost-cutting.

I want to see how much further a G16E-GTS for example could push itself had it been a closed deck engine.
G16E-GTS was meant to be used in their rally car so it could need the better cooling and lighter weight from open-deck design. Their current 1600cc I4 engine was known to overheat in stages with thin air and they lost a few races because of that.

The regulations limit maximum boost and fuel flow so the extra strength doesn't really help them.
 
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Overall I'm not too impressed with the T24 like the omission of VVT-iW for better efficiency and electronic WGT for better response. The raw specs are still very high in its class. It just lacks some of the perks that come with previous Dynamic Force engines probably for cost-cutting.


G16E-GTS was meant to be used in their rally car so it could need the better cooling and lighter weight from open-deck design. Their current 1600cc I4 engine was known to overheat in stages with thin air and they lost a few races because of that.

The regulations limit maximum boost and fuel flow so the extra strength doesn't really help them.

Good to know about all of this!!

I guess the question is, does there exist regulations on how much cooling a car can get? That sounds stupid I know, but closed deck engines can remedy their heat problems by improving cooling over the stock setup.
 

Levi

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Do you guys remember the IS F rumor of V6 turbo hybrid? If there is a new gen IS/RC, the F could very well get a different tune of V6 turbo hybrid that we have in the Tundra, and will definitely also be in Sequoia, Landcruiser and LX.

Doesn't an AWD IS F with V35A-GTS hybrid, 550-600 PS combined and 700-750 Nm sound like something plausible?
 
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Dear Lexus,

All-electric GX.

Slightly larger. Better tech. More luxurious interior. More comfortable seats.

An evolution in design of the overland GX460 concept.

Make it the best Lexus since the original LS400.

The demand would be insatiable.

Come with me Lexus.....
 
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Do you guys remember the IS F rumor of V6 turbo hybrid? If there is a new gen IS/RC, the F could very well get a different tune of V6 turbo hybrid that we have in the Tundra, and will definitely also be in Sequoia, Landcruiser and LX.

Doesn't an AWD IS F with V35A-GTS hybrid, 550-600 PS combined and 700-750 Nm sound like something plausible?
That sounds heavenly. And if they find a way to add in the 10 speed automatic with LC-like shifting quickness…..? Oh boy 🤤