Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

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internalaudit

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Why can't Toyota come up with high enough performance, dynamic, fuel efficient and reliable Lexus hybrids that aren't priced like the LC or LS?

I'm not talking about the hybrid max which seems to be geared towards SUVs/trucks for towing capacity.

I don't even need 400 HP, I just want something really fun to toss around, fuel efficient and with more than an open differential. I guess people who don't experience winter and heavy downpours really don't care and are okay with open diffs.
 
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internalaudit

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ssun30 said:
"Our data show that there's not enough demand for a high performance, fuel efficient, and reliable hybrid product from our customers"
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LOL. I am still leaning towards Toyota and Honda just from an overall reliability standpoint but BMW has gained such a following with its B58. I think it bests many powertrains out there and even if carbon deposit builds up, it will probably be noticeable only above 150,000 miles, at which time the first two owners would have replaced it with another vehicle.

Only issue with the B58 is even if its sip fuel on the highway at 70 to 80, it's still almost double the fuel consumption compared to what I get driving my CT200h gently.

If anyone can come up with a 35-40 US mpg fun HEV with a more advance differential, I'm sure there will be takers like me. At that point, there would be little reason to go for a BEV until battery technology has significantly improved. Sure it won't be for the car people or the fuel misers but at least capture the segment that cares about both practicality and drivability.
 
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qtb007

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internalaudit said:
LOL. I am still leaning towards Toyota and Honda just from an overall reliability standpoint but BMW has gained such a following with its B58. I think it bests many powertrains out there and even if carbon deposit builds up, it will probably be noticeable only above 150,000 miles, at which time the first two owners would have replaced it with another vehicle.

Only issue with the B58 is even if its sip fuel on the highway at 70 to 80, it's still almost double the fuel consumption compared to what I get driving my CT200h gently.

If anyone can come up with a 35-40 US mpg fun HEV with a more advance differential, I'm sure there will be takers like me. At that point, there would be little reason to go for a BEV until battery technology has significantly improved. Sure it won't be for the car people or the fuel misers but at least capture the segment that cares about both practicality and drivability.
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The Camry's 5th gen hybrid and 2.5L in a Corolla would be a great little runabout. ~230hp and easily return 45mpg when driven reasonably. The problem is pricing. An AWD Corolla hybrid SE w/ premium package is already a $30k vehicle. Something with uprated diffs and engine is at least a $34k vehicle. The improvements that come with a real GR car (+70hp, big brake kit, wide body) start looking like a bargain for another $6k. I also think that $35k range is where a lot of crossovers start entering the equation. That's the defacto car these days when you get to the $35k range and there's going to be a lot of people thinking about the additional flexibility that they get by jumping to the larger Rav or the dozen other CUV options for $35k.

I think the other side of it is just how hybrids feel. I think the modern ones feel peppy and do drive really nicely as far as passing power, but they don't feel like sports cars and definitely don't put the numbers up on 0-60 -- which is really important for a lot of people buying sporty cars.

FWIW, Toyota has been using this spring loaded side gear on the differentials for a while. It is a spring washer on the back of the gear that the axles spline into and provides a little resistance to the axles spinning at different speeds. Essentially, it raises that ceiling a little bit for the torque differential required to allow the diff to "open". Not an LSD by any means.
 
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internalaudit

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qtb007 said:
The Camry's 5th gen hybrid and 2.5L in a Corolla would be a great little runabout. ~230hp and easily return 45mpg when driven reasonably. The problem is pricing. An AWD Corolla hybrid SE w/ premium package is already a $30k vehicle. Something with uprated diffs and engine is at least a $34k vehicle. The improvements that come with a real GR car (+70hp, big brake kit, wide body) start looking like a bargain for another $6k. I also think that $35k range is where a lot of crossovers start entering the equation. That's the defacto car these days when you get to the $35k range and there's going to be a lot of people thinking about the additional flexibility that they get by jumping to the larger Rav or the dozen other CUV options for $35k.

I think the other side of it is just how hybrids feel. I think the modern ones feel peppy and do drive really nicely as far as passing power, but they don't feel like sports cars and definitely don't put the numbers up on 0-60 -- which is really important for a lot of people buying sporty cars.

FWIW, Toyota has been using this spring loaded side gear on the differentials for a while. It is a spring washer on the back of the gear that the axles spline into and provides a little resistance to the axles spinning at different speeds. Essentially, it raises that ceiling a little bit for the torque differential required to allow the diff to "open". Not an LSD by any means.
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I think there are some like me that are fine with a 6 seconds 0-60 as long as the fuel economy is 50% more than say the BMW B58 both in city and highway driving.

I don't want to be spending $5,000 CAD on gasoline just driving to and from work.

I also want torque vectoring differential because that helps with traction, control and performance, the safety aspect is a bonus. I am not mechanically inclined but I've seen a lot of videos or discussion on the weakness of open diffs, with torque/power being transferred mostly to the spinning wheel that's lost traction. I couldn't care less about 64K LED lighting, I just want a better and safer vehicle, especially when we have real winters here in Canada.

People complain about the drone of the eCVT but I don't even notice in my CT200h maybe because the engine is louder than the eCVT.
 
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I think the main problem they have now is battery cost. Despite their extensive experience in hybrids, Toyota never managed to meaningfully reduce the per kWh cost of batteries. The other components of the hybrid powertrain are now cheaper to produce than ICEV powertrains with comparable output. The need to keep battery cost down meant most of their HEVs have undersized and underpowered batteries. 1.3 kWh on the RX500h and 1.1 kWh on the LC500h are laughably small, in fact they are smaller than a lot of 48V mild hybrids nowadays. Their PHEVs are performance machines because the battery is not holding the car back, but at very steep prices.

At least for the NA market the new battery plant should lower the cost of their HEV/PHEVs a lot. This will allow them to put bigger, more powerful, lighter batteries in their hybrids. If we believe their presentations made during the ICE workshop, their future hybrids should have 1/3-1/2 of their power from electric. This means a Camry hybrid would be making 270PS-360PS with the new batteries. But knowing Toyota, the mostly likely outcome is they will just keep performance and prices the same, and make extra profit. They are not the kind of company that passes cost reduction benefits to customers.
 
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carguy420

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ssun30 said:
But knowing Toyota, the mostly likely outcome is they will just keep performance and prices the same, and make extra profit. They are not the kind of company that passes cost reduction benefits to customers.
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One of the reasons why Toyota can just shrug off every financial crisis lol.
 
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Soon, the RC and IS are gone, and so the LC. LS will continue, but it is not like it sells, and ES will get an update but nothing new. In one year the lineup will be dead, except the the usual NX, RX, and GX and TX in NA. The rest is UX, LBX, LX and RZ. One step from being a SUV brand.

Just don’t see what the Lexus GR can stand for in such a lineup.
 
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Levi said:
Soon, the RC and IS are gone, and so the LC. LS will continue, but it is not like it sells, and ES will get an update but nothing new. In one year the lineup will be dead, except the the usual NX, RX, and GX and TX in NA. The rest is UX, LBX, LX and RZ. One step from being a SUV brand.

Just don’t see what the Lexus GR can stand for in such a lineup.
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The LFR is the brand’s last hope, and if they mess it up, there will be nothing to look forward to in Lexus’ future performance lineup.
 
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Levi said:
Soon, the RC and IS are gone, and so the LC. LS will continue, but it is not like it sells, and ES will get an update but nothing new. In one year the lineup will be dead, except the the usual NX, RX, and GX and TX in NA. The rest is UX, LBX, LX and RZ. One step from being a SUV brand.

Just don’t see what the Lexus GR can stand for in such a lineup.
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Except the IS has ANOTHER refresh but apparently it's the new 2.0LT. Just another lazy attempt imo, they've been dragging this platform for 20 years now.
 
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Kelvin2020 said:

Acura Delays EV-Only Future, Considers Adding Hybrids | Carscoops

Honda currently offers hybrid versions of the Accord, CR-V, and Civic
www.carscoops.com

Even Acura knows to pull back before it’s too late🤦🏻‍♂️Do something Lexus!
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The reason that kept my wife and me from looking at Acura was its complete lack of hybrids. My wife is (was) a Honda fan but Honda's lack of affordable plug-in hybrids, not to mention that Honda only offers the hybrid powertrain on its highest, most-expensive trims turned her away from Honda hybrids. She has now switched to the Prius Prime and is happy with it.
 
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