Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I think most brands have given up competing against Porsche for the flagship 2 door 2+2 market. The 911 is just too dominant. This is not a market where value matters, which is the strongest point of LC (despite of its seemingly unreachable price by Lexus standards). BBA's figures are inflated by the so-called 4 door coupes which are themselves going out of fashion, but they know well the 2 door versions aren't selling.

Your analysis doesn't make sense because the LC is not really a 911 competitor. Can it handle as well as a 911 on some occasions? Absolutely. But it wasn't a 911 competitor and everyone who kept perpetuating this narrative were fooling themselves. The LC was meant to compete against the 6-Series, S-Class Coupe, GranTurismo, DB11, and the Continental. All of those cars are dead but the Continental and the LC (okay sure the GranTurismo is still soldiering on but it costs an obscene amount of money for middling performance so I don't really care). The 911 on the other hand, went head-to-head against the AMG GT, F-Type, and the Corvette.

This also doesn't make sense because you had the C-Class/E-Class/S-Class Coupes selling like hotcakes. It was the 4-Door Coupes that were saturating the market. Mercedes-Benz just decided to kill everything off and consolidate models, but even then they STILL have multiple coupes. The CLE, SL, AMG GT, and yes, even the ONE are all coupes that they offer.

In addition, BMW is also successful with their coupes as well. They're selling plenty of Z4s, 2-Series, 4-Series, and 8-Series coupes. The 6-Series died because BMW was lazy and thought marking up the car from being a 6-Series to an 8-Series as well as slapping a 30k price premium would print money for BMW, but it didn't. In fact, it started selling less, but it's still not bad.

Lexus having ONE coupe is nonsensical. The LFR is a LFA successor and only replaces the LC as a "flagship" model. However, the LC has an important role to play by attracting customers who reside in higher income brackets, without having to shell ~200-300k for a supercar. Having the LFR and the LC as a perfect one-two punch at the top is what Lexus needs. The RC is perfect to have for more entry-level Lexus customers. 3 Coupes sounds perfectly reasonable to me, Lexus just needs to give these cars competent powertrains and they will sell. We have seen the resurgence in sales for enthusiast Toyota and Lexus vehicles due to a restored wave of hype and respect for these two brands. All of that, was thanks to enthusiast-minded and passionate executives who displayed that Toyota and Lexus have the gravitas to build excellent performing cars while still nailing their original mission. Sales only dwindled because Toyota and Lexus didn't bother giving the cars the necessary updates... like a manufacturer is supposed to do... hence a decrease in sales in the enthusiast and luxury markets.

If there was a hypothetical "GC" as a fourth model, then you'd have a point with over saturation. But IMHO, Lexus will be pricing buyers from a lower price bracket out if they consolidate the LC and RC.

EDIT: I was watching Kirk's video on this new Lexus coupe (I know... I know... don't give me sh*t), and he was implying that the LFR is replacing the LC and RC, which made me laugh. If what he's saying is true, God help Lexus.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I'd be surprised if the next decade didn't see Porsche have a demographic crisis.
Can't buy your way out of death, and the 9/11 is a car with particular social associations that I've seen young people not too hot on.

I disagree. As those people age they will have a newfound respect for the 911. This is true for every generation.

The 911 will always be popular, so long should Porsche actually give a damn about the car. Just like how Chevrolet continually breathes life into the Corvette platform. It's still the best-selling sports car in its price level in the United States of America.

 

[CRSKTN]

Nah, people said the same thing about SUVs and every young person I know doesn't want one.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Nah, people said the same thing about SUVs and every young person I know doesn't want one.

That's the thing, they're young. Once they age a considerable amount of people will want SUVs. Also, the enthusiast and luxury market don't overlap with the regular, NPC market.

Also, most young kids don't want to drive for some inexplicable reason, but I digress.

 

[dylanfoos]

I feel like the only people who would be debating this are people who can't really afford an LC...?

LC is completely superior in every way outside of raw performance of the RC F Fuji/Track Edition. Even then, would you rather spend $100k on an LC or an RC F

Well you are right, I cannot afford an LC 😂.

 

[CRSKTN]

Nah these are teenagers and university age.
Same thing people said about becoming more conservative with age.
Just confident platitudes.

Also these kids love driving. How much of social media and youtube is automotive stuff?

That's the thing, they're young. Once they age a considerable amount of people will want SUVs. Also, the enthusiast and luxury market don't overlap with the regular, NPC market.

Also, most young kids don't want to drive for some inexplicable reason, but I digress.

 

[bogglo]

So the LFA was originally Lexus Future Advance then became Lexus F-Sport Apex.
Now we have LFR Lexus Future Racing will it keep that meaning?

I agree lexus need to focus on continuity with their cars, it will also make the marketing guys Job easier.

 

[Ali Manai]

EDIT: I was watching Kirk's video on this new Lexus coupe (I know... I know... don't give me sh*t), and he was implying that the LFR is replacing the LC and RC, which made me laugh. If what he's saying is true, God help Lexus.

No he said that the consolidated coupe would have a lower starting price and it was somewhat reflected in design and according to best car it would share it's chassis with the lfr or parts of it (as someone had mentioned on this forum a while ago including the supposed next gen supra)

 

[supra93]

 

[RAL]

nix the politics … thanx!

 

[Gor134]

Wonder if the rumours are confusing the RC/LC becoming one with the Crown Coupe? I can imagine Toyota having the Crown Coupe separate those two models, but not so much Lexus succeeding the two with one. The LC is too special to be replaced with a lesser model.

 

[spwolf]

All I know is that right now politicians and CEOs will say whatever they want and there is no real consequences if they miss the fabricated target. BEV sales in the US are flat year over year right now anyway.

I'd like to see the free market decide on what customers want instead of govt interference with major taxpayer handouts all over the place.

Sometimes I wonder if the transition to BEV is actually for the environment or the money?

BEV sales worldwide grow like crazy. TMC is not doing it for fun, they are doing it because they have to.

Worldwide BEV sales results in Q1-Q2 2023:

• Tesla: 889,015 (up 57% year-over-year)
• BYD (cars): 616,810 (up 91% year-over-year)
• Volkswagen Group: 321,091 (up 48% year-over-year)

Top All-Electric Car OEMs By Sales In Q2 2023: Tesla Vs. BYD

Let's take a look at the global sales results of the all-electric cars in Q2 2023 by the largest manufacturers (OEMs) - Tesla, BYD and Volkswagen Group.

insideevs.com

Even in US, it is growing fast:

Nearly 300,000 new electric vehicles (EVs) – full battery-electric vehicles – were sold in the U.S. in Q2, a record for any quarter and an increase of 48.4% from Q2 2022. Tesla, again, was the largest seller of EVs in the U.S., with more than 175,000 sold, an increase of 34.8% quarter over quarter. Sales growth at Tesla, and the EV segment overall, was aided by sizeable price cuts by some automakers (Tesla, really) and incentive levels well above the industry average. In June, the average price paid for an EV was down nearly 20% year over year. EV share of the U.S. market in Q2 was 7.2%, up from 5.7% a year ago and down from the high in Q1 of an upwardly revised 7.3%.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q2-2023-ev-sales/

But China especially it is really a problem for all automakers, they are all worried that unknown chinese brands will walk over them. China is huge market for all luxury car sales, biggest in the world.

This is why Lexus has announced going all BEV by 2035.

 

[qtb007]

Looking at first half sales, there better be some enormous margin in the RC and LC. They've moved less than 1700 units in the US... combined... for the first 6 months of the year. You people asking for more coupes are crazy. People don't want them (from Lexus, anyway).

 

[Gecko]

From conversations with dealers and friends at corporate, LC sells consistently and they don't have a problem getting rid of them. It has been a great halo product for Lexus.

RC is another matter, but it's now 8 years old with no major changes so Lexus gets what they deserve there.

 

[Gecko]

RC + LC Render

Is this supposed to be BEV, PHEV or HEV? Or all 3?

I know it's just a render but it doesn't look particularly premium to me... more like a Celica or 3rd gen GR 86. I would hope for something better looking than the LC, but that's admittedly hard to do.

 

[Gecko]

Wonder if the rumours are confusing the RC/LC becoming one with the Crown Coupe? I can imagine Toyota having the Crown Coupe separate those two models, but not so much Lexus succeeding the two with one. The LC is too special to be replaced with a lesser model.

I forgot about the Crown Coupe rumors.

There are so many rumors about Toyota/Lexus coupes that I feel like there has to be some confusion. So far, we've heard:

• A100 Supra
• Crown Coupe
• 3rd gen GR 86
• Celica return
• BEV MR2
• SC revival (I'm calling it that for now 😅)
• LFR

Co-developing Supra and SC midsize coupes would make sense just as it did before. GR 86 at entry level, LFR as the halo. Not sure we'll get more than that.

 

[CRSKTN]

No he said that the consolidated coupe would have a lower starting price and it was somewhat reflected in design and according to best car it would share it's chassis with the lfr or parts of it (as someone had mentioned on this forum a while ago including the supposed next gen supra)

https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/threads/lexus-racing-megathread.4093/post-70236

I feel like they have been communicating this new approach for a while now.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

No he said that the consolidated coupe would have a lower starting price and it was somewhat reflected in design and according to best car it would share it's chassis with the lfr or parts of it (as someone had mentioned on this forum a while ago including the supposed next gen supra)

Yeah but it prices out RC buyers and LC buyers will have to buy something that is lesser than what they can normally afford.

Just keep the RC and LC.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I forgot about the Crown Coupe rumors.

There are so many rumors about Toyota/Lexus coupes that I feel like there has to be some confusion. So far, we've heard:

• A100 Supra
• Crown Coupe
• 3rd gen GR 86
• Celica return
• BEV MR2
• SC revival (I'm calling it that for now 😅)
• LFR

Co-developing Supra and SC midsize coupes would make sense just as it did before. GR 86 at entry level, LFR as the halo. Not sure we'll get more than that.

I heard MR2 should be a hybrid should it arrive at the end of this decade/beginning of next decade.

Here's the question though, do you think Toyota is going to be selling all of these coupes at the same time? Even during economic downturns? Is Toyota finally trying to establish continuity here or are we going to see them kill off a car or two? Granted, Toyota did make this many coupes back in the day, but are we in the same economic position as we were ~30-40 years ago?

I personally would LOVE to see 5 coupes in the Toyota lineup, but something tells me a few models will die. I think the GR86 and the GR Supra are way too loved to die, which makes me think the Crown Coupe/Convertible will be a Lexus in North America and other markets that are not Japan. Also if the Celica is an EV, and the MR2 is an EV, there will be a lot of overlap. I postulate that building a Celica EV is much easier than a MR2 EV, so as a result, the MR2 wouldn't be a thing, thus leaving Toyota with 3 coupes. To me, this sounds like a more plausible route for Toyota to take.

 

[Gor134]

Another scenario I can see is GR86 and Celica being the same car, with Celica being given to the EV version.