Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[suxeL]

I think it has to do with production as you said. But more about production location than the start of production. I think the last rumor said the next IS would be produced in Japan. The venza and Sienna i think will be produced here in North America. I could be wrong.

Venza is an import model according to the presser

Toyota resurrects Venza crossover as new hybrid, unveils redesigned Sienna minivan

Toyota unveiled the Venza midsize crossover as well as a redesigned Sienna minivan as new hybrid models on Monday.

www.cnbc.com

 

[suxeL]

i dont think you understood what he meant by them being ok profitwise but wanting new product. It is not that hard really, he said they are profitable but still want new product. Only thing shocking here is your interpretation of it.

I guess you expect Japanese executive to say something very American, like "while Lexus dealers are humongously profitable, they still want to make more money!"? hah.

And in general, Toyota's Japanese executives have always been very direct, Toyoda has been talking about Toyota problems from the moment he took up reins. It was always honestly refreshing in the industry that is very much show, and it is not only Toyoda. I met few Toyota execs from Japan when I worked for Toyota, and they were all frank and honest, maybe even drumming up the other team too much.

In general, i dont really understand this sense of defeatism when Toyota releases a new model. What seems to be a problem? Sienna was 11 years old, why would any Lexus fan get offended for it being updated to new platform? Only things older than some Lexus cars is... other Toyota vehicles. Sienna 11 years, Yaris 10 years, Prius v 9 years, etc, etc. Sequoia, 4Runner? Land Cruisers? At least both GX and LX got deep refreshes.

I think the defeatism attitude comes from the pace of the TGNA vehicle shift. Toyotas been on fire with their product rollout since 2015 (Prius), vehicles getting Toyota Safety Suite 1 and then 2, carplay and android, while Lexus is making do with babysteps or steps that kinda leave folks scratching their head..

For instance lets take the GX and cousin 4R.
GX: makes due with the same headunit as before
4R: get a brand new headunit with both CP and AA.

Why the difference? Would the cost to upgrade the headunit outweight the benefit gained on the profit heavy GX?

 

[internalaudit]

I didn't know the RX, the UX and the 2021 LC now have the Active Cornering Assist. It seems marketing of Lexus or Toyota vehicles are dumbed down and focus on creature comforts and not on improved handling dynamics. They are mentioned but get lost in the message.

Not many competiting products have brake-based torque vectoring.

 

[Gecko]

i dont think you understood what he meant by them being ok profitwise but wanting new product. It is not that hard really, he said they are profitable but still want new product. Only thing shocking here is your interpretation of it.

I guess you expect Japanese executive to say something very American, like "while Lexus dealers are humongously profitable, they still want to make more money!"? hah.

We can agree to disagree. When answering a product-focused question, there's no reason to touch on dealer profitability unless there's something to acknowledge.

"I have no worries about the Toyota lineup, but in the case of Lexus, the cadence is an issue. So for this year, the LC convertible is new. Profitwise, it may be OK, but in this sense, the Lexus dealer body wants to see more product sooner."

Translation: "I'm not worried about Toyota, but with Lexus, product planning is a problem. We have the LC-C this year. With regard to profit, it might be OK, but dealers are looking for more product sooner." "Profit might be fine, but dealers are looking for more."

To your very point, Lexus dealers have historically been very profitable and my sense is that has changed and they are now looking for Lexus to get back on track with product so they can return to better margins.

 

[Sulu]

i dont think you understood what he meant by them being ok profitwise but wanting new product. It is not that hard really, he said they are profitable but still want new product. Only thing shocking here is your interpretation of it.

I interpret this as meaning: Our product line-up is doing well enough right now (they are still selling so Lexus is still making money) but we can do better, and that starts by refreshing the line-up with new product.

I detect more than a hint of confirmation bias from some members here. They are disappointed with the slow cadence from Lexus, and are reading between the lines (even new product introductions from Toyota are being too closely analyzed for some type of hate-Lexus meaning) and starting to point fingers.

 

[Sulu]

I think it has to do with production as you said. But more about production location than the start of production. I think the last rumor said the next IS would be produced in Japan. The venza and Sienna i think will be produced here in North America. I could be wrong.

It has to do with production-start time. Both the Venza (to be imported, so says Car and Driver) and the Sienna are to start selling this summer or fall but introduction was delayed due to cancelled autoshows. With sales starting 3 or 4 months from now, that means that at least initial production has started; these 2 models cannot be delayed much longer.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I hate to be so direct, but at this point, do you think Lexus really cares about enthusiasts anymore? I don't.

It doesn't hurt to try does it? Have we even bothered trying before?

 

[spwolf]

I interpret this as meaning: Our product line-up is doing well enough right now (they are still selling so Lexus is still making money) but we can do better, and that starts by refreshing the line-up with new product.

I detect more than a hint of confirmation bias from some members here. They are disappointed with the slow cadence from Lexus, and are reading between the lines (even new product introductions from Toyota are being too closely analyzed for some type of hate-Lexus meaning) and starting to point fingers.

Yep, I agree.

 

[Levi]

The majority of luxury vehicles are leased, at least here in the US.

It makes sense for rich/wealthy people but also companies too lease. From an ecological point of view it is a waste (but that is another topic). But leases also permit 'poor' people to get luxury/premium/... even though it is a rip-off, but they can get to use what they otherwise could not. One example is in the IT sector is Adobe.

It would still be a pity if Lexus said screw reliability/durability, anyway our cars are not sold for +10 years use time, but leased every 3 years.

In order to change cars very often, there should be something new and interesting to want to replace the (3 years) 'old' one. Unfortunately there are very few interesting cars (at least for me and when there are, they are in completely different segments).

 

[Tragic Bronson]

It makes sense for rich/wealthy people but also companies too lease. From an ecological point of view it is a waste (but that is another topic). But leases also permit 'poor' people to get luxury/premium/... even though it is a rip-off, but they can get to use what they otherwise could not. One example is in the IT sector is Adobe.

It would still be a pity if Lexus said screw reliability/durability, anyway our cars are not sold for +10 years use time, but leased every 3 years.

The buyers who are more adept to change their vehicles more often are those who are better off financially, but also those who have some financial sense as well (I believe Lexus owners to be in this boat). Not every lease out there is a BMW/Mercedes/Lexus, it is all up to the manufacturer to offer the programs. The folks that chase the $399 lease deals should be the ones buying Camrys and Accords, but they got to be fake rich.

Usually money savvy buyers are the ones to seek out a deal, and sometimes it is being at the right place and time. Right now, i've seen Tacomas being leased for as low as $250/month. Just a few years ago when Lexus was discontinuing the CT, the leases on them were incredible, when it was even less than a Corolla. 🤑

In order to change cars very often, there should be something new and interesting to want to replace the (3 years) 'old' one. Unfortunately there are very few interesting cars (at least for me and when there are, they are in completely different segments).

You seem to have a very different mindset of someone who would lease a 3 Series/C Class/A4, because in 3 years, each one of these has new features, unlike say the IS or Q50. An enthusiast would be more willing to do that than stick with one brand or car.

 

[Levi]

You seem to have a very different mindset of someone who would lease a 3 Series/C Class/A4, because in 3 years, each one of these has new features, unlike say the IS or Q50. An enthusiast would be more willing to do that than stick with one brand or car.

An enthusiast as me would cross-shop totally opposing/different cars. On the contrary I see leases (and that is the strategy I would persue in a managing position) as a tool to lock customers in.

Do you have any statistics of leases, how many come for another brand an how many stay at the same brand?

 

[LexsCTJill]

It makes sense for rich/wealthy people but also companies too lease

For me, from a wealth perspective. Something I learned a long time ago is that the most cost-effective way to acquire/obtain something is the most appropriate. IMO, something like a Lexus GX is something you buy once, for the long haul and you keep in 15 years. But something like a X5, not so sure....you lease, and get rid of it pretty quick. All that said, working 30 years and paying interest on payments for all those years is just something I could never do...I have might sights set on a Mercedes A class or a Lexus UX to replace my hatchback, the MB I would never buy, but the UX I would.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

An enthusiast as me would cross-shop totally opposing/different cars. On the contrary I see leases (and that is the strategy I would persue in a managing position) as a tool to lock customers in.

Do you have any statistics of leases, how many come for another brand an how many stay at the same brand?

I see leases as ways to get people to try your products. You might stay, you might never come back. Alfa did this to get buyers into the Giulia. If something goes wrong, just turn the car in at end of it and be done with it. I think if you work in a corporate culture, for better or worse, sometimes the car you drive is obviously part of your image. Having something new is always something seen as 'climbing that ladder'.

As for stats, I wish I knew more about it but I can only speculate based on what I read from sites and forums. That data of customers coming in or leasing elsewhere would also be intriguing to me, as I'm sure most companies have the data. I wonder if @Gecko might know more about this more.

But my feeling is the same as you guys, when your product is old, how many customers will lease the same car again? The lease only becomes appealing if you were to lower the monthly payment, and perhaps people who were driving a Camry/Accord, etc. can now lease an IS/Q50 etc. Lexus' residuals have made them historically good to lease.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

For me, from a wealth perspective. Something I learned a long time ago is that the most cost-effective way to acquire/obtain something is the most appropriate. IMO, something like a Lexus GX is something you buy once, for the long haul and you keep in 15 years. But something like a X5, not so sure....you lease, and get rid of it pretty quick. All that said, working 30 years and paying interest on payments for all those years is just something I could never do...

I see many "new" GX owners are the second or third owners. Lately, the GX is becoming more popular because many leased GXs were lightly driven during the lease term by rich suburbanite wives/moms just strolling around town. With many available on the used market, prices had gone down in some cases below the 4Runner. Outlanding is becoming a thing, and the GX is rivaling the Runner as the rig to get.

 

[suxeL]

Does anyone recall whether the MY20 refresh on the GX, was originally planned for an earlier release date. I remember reading that it was suppose to launch as we see it alongside the currently refreshed MY16 LX but that was postponed for reasons unknown?

 

[Rob Grieveson]

Not sure what to think or say to my mind the Lexus brand signifies luxury coupled with absolutely trouble free motoring. The German brands cannot lay claim to the second point. Many owners of BMW (myself included) have had expensive problems with their cars along with Audi.
So i would like to see Lexus concentrate on these two points and forget about racing and making the car sporty. That to mind is not the original intention of the Brand and that is when it was so very successful and upset the market way back in the day.
I tend to agree with the comment made by someone earlier that the new LS has tried to be too sporty in its styling (although i personally like it) and I get the point. Even today when you see one of the older models you realise in fact what a prestigious looking car it was it some how screams look at me i am special.
SUV and Trucks have really changed the market along with the likes of Tesla.
Time for a re think - on this site there has been a picture of a futuristic looking car about the size of an IS looks ok - but is it Lexus?
Very way out in its styling and when one looks at Tesla you realise how simple and clean there design work is and it is an appealing look and of course so up to date. However we do not have them in SA and i have heard there have been problems so no further comment on this car.

 

[CRSKTN]

Not sure what to think or say to my mind the Lexus brand signifies luxury coupled with absolutely trouble free motoring. The German brands cannot lay claim to the second point. Many owners of BMW (myself included) have had expensive problems with their cars along with Audi.
So i would like to see Lexus concentrate on these two points and forget about racing and making the car sporty. That to mind is not the original intention of the Brand and that is when it was so very successful and upset the market way back in the day.
I tend to agree with the comment made by someone earlier that the new LS has tried to be too sporty in its styling (although i personally like it) and I get the point. Even today when you see one of the older models you realise in fact what a prestigious looking car it was it some how screams look at me i am special.
SUV and Trucks have really changed the market along with the likes of Tesla.
Time for a re think - on this site there has been a picture of a futuristic looking car about the size of an IS looks ok - but is it Lexus?
Very way out in its styling and when one looks at Tesla you realise how simple and clean there design work is and it is an appealing look and of course so up to date. However we do not have them in SA and i have heard there have been problems so no further comment on this car.

Tesla's are a disaster in my opinion. The model 3 proportions in person are not flattering to my eye, at all. It's very weird. I keep thinking of the Homer Simpson bubble car. I saw one the other day that had some extreme black/white wrap job that didn't look bad, but especially once you sit inside, you really wonder what you're paying for. That's even before engineering choices and quality control/production issues.

 

[internalaudit]

Tesla's are a disaster in my opinion. The model 3 proportions in person are not flattering to my eye, at all. It's very weird. I keep thinking of the Homer Simpson bubble car. I saw one the other day that had some extreme black/white wrap job that didn't look bad, but especially once you sit inside, you really wonder what you're paying for. That's even before engineering choices and quality control/production issues.

Too bad other car makers honed in on the cost savings and are making most of the BEV interiors also spartan haha. Audi/Porshe haven't but VW has.

 

[Sulu]

Not sure what to think or say to my mind the Lexus brand signifies luxury coupled with absolutely trouble free motoring. The German brands cannot lay claim to the second point. Many owners of BMW (myself included) have had expensive problems with their cars along with Audi.
So i would like to see Lexus concentrate on these two points and forget about racing and making the car sporty. That to mind is not the original intention of the Brand and that is when it was so very successful and upset the market way back in the day.

Racing has many engineering research and development benefits other than making sporty cars.

The obvious benefits are: engines that are small, compact and light yet are powerful and fuel efficient; car body materials (carbon fibre comes to mind) that are lightweight yet incredibly strong; endurance racing (24 Hours of Le Mans comes to mind) tests the durability of a whole car (engine, hybrid/electrified powertrain, car body) and the endurance of the drivers (which may be affected by the comfort and ergonomics of the car).

I would not ask Toyota / Lexus to give up racing.

 

[LexsCTJill]

I would not ask Toyota / Lexus to give up racing.

Totally agree. Toyota has a long Motorsports heritage and they have most recently spent more time with their sport heritage...Lexus is a just an off-shoot