I agree with you. I am just not sure on the viability of a Crown Coupe -- maybe it works as a luxury coupe, but shouldn't that fall under Lexus? Especially since Lexus is now more global? What is the real market for a Toyota luxury coupe (in an SUV-crazy market like this, no less)?
Agreed. For the same reason this is why I'd want the Crown Sedan here, but in the form of a Lexus GS. It makes perfect sense.
Lord, just let me be responsible for product planning at Toyota/Lexus. I'll still do a good job at managing profits too I promise. 😫
I know you're pretty keyed in on the A100 Supra rumors. What is the latest? That's going to be a Toyota developed car, right? No more BMW? If so, it would have to share development costs with an RC or SC or Crown Coupe or something because that's an impossible business case on its own.
I'll go from the top to give context to everyone.
~2 years ago A70TTR (who was the engineering liaison for the A90 GR Supra project and was an absolute beast when it came to leaks, so much so that he was only off once or twice) said that the A100 was in the planning stages and they were fetching ideas from potential customers and current buyers of what they wanted to see in an A100 GR Supra. This was absolutely insane to hear because at that point the A90 was at the end of its second model year, clearly indicating that the A90 has been a roaring success for Toyota. Anyways, I digress.
Specifically, A70TTR asked what would people think if it was an all-Toyota project albeit with some compromises (read as, no inline-six, and is a hybrid).
Most people either wanted the A100 to be a collaboration with Mazda (utilizing their inline-six),
or they wanted it on being an all-Toyota product (which would use a V6). I was one of the few people who loudly rooted for the current partnership as I am a staunch believer that it is a match made in heaven and Toyota should continue soldiering on with BMW and make some amazing products together. Most of all, they could have their hands on the B58 even more so than they have before. It seemed like we were able to make some noise as a result.
We haven't really heard from him talk about the A100 since as he has moved to Lexus working on F products.
Fast forward to today, and I've heard
two routes that could be possible.
1)
Continue with BMW. Basically what
@ssun30 mentioned, Toyota could be considering making serious improvements on the current platform which is bespoke for the GR Supra and the Z4. They'd do some more work on the B58 and implement a mild-hybrid system (thus Toyota can still stick to their promise of having an all-hybrid lineup by 2025, though this will happen post-2025). To put it simply, it'd take this car and make it even better than it already is. I should add that it would remain a two-seater as well.
But there are two issues. First, BMW wanted to stop with the Z4 after the E89, and only created the G29 so they could please Toyota and codevelop a platform that they wanted in the first place. They want nothing to do with the Z4 past the G29, which breaks my heart. So, the question is, what BMW model would Toyota be codeveloping with next? No option really looks good for Toyota as all new BMWs with the CLAR platform are very porky. Second, if Toyota is content with the current platform, but BMW doesn't want to continue, where would they build it? Motomachi? Magna Steyr? All of these are relevant questions. The only thing that makes sense to me is if Toyota were to perhaps make heavy modifications or make a similar platform using their own components but still licence or also make heavy modifications to the powertrain/drivetrain as well.
2)
Toyota-only development (yup, no Mazda codevelopment here). The A90 GR Supra as well as the GR86 were the perfect cars to relaunch Toyota back into the enthusiast space. Like how the next GR86 will eschew Subaru from the entire development process as the latter seeks to recuse themselves from building sporty cars, Toyota could pull the same move with the A100 GR Supra and develop it on their own.
I cannot stress this enough, the reason why Toyota would now develop on their own is that they did an excellent job messaging the truth, especially with how fickle the enthusiast community can be and how only they seem to appreciate Toyota sports cars only after they're out of production, which does no good for Toyota. After the initial period where people were all up in arms that these were codeveloped products (as we saw with the 86 and GR Supra), buyers realized Toyota had a point and shockingly obeyed to their terms and thus ended up buying their cars, and the b*tching soon ended. Toyota's terms being, it makes no point for them to build something and put their heart and soul into a car, only for people to not appreciate it while it's on sale and have potential economic downturns exacerbate the lack of sales. So, they'd build these codeveloped cars and they EXPECT people to buy them if they ever wanted to convince Toyota to get back into the sports car game again. At the end of the day, no matter how much a car manufacturer wants to build cool products, a car manufacturer's job is to make money. Now we've seen what has happened. There are atrociously long wait-lists for anything badged as a Toyota or they're slapped with mark-ups. Granted, they're exceptional vehicles which has lured customers, but they're especially now paying attention to Toyota as a brand and desire for more product from them. How fascinating, to have a manufacturer be candid with their buyer base, and give them the realities of the automotive industry, only for their customers to listen to them and support them further. If this isn't a symbiotic relationship then I don't know what is. Again, I digress, but I thought this was a very important bit to add.
All right let's get to the nitty-gritty. Now that Toyota can develop on their own, like you said
@Gecko, they could develop the A100 GR Supra with a comparable Lexus model. However what I was told was that it won't be codeveloped with a Lexus that is riding on an improved GA-L platform, rather,
it is going to be codeveloped with the LFR which would be riding on a platform dubbed as the TNGA-A platform.
Hear me out.
Apparently in this possible second route, Toyota is going to take the Lexus LFR platform, strip every luxurious element out of it, and reduce the amount of premium materials used for the construction of its body, and implement a turbo-hybrid V6 powertrain. The LFR would be this monster with all sorts of light-weight materials, a luxurious interior, and a twin-turbocharged V8 hybrid, whereas the A100 GR Supra is this stripped out, more "regular" version of the LFR that's equipped with a turbo-hybrid V6. If the LFR would cost ~200-300k USD, then the A100 GR Supra would cost ~100k USD. This will remain as a two-seater, but it will go in a completely different direction from every Supra before it, just like how the A90 GR Supra made some departures from previous generation Supras. Unfortunately, this new one will cost like how the A80 did in the 90's, and will not be the bargain behemoth like the A90 was.
LMFAO as I'm writing this, some of my neurons fired and gave me the idea of "oh, perhaps I should check SupraMkV.com", only for me to be bombarded with a whole load of likes/reactions on the A100 GR Supra thread and post updates for other threads. Though people were liking my posts from months ago, I thought to myself why not take a look at the latest posts on the A100 GR Supra thread and look what I find.
Well, you heard it from the man himself. The legend emerged from the shadows. I purposely ignored rumors the GR Supra "EV" rumors as I felt it was utter BS because the thought of it being an EV is sacrilegious to me. Well, turns out it was actually true, Toyota was planning it but looks like my manifestations of the GR Supra not becoming an EV was stronger. 🤣🤣
So, there ya have it. Hope this answers your questions
@Gecko. In short, it's either a continuation of working with BMW or doing it on their own by utilizing the LFR platform. Both routes are radically different in execution but should still create an excellent successor to the A90.
I watched Kirk's video which included some translation from Best Car on that white coupe render and it notes a lighter revised version of GA-L with the V35A-FTS. A hybrid too, I think? Makes sense on paper, but Lexus currently sees the V35A as their flagship engine and nothing under the LS/LX has gotten it so far... so would it actually go into a Supra or SC? Or is Lexus going to finally do something different for flagship models? So many "what ifs?" to consider.
He read off from the magazine that it'd be the TX powertrain although with an actual torque converter and not a CVT.
I think the V35A-FTS would be a great fit for the IS/RC and they should bring a detuned version of the twin-turbocharged V8 into Lexus' flagship products.
