Ian Schmidt

Moderator
Messages
2,371
Reactions
4,153
The model 3 proportions in person are not flattering to my eye, at all. It's very weird. I keep thinking of the Homer Simpson bubble car. I saw one the other day that had some extreme black/white wrap job that didn't look bad, but especially once you sit inside, you really wonder what you're paying for. That's even before engineering choices and quality control/production issues.

The exterior looks of the TM3 don't bother me that much (from some angles it looks a lot like the Mazda3, which is fine), but having had extended seat time in one the interior is not a happy place to be. It makes the Corolla look like an S-Class.
 

suxeL

Follower
Messages
440
Reactions
346

Lexus seems to be posting on Youtube with their own "unique" comparison videos between the MY19s and MY20s....some are interesting and insightful for those not interested in a spec sheet, and some are interesting to show how limited there recent refreshes are (GX)
 
Messages
15
Reactions
1
JLR minus J, is seems pretty healthy, even reporting increased sales numbers YoY (3% US). Jaguar is a whole another mess, even drawing some parallels from the current Lexus.

XJ cancelled, then new program development midway cancelled, then annouced a new program is a conservative BEV
The rest of model lineup is just more of the same with no clear upgrades.

Most newsworthy models being the all electric I-pace and the crazy bonkers SV Project 8s.....

I`ll leave the parallels to Lexus up for interpretation
Seems Jag and Lex are facing the same fate.
That's why I enjoy my white IS F-Sport from 2014 as long as I can realizing that probably the show is over in future.
 

Rydo

Follower
Messages
280
Reactions
485
Speaking to Automotive News recently, Ted Ogawa, the new Toyota North America CEO has made some interesting admissions about the Lexus brand.

He said "I have no worries about the Toyota lineup, but in the case of Lexus, the cadence is an issue," Ogawa admitted. "So for this year, the LC convertible is new. Profit-wise, it may be OK, but in this sense, the Lexus dealer body wants to see more product sooner." This essentially means that Lexus needs to kick its new vehicle development into high gear to play catch-up. "

"We need to change the cadence and the product and the powertrain," he said. "Cadence is a planning concept, so that's a No. 1 priority. And then product, next to the powertrain, right now is a second order."

Ogawa also admits that the brand's rivals often rely on aggressive discounting strategies to get ahead. "Yes, product and the cadence, and No. 2 is the cost competitiveness. Aggressive incentives from German brands, in particular, are impacting the market. So we need to change the luxury market, which has been tough for us. Customers rely on the quality of our products, but dealers have issues with cadence. I can improve product and cadence because those are in my hands. But I cannot control the market, so that's very difficult, and I don't have the right answer yet for that."

Ogawa also admits that the brand's demographics are changing, which means Lexus must take action on that front as well. "Yes, our [average] customer is becoming older, so we need to rejuvenate, to make products that are more appealing to the younger generation. That is something that I will have to think about. Of course, an attractive product at an affordable price, so in the background, costs must be massively competitive. So we need to think about that, both with our suppliers and with ourselves."

Source: Automotive News
 

internalaudit

Expert
Messages
1,150
Reactions
1,138
I really think Tesla kinda shattered the myth that BEVs are still not feasibility modes of transportation but Toyota probably knows it will have its solid state ready soon and just bidding some time. Also regulations in China, US ZEV states and Europe are arm twisting car manufacturers to take BEVs seriously.

Anyone know what kind of penalty we are talking about per vehicle? There penalities should be tiered depending on C02 levels per unit, correct?


Lifting the below from someone on a generic car forum. Would China and EU also required ZEVs like some US states?


EU emission law was in 2012 and started enforcing since 2015. But got REALLY punitive this year starting Jan 1,2020
.

The US federal EV rebate scheme start in 2010.

The Cali ZEV mandate started in 1998 at 2% with 2025 at 22%
But in Cali, Toyota is pushing hydrogen as well.
 

ssun30

Expert
Messages
3,520
Reactions
7,745
Anyone know what kind of penalty we are talking about per vehicle? There penalities should be tiered depending on C02 levels per unit, correct?


Lifting the below from someone on a generic car forum. Would China and EU also required ZEVs like some US states?
We adopt the "double credit system" which targets CAFE and NEV production separately. Positive credits could be transferred (both types) or traded (only for NEV credit). Positive CAFE credits cannot be used to compensate for negative NEV credits but the reverse is allowed. Negative credits result in no direct cash penalty but stop of production/import of the highest fuel consumption vehicles in the fleet.

You can tell this policy is rigged against foreign manufacturers (imports or JV) and favors indigenous manufacturers, since the former tend to have lower average fuel consumption while the latter make lots of (crappy quality) NEVs. It is especially unfavorable to hybrids which foreign brands are strong at. It's a protectionist policy that does not really care about the real environmental effect.

Toyota and Lexus are imported into China under the same company, but most of the numbers come from Lexus. Since they were negative in both CAFE and NEV credits in 2019, they had to cease the import of high fuel consumption models like the LX570, LS350, and GS300. They are prioritizing UX300e supply for ChDM to maximize the 2020 NEV credit otherwise their current highest fuel consumption model (RX300) will be banned next year which will be a disaster (more reason next gen RX350h should come ASAP). By 2022 the UX200 and ES200 will be the only ICEV Lexus sells in China while the rest will be all HVs and PHVs for this reason.
 
Last edited:

CRSKTN

Expert
Messages
2,060
Reactions
3,403
We adopt the "double credit system" which targets CAFE and NEV production separately. Positive credits could be transferred (both types) or traded (only for NEV credit). Positive CAFE credits cannot be used to compensate for negative NEV credits but the reverse is allowed. Negative credits result in no direct cash penalty but stop of production/import of the highest fuel consumption vehicles in the fleet.

You can tell this policy is rigged against foreign manufacturers (imports or JV) and favors indigenous manufacturers, since the former tend to have lower average fuel consumption while the latter make lots of (crappy quality) NEVs. It is especially unfavorable to hybrids which foreign brands are strong at. It's a protectionist policy that does not really care about the real environmental effect.

Toyota and Lexus are imported into China under the same company, but most of the numbers come from Lexus. Since they were negative in both CAFE and NEV credits in 2019, they had to cease the import of high fuel consumption models like the LX570, LS350, and GS300. They are prioritizing UX300e supply for ChDM to maximize the 2020 NEV credit otherwise their current highest fuel consumption model (RX300) will be banned next year which will be a disaster (more reason next gen RX350h should come ASAP). By 2022 the UX200 and ES200 will be the only ICEV Lexus sells in China while the rest will be all HVs and PHVs for this reason.

Any idea on target numbers for 300e sales to hit? What's the calculation on NEV? I will Google but this might be actionable.
 

super51fan

Follower
Messages
143
Reactions
184
How does the nomenclature for the engine name work? For example, why does the V35a have an a but the G18e have an e? Also, I am assuming V35a and G18e are new engine names and don't have any significance other than to tell them apart right?
 

ssun30

Expert
Messages
3,520
Reactions
7,745
How does the nomenclature for the engine name work? For example, why does the V35a have an a but the G18e have an e? Also, I am assuming V35a and G18e are new engine names and don't have any significance other than to tell them apart right?

The first letter is displacement per cylinder. M = 500cc/cyl, G = 540cc/cyl, V = 570cc/cyl, A = 620cc/cyl. It is not related to the number of cylinders.
The number is obviously displacement.
The third letter does not have inherent meaning. Currently its sole purpose is to differentiate engines sold in China to comply with some regulations. That's why we have three identical 3.5L V6 engines (2GR/7GR/8GR) for GAC-Toyota, FAW-Toyota and Lexus respectively. But for some reason 2.0T I4s are all called 8AR-FTS. Similarly we have confusing nomenclatures like A25A, A25B, M20A, M20C, M20D, M15A, M15C even though there's no hardware difference. For any market out of China this letter is always A except for the G16E.
G16E is even more arbitrary and I guess it's to pay homage to the legendary 1.6L 4A-GE.

Toyota's engine nomenclature has always been a mess due to historical reasons. At least with Dynamic Force it's easy to tell the displacement. I guess their system is confusing because the easy system has already been taken by Nissan (which is extremely logical and intuitive).
 

super51fan

Follower
Messages
143
Reactions
184
The first letter is displacement per cylinder. M = 500cc/cyl, G = 540cc/cyl, V = 570cc/cyl, A = 620cc/cyl. It is not related to the number of cylinders.
The number is obviously displacement.
The third letter does not have inherent meaning. Currently its sole purpose is to differentiate engines sold in China to comply with some regulations. That's why we have three identical 3.5L V6 engines (2GR/7GR/8GR) for GAC-Toyota, FAW-Toyota and Lexus respectively. But for some reason 2.0T I4s are all called 8AR-FTS. Similarly we have confusing nomenclatures like A25A, A25B, M20A, M20C, M20D, M15A, M15C even though there's no hardware difference. For any market out of China this letter is always A except for the G16E.
G16E is even more arbitrary and I guess it's to pay homage to the legendary 1.6L 4A-GE.

Toyota's engine nomenclature has always been a mess due to historical reasons. At least with Dynamic Force it's easy to tell the displacement. I guess their system is confusing because the easy system has already been taken by Nissan (which is extremely logical and intuitive).
So the rumored 3.0 V6 and 4.0 V8 would also be M engines?
 

mikeavelli

Moderator
Messages
7,020
Reactions
15,592
Thanks, the explanation of why the LFA has a single clutch makes sense, but I have heard a lot of people who have driven it say that the shifts feel to slow.
And... wait, wait, wait... You reviewed an LFA? did you drive one? If so, I am both highly jealous but also curious to know if you found the transmission slow.

I have as well. As it was explained the LFA was to give the driver as much feeling as possible. A manual was never on the table. Dual clutch was discussed but they were seen as faster but smoother, taking away from "feel". And its true. Take a PDK Porsche 911 Turbo for example. Best auto on the market, dual clutch and shifts so smooth its shocking. In comparison driving the LFA, the car SHIFTS, it makes you feel something is about to happen each time. I've driven one around Las Vegas in the streets and it was a bit much but the LFA was meant for the track.

As I've gotten older, to me there isn't much of a right or wrong answer to vehicles at this price point. It's all about enjoying the why's behind the choices made and what makes them different. Could the LFA have been faster with a dual clutch? Absolutely. Would it have won all the praise and been chosen as Clarkson's favorite car? We will never know...
 

James

Founding Member
Messages
648
Reactions
1,168
So trying to do some guesswork with Lexus which is near to impossible I know. Assuming life gets back to normal in 2021 it looks like new NX and refreshed LS. So In 2022 are they really going to release a brand new LF1 SUV, a new LX, and a new RX? That seems like a lot of SUV's in just 1 year rt? Not complaining about new models but just seems like a lot in the SUV segment if that is true.
 

spwolf

Expert
Messages
3,536
Reactions
3,452
So trying to do some guesswork with Lexus which is near to impossible I know. Assuming life gets back to normal in 2021 it looks like new NX and refreshed LS. So In 2022 are they really going to release a brand new LF1 SUV, a new LX, and a new RX? That seems like a lot of SUV's in just 1 year rt? Not complaining about new models but just seems like a lot in the SUV segment if that is true.

Probably refreshed ES by then too. UX as well.
Plenty to come in next few years, and as 80% of their sales are SUVs, expect more SUVs.
 

suxeL

Follower
Messages
440
Reactions
346
Rumor in the LC-F thread is that the programs been shelved. the V8 though may live on in Toyota pickup products though, and I assume anything above the 100k mark in lexus
 

spwolf

Expert
Messages
3,536
Reactions
3,452
Rumor in the LC-F thread is that the programs been shelved. the V8 though may live on in Toyota pickup products though, and I assume anything above the 100k mark in lexus

We can just say it is for L vehicles, stop this stupid price nonsense

V8tt is being built for LC, LS, LF1 and LX.
Yes these cars are expensive already.
 

James

Founding Member
Messages
648
Reactions
1,168
We can just say it is for L vehicles, stop this stupid price nonsense

V8tt is being built for LC, LS, LF1 and LX.
Yes these cars are expensive already.
Yeah I mean wouldn't it make sense budget wise or money wise to have multiple models that can have this engine. i agree I doubt they are going to not do the LCF.

On a side note man looking from say Lexus Website models to you know Audi or BMW damn we need new models and we need them fast! I know the car world is slow compared to every day life but let's go Lexus we need at least 4-5 refreshes! 2021 and 2022 need to be major years for Lexus.