Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

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CRSKTN

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mikeavelli

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The thing is if you talk to executives at any energy company they will be honest and say there is simply no way to power all those cars. The government is missing this key point.

Toyota has really done due diligence stating we need to look at and use all options not just BEV. I really salute them for that.
 
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ssun30

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A single Tesla Mega Charger draws 750kW or equivalent to 5 super chargers. So supporting the 200 million or so trucks around the world is like supporting 1 billion passenger cars. Actually, much more than that since truckers drive all day. We need a charging network over 100 times the current size to make everything an EV. Every May Day holiday or National Day in China is a showcase of how insufficient our current charging network actually is, with EVs piling up for days on the highway waiting to charge (it's already 1+ hour wait to fuel a petrol car).

Current EV owners need to realize they are the privileged few to either have a standalone house or enough time to spare to actually wait at a charging station. The vast majority who can't afford a house and have to work 2-3 jobs to pay rent will never be able to live the EV life style.
 
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Heicho

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hybrid when

The big radiators are necessary for the Middle East. Also looks like there might just be enough room for a V8. 🙏
 
Randen Montalvo

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F1 Silver Arrows said:
Agreed. For the same reason this is why I'd want the Crown Sedan here, but in the form of a Lexus GS. It makes perfect sense.

Lord, just let me be responsible for product planning at Toyota/Lexus. I'll still do a good job at managing profits too I promise. 😫

I'll go from the top to give context to everyone.

~2 years ago A70TTR (who was the engineering liaison for the A90 GR Supra project and was an absolute beast when it came to leaks, so much so that he was only off once or twice) said that the A100 was in the planning stages and they were fetching ideas from potential customers and current buyers of what they wanted to see in an A100 GR Supra. This was absolutely insane to hear because at that point the A90 was at the end of its second model year, clearly indicating that the A90 has been a roaring success for Toyota. Anyways, I digress.

Specifically, A70TTR asked what would people think if it was an all-Toyota project albeit with some compromises (read as, no inline-six, and is a hybrid).

Most people either wanted the A100 to be a collaboration with Mazda (utilizing their inline-six), or they wanted it on being an all-Toyota product (which would use a V6). I was one of the few people who loudly rooted for the current partnership as I am a staunch believer that it is a match made in heaven and Toyota should continue soldiering on with BMW and make some amazing products together. Most of all, they could have their hands on the B58 even more so than they have before. It seemed like we were able to make some noise as a result.

We haven't really heard from him talk about the A100 since as he has moved to Lexus working on F products.

Fast forward to today, and I've heard two routes that could be possible.

1) Continue with BMW. Basically what @ssun30 mentioned, Toyota could be considering making serious improvements on the current platform which is bespoke for the GR Supra and the Z4. They'd do some more work on the B58 and implement a mild-hybrid system (thus Toyota can still stick to their promise of having an all-hybrid lineup by 2025, though this will happen post-2025). To put it simply, it'd take this car and make it even better than it already is. I should add that it would remain a two-seater as well.

But there are two issues. First, BMW wanted to stop with the Z4 after the E89, and only created the G29 so they could please Toyota and codevelop a platform that they wanted in the first place. They want nothing to do with the Z4 past the G29, which breaks my heart. So, the question is, what BMW model would Toyota be codeveloping with next? No option really looks good for Toyota as all new BMWs with the CLAR platform are very porky. Second, if Toyota is content with the current platform, but BMW doesn't want to continue, where would they build it? Motomachi? Magna Steyr? All of these are relevant questions. The only thing that makes sense to me is if Toyota were to perhaps make heavy modifications or make a similar platform using their own components but still licence or also make heavy modifications to the powertrain/drivetrain as well.

2) Toyota-only development (yup, no Mazda codevelopment here). The A90 GR Supra as well as the GR86 were the perfect cars to relaunch Toyota back into the enthusiast space. Like how the next GR86 will eschew Subaru from the entire development process as the latter seeks to recuse themselves from building sporty cars, Toyota could pull the same move with the A100 GR Supra and develop it on their own.

I cannot stress this enough, the reason why Toyota would now develop on their own is that they did an excellent job messaging the truth, especially with how fickle the enthusiast community can be and how only they seem to appreciate Toyota sports cars only after they're out of production, which does no good for Toyota. After the initial period where people were all up in arms that these were codeveloped products (as we saw with the 86 and GR Supra), buyers realized Toyota had a point and shockingly obeyed to their terms and thus ended up buying their cars, and the b*tching soon ended. Toyota's terms being, it makes no point for them to build something and put their heart and soul into a car, only for people to not appreciate it while it's on sale and have potential economic downturns exacerbate the lack of sales. So, they'd build these codeveloped cars and they EXPECT people to buy them if they ever wanted to convince Toyota to get back into the sports car game again. At the end of the day, no matter how much a car manufacturer wants to build cool products, a car manufacturer's job is to make money. Now we've seen what has happened. There are atrociously long wait-lists for anything badged as a Toyota or they're slapped with mark-ups. Granted, they're exceptional vehicles which has lured customers, but they're especially now paying attention to Toyota as a brand and desire for more product from them. How fascinating, to have a manufacturer be candid with their buyer base, and give them the realities of the automotive industry, only for their customers to listen to them and support them further. If this isn't a symbiotic relationship then I don't know what is. Again, I digress, but I thought this was a very important bit to add.

All right let's get to the nitty-gritty. Now that Toyota can develop on their own, like you said @Gecko, they could develop the A100 GR Supra with a comparable Lexus model. However what I was told was that it won't be codeveloped with a Lexus that is riding on an improved GA-L platform, rather, it is going to be codeveloped with the LFR which would be riding on a platform dubbed as the TNGA-A platform.

Hear me out.

Apparently in this possible second route, Toyota is going to take the Lexus LFR platform, strip every luxurious element out of it, and reduce the amount of premium materials used for the construction of its body, and implement a turbo-hybrid V6 powertrain. The LFR would be this monster with all sorts of light-weight materials, a luxurious interior, and a twin-turbocharged V8 hybrid, whereas the A100 GR Supra is this stripped out, more "regular" version of the LFR that's equipped with a turbo-hybrid V6. If the LFR would cost ~200-300k USD, then the A100 GR Supra would cost ~100k USD. This will remain as a two-seater, but it will go in a completely different direction from every Supra before it, just like how the A90 GR Supra made some departures from previous generation Supras. Unfortunately, this new one will cost like how the A80 did in the 90's, and will not be the bargain behemoth like the A90 was.

LMFAO as I'm writing this, some of my neurons fired and gave me the idea of "oh, perhaps I should check SupraMkV.com", only for me to be bombarded with a whole load of likes/reactions on the A100 GR Supra thread and post updates for other threads. Though people were liking my posts from months ago, I thought to myself why not take a look at the latest posts on the A100 GR Supra thread and look what I find.

View attachment 7851

Well, you heard it from the man himself. The legend emerged from the shadows. I purposely ignored rumors the GR Supra "EV" rumors as I felt it was utter BS because the thought of it being an EV is sacrilegious to me. Well, turns out it was actually true, Toyota was planning it but looks like my manifestations of the GR Supra not becoming an EV was stronger. 🤣🤣

So, there ya have it. Hope this answers your questions @Gecko. In short, it's either a continuation of working with BMW or doing it on their own by utilizing the LFR platform. Both routes are radically different in execution but should still create an excellent successor to the A90.


He read off from the magazine that it'd be the TX powertrain although with an actual torque converter and not a CVT.

I think the V35A-FTS would be a great fit for the IS/RC and they should bring a detuned version of the twin-turbocharged V8 into Lexus' flagship products.
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I'm concerned about how the RCF performance variant replacement is going to fit in the segment with an LFR power wise. I personally was not a fan the LC as a performance car I loved it as a car of ambience and interior quality. But it made zero sense to me when I test drove a RCF Fuji edition for my taste and ended up falling in love with the RCF Fuji Edition because of its raw performance and just amazing package. My question would be how are the F models going to fit because I see the LC playing the SC role but the RCF has already set the precedence of having a F version to compete in the M4 segment. I wonder how thats going to work in terms of the future of a RCF segment based car performance wise.

For Context -
Had the LC been the only car option I wouldve never came to Lexus at this point for a great duel HPDE and competent coupe from Lexus. The issue im having is framing the LC/RC relationship is when you start introducing F models the price of a RCF becomes beyond the LC in many respects and the LC although they canned the LCF unless they leave it as a non-F car in SC fashion and just have the LFR that to me would make sense. The current GT3 Prototype footage of the new GT3 car sounds like the current RCF GT3, however just want to know how the RCF and F cars in general will play because according to Kris K. speculation if consolidated into one I can understand that if a F model will come to the new RCF replacement and then the LFR as the halo car. I just hope Lexus continues with a RCF type M4 performance segment car.

The future of F is certainly continuing based on what where hearing from Lexus top brass but are we then looking at a new RCF and a LFR and then the LC maintaining its SC type current status? Thats the confusing part to me the RCF and the Supra should be platform sharing with the RCF having the more Takumi love of course and the Supra being the raw sports car simplified version. Alot to try to unpack indeed. As of now I dont understand the future F performance variants when it comes down to RC / LFR non F products like the LC and its future power trains. Consolation makes sense but I cant make sense of it at this juncture because the information is only lending itself to the LFR not the rest of the line up.
 
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F1 Silver Arrows

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Randen Montalvo said:
I'm concerned about how the RCF performance variant replacement is going to fit in the segment with an LFR power wise. I personally was not a fan the LC as a performance car I loved it as a car of ambience and interior quality. But it made zero sense to me when I test drove a RCF Fuji edition for my taste and ended up falling in love with the RCF Fuji Edition because of its raw performance and just amazing package. My question would be how are the F models going to fit because I see the LC playing the SC role but the RCF has already set the precedence of having a F version to compete in the M4 segment. I wonder how thats going to work in terms of the future of a RCF segment based car performance wise.

For Context -
Had the LC been the only car option I wouldve never came to Lexus at this point for a great duel HPDE and competent coupe from Lexus. The issue im having is framing the LC/RC relationship is when you start introducing F models the price of a RCF becomes beyond the LC in many respects and the LC although they canned the LCF unless they leave it as a non-F car in SC fashion and just have the LFR that to me would make sense. The current GT3 Prototype footage of the new GT3 car sounds like the current RCF GT3, however just want to know how the RCF and F cars in general will play because according to Kris K. speculation if consolidated into one I can understand that if a F model will come to the new RCF replacement and then the LFR as the halo car. I just hope Lexus continues with a RCF type M4 performance segment car.

The future of F is certainly continuing based on what where hearing from Lexus top brass but are we then looking at a new RCF and a LFR and then the LC maintaining its SC type current status? Thats the confusing part to me the RCF and the Supra should be platform sharing with the RCF having the more Takumi love of course and the Supra being the raw sports car simplified version. Alot to try to unpack indeed. As of now I dont understand the future F performance variants when it comes down to RC / LFR non F products like the LC and its future power trains. Consolation makes sense but I cant make sense of it at this juncture because the information is only lending itself to the LFR not the rest of the line up.
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I agree. There needs to be a proper delineation between an entry-level Lexus sports coupe and a flagship luxury Lexus sports coupe. Consolidating it into one will push away buyers from the top and bottom end.
 
Randen Montalvo

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F1 Silver Arrows said:
I agree. There needs to be a proper delineation between an entry-level Lexus sports coupe and a flagship luxury Lexus sports coupe. Consolidating it into one will push away buyers from the top and bottom end.
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Agreed I think also understanding what the heck is going to be the full F model designations like the RCF replacement and what will take the M4 competitor spot vs just a Luxury Coupe like the LC. Very confusing lol
 
Randen Montalvo

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Levi said:
M4 does very well on its own. M2 and M8 sell less than iPhone mini.
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The G87 M2 has actually had a remarkable sales start it's the standard 2 series that took a huge dive. The M2 was and is selling so well they increased production. The M8 to your point does suffer in sales. The M division did so well on its own that I dont think it really matters in their sphere their volume in general is extraordinary for their price points. Quite a different ball park when you look at the Japanese side of sales but it's not a great topic so I shall digress. I just saw the LC numbers -YTD and was like yea I can understand the LFR starting to rumble.

Back on topic I cannot wait to theirs more on powertrain on the F performance variants manly the RCF if its being called that and how the LFR is going to translate. If a RCF is nearly 500HP now a new F model will have that pushing 550 at least. Where does that put the LFR 650hp? That GT3 car sounds like the current GT3 engine which is a 5.4 V8. So much to look forward to .....we shall see.
 
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F1 Silver Arrows

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Levi said:
M4 does very well on its own. M2 and M8 sell less than iPhone mini.
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This is not true. The M2 sells by the boatloads. The M8 is the flagship. Low sales are expected.

Randen Montalvo said:
The G87 M2 has actually had a remarkable sales start it's the standard 2 series that took a huge dive. The M2 was and is selling so well they increased production. The M8 to your point does suffer in sales. The M division did so well on its own that I dont think it really matters in their sphere their volume in general is extraordinary for their price points. Quite a different ball park when you look at the Japanese side of sales but it's not a great topic so I shall digress. I just saw the LC numbers -YTD and was like yea I can understand the LFR starting to rumble.

Back on topic I cannot wait to theirs more on powertrain on the F performance variants manly the RCF if its being called that and how the LFR is going to translate. If a RCF is nearly 500HP now a new F model will have that pushing 550 at least. Where does that put the LFR 650hp? That GT3 car sounds like the current GT3 engine which is a 5.4 V8. So much to look forward to .....we shall see.
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This.
 
Gor134

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M8 is just a disappointing product to begin with. No one buys that this German Mustang-roofline car is anything but a 6er successor, not a proper special flagship, hence it's lower than expected sales from BMW.
 
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