Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[blackjack214]

IMO, not releasing a production spec LF-1 limitless kinda goes to shows their lack of enthusiasm towards the brand. How do you not release a beautiful and RWD based SUV when thats all people are buying these days (and apparently the only style of car Lexus wants to sell) is beyond me. It was well received by virtually everyone….kinda sad tbh. Personally, I had to jump ship as they offer nothing for younger demographics

 

[carguy420]

Even teeny-tiny Mazda has RWD based unibody SUVs lol 🤷

 

[CRSKTN]

ADDING: https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/threads/lexus-future-bev-thread.7122/post-86001

レクサス新世代"顔"公開!!　まるでセンチュリー級の内装!!　トヨタ本気の1台「LF-ZL」の凄さとは？ - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」

2023年のジャパンモビリティショーで公開されたレクサス LF-ZL。レクサスがBEVの未来を示したラグジュアリーなコンセプトモデルだ。遠い未来のBEVコンセプトだと思っていたが､2026年には登場するという。すぐそこの未来だ!!

bestcarweb.jp

Lexus New Generation ” Face ” Published!!　 Centuryweight interior!!　​

What is the awfulness of one Toyota "LF-ZL"?​

Lexus LF-ZL unveiled at the 2023 Japan Mobility Show. Lexus is a luxury concept model that shows the future of BEV. I thought it was a distant future BEV concept, but it will appear in 2026. The future right there!!

Toyota & Lexus next-generation BEV has been on the market since 2026. One of them is the luxury crossover LF-ZL.

Note that next-generation BEVs, which double their range and reduce their cost by 2%, will be renewed from production methods such as gigacast.

Everything will be a new BEV, such as the first position of a full-scale SDV using the in-vehicle OS "Alene". It is one of the main signs of Toyota.

A giant ship with a total length of 5300 mm. The total width is 2020 mm and the total height is 1700 mm. It is no wonder that the room is vast. When I heard the wheelbase, it was a super long type called 3350mm.

I opened the door on one side in front and behind to show off the vast room, but I was wondering if I was looking at the rear seat with Ottoman. "Is this the Lexus version of the Century?"

In fact, the room is reminiscent of a showfarker. The rear section is completely carved in cream color against the modern front seat and the rear seat is covered with fine mocket.

Electrification is not just a powertrain, but a new degree of freedom in car design. Expect a new flagship for Lexus.

Rough measurement, the wheelbase of the Large SDN is 25% longer than the compact and it stands 8-10% taller.

For comparison, the Lexus IS has a 2,800mm wheelbase, the GR GT3 concept has a wheelbase of 2,725.
The Lexus LS has a 3,125mm wheelbase, or about 12% longer than the IS/GT3 above.

I assume given the center of the structure seems to be the battery, there is some decent variability in wheelbase.

Let's take the Toyota Yaris for example, it has a wheelbase of 2,550mm. The current LS wheelbase is 22.5% longer.
Assuming the compact shown is at the bottom end of the range of what i can do, at around 2,550mm, the large sedan shown would have a nearly 3,190mm wheelbase, or 2% longer than the current LS.

The LM is about 3,000mm wheelbase.

I'm using the Yaris as the base below:
View attachment 8173

Assuming the illustrations (beyond the more detailed large sedan) aren't completely meaningless.

SDN Compact:
2,550mm wheelbase, 1,275mm height
vs Yaris
Current Yaris is 2,550mm wheelbase, 1,495mm tall vehicle
Concept should would be the same wheelbase, but be nearly 15% less tall.
Height:wheelbase goes from 0.59 to 0.5, that's 15% more "low-slung".

SDN Large:
3,190mm wheelbase, 1,380mm height
vs LS
Current Lexus LS is 3,125mm wheelbase, 1,461mm tall vehicle
Concept shown would be about 6% less tall, 2% longer wheelbase
Height:wheelbase goes from 0.47 to 0.43, that's 8% more "low-slung".

SUV Mid:
3,190mm wheelbase, 1,490mm height
vs RX
Current Lexus RX is 2,850mm wheelbase, 1,695mm tall vehicle
Concept shown would be about 12% less tall, 12% longer wheelbase
Height:wheelbase goes from 0.59 to 0.5, that's 21% more "low-slung".

SUV Large:
3,400mm wheelbase, 1,700mm height
vs LX
Current Lexus LX is 2,850mm wheelbase, 1,885mm tall vehicle
Concept shown would be about 12% less tall, 12% longer wheelbase vs LX
Height:wheelbase goes from 0.66 to 0.5, that's 24% more "low-slung" vs LX.
vs TX
Current Lexus TX is 2,950mm wheelbase, 1,780mm tall vehicle
Concept shown would be about 5% less tall, 15% longer wheelbase
Height:wheelbase goes from 0.6 to 0.5, that's 17% more "low-slung" vs TX.

MPV Large:
3,610mm wheelbase, 1,700mm height
vs LM
Current Lexus LM is 3,000mm wheelbase, 1,955mm tall vehicle
Concept shown would be about 13% less tall, 20% longer wheelbase vs LM
Height:wheelbase goes from 0.65 to 0.47, that's 28% more "low-slung" vs LM.


EDIT: With LM/LX/LS overlay:
View attachment 8176

Center of front wheel of LM/LX/LS roughly lined up.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Toyota has been intentionally sandbagging Lexus offerings for years to avoid Lexus (in particular Lexus USA) from becoming too economically dominant in the ecosystem.

You think they couldn't have hit reliability targets and increased power by 10% here or there?
Or bothered to take technology & connectivity seriously earlier on?

Lexus USA had probably been screaming about technology for decades, while the Japanese did their thing and stagnated out of arrogant stubbornness. Took till 2023 that it got anywhere near on par with others.

It's always been a testing ground for things to be cannibalized by Toyota offerings.
Hybrids started there. Luxury cars started there. Foreign presence started there. Luxury & premium crossovers started there, all their most notable consumer performance efforts were within Lexus.

Their most memorable offerings were the skunk works projects they threw into Lexus so god forbid the Toyota name get tarnished with the image of risk taking or boldness.

When Akio heard "Lexus makes boring cars", he didn't hear "make Lexus better", he heard "Use Lexus to trial run efforts at breaking that stereotype, and take the learnings to make Toyota, Crown, and Century marketable abroad."

If you don't realize this was an intentional spit in the face of Lexus customers, who Akio probably secretly despises, I don't know what to tell you:

This is the six figure peak offering from Lexus:
View attachment 9780

Keep in mind the following designs were very deliberately selected.
They didn't just have one option, sometimes they will develop 5 or 10 full vehicles in parallel so execs can choose one to go with.

But when it comes to minivans and econobox daily drivers:
View attachment 9779
View attachment 9781


I'll ask you this: What do you honestly think it takes for Lexus to add a bit of edge to their cars?
You think it's a huge lift? They don't know how to do it?

In hindsight it's actually very clear to me now what's been going on.

A million special versions and GR performance offshoots of low volume low margin throwaway vehicles but they can't rationalize a performance or appearance package that actually does anything.

Or if it does do anything, they charge you out the nose for it like the RC F Track Edition.

I am honestly convinced that the Track Edition cars were a test run to achieve two things:
1) Let Toyota laugh internally at how worthless and gullible their market is
2) Squeeze extreme margins out of a car that was never fully competitive in the first place (I had one, I know)
3) See how far they can push the con

And i'm using the word "con" to reflect my feeling about it all.

/rant

I know that you're pretty close with some individuals in Toyota/Lexus, do you think if more people will share these sentiments Toyota/Lexus Japan start paying attention? Or would all of that be in vain?

Appreciate these insights.

Also, why does HQ in Japan hate Lexus so much? What is driving that hate and neglect? While I understand it and also see it with my own eyes as well, I also have a hard time coming to terms with it.

 

[carguy420]

I know that you're pretty close with some individuals in Toyota/Lexus, do you think if more people will share these sentiments Toyota/Lexus Japan start paying attention? Or would all of that be in vain?

Appreciate these insights.

Also, why does HQ in Japan hate Lexus so much? What is driving that hate and neglect? While I understand it and also see it with my own eyes as well, I also have a hard time coming to terms with it.

Can't say for TMC's HQ in Japan, but the majority of the Japanese public are so used to luxury cars being sold under the Toyota brand that they don't see the point of having Lexus, they see Lexus as a brand for selling overpriced Toyotas, and models like the Toyota Harrier and Alphard/Vellfire hold their value so well in the used market, mainly because of strong demand for these models in other Asian countries, that it becomes an absolute no-brainier to just go for those models instead of Lexus.

If only the majority of Lexus' lineup (especially high volume models in today's market, a.k.a. SUVs) are so significantly different from Toyotas, that one can't find solid reasons to accused them for being just a bunch of overpriced Toyotas.

Plus, seeing how badly Lexus gets looked down by the general public in Japan despite doing pretty well in the US, is probably why Acura and Infiniti which already don't have particularly positive reputation in the US, were never introduced to the Japanese market.

 

[ssun30]

Not true. Lexus models are increasingly used as personal executive cars (non-chauffeured) in Japan. I say this because my previous boss/business partner drove a RX450h and that car is considered a very high-end item (while in America the RX is a middle class car) and he recently upgraded to a LS500h which is considered the peak of personal achievement in Japan (Century is reserved for a very exclusive group of people). Traditional Toyota luxury buyers tend to be chauffered more than Lexus buyers, so they don't really overlap. GS is probably one of the few products to have a negative stereotype as a "black sedan" used by Yakuza members similar to the 5 series and E-class because it was arguably the most "European" product in Lexus lineup.

The real reason Lexus/Acura/Infiniti brands did not fit in Japan was because their US-centric products are all wide-body cars which physically cannot fit in most Japanese streets and parking spots. But in recent years roads and parking spaces in Tokyo are getting more wide-body friendly and Lexus got more popular as a result.

 

[carguy420]

I don't even know if best car's rumors about the Celica and MR2 are even accurate anymore or they are pulling nonsense out of their a$$ to get clicks.

 

[CRSKTN]

 

[Gor134]

Yeah I highly doubt this info about the MR2 and Celiac being the same car due to the teaser in the short film series.

 

[carguy420]

Yeah I highly doubt this info about the MR2 and Celiac being the same car due to the teaser in the short film series.

Exactly, feels like best car is just making sh1t up to get views and sales of their magazine.

 

[CRSKTN]

Yeah I highly doubt this info about the MR2 and Celiac being the same car due to the teaser in the short film series.

I dont know it is saying theyre the same, but that the mr2 may be another car still?

 

[dylanfoos]

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I don't know who to believe anymore. My sources aren't going to be relevant anymore either as everything I had was until the late 2020's, but Toyota keeps changing sh*t.

 

[NomadDan]

I have a hard time believing the MR2 will be the Celica. Combining the Supra and Celica makes more sense.

 

[Sulu]

I dont know it is saying theyre the same, but that the mr2 may be another car still?

That's the way I read it also: What was thought to be the MR2 is now thought to be the Celica but they say nothing else about the MR2; it could still be hidden with no leaks yet.

 

[Levi]

So FJ cruiser is a real off-road vehicle and not a tough looking FWD CUV?

 

[NomadDan]

So FJ cruiser is a real off-road vehicle and not a tough looking FWD CUV?

That’s what the rumor mill is saying. Apparently it’s built on the IMV body-on-frame platform. Rumors keep saying it’s on the Hilux Champ platform, but this doesn’t make sense to me. The Fortuner is also on IMV, except it has a 4-link coil rear suspension. If the IMV platform is being used, it makes more sense to use the Fortuner chassis. It’s already designed to use the 2.7 gas and 2.8 diesel drivetrains, and the wheelbase is just about perfect.

That being said, there’s still a part of me that is skeptical of all this.

 

[dylanfoos]

 

[CRSKTN]

That's the way I read it also: What was thought to be the MR2 is now thought to be the Celica but they say nothing else about the MR2; it could still be hidden with no leaks yet.

I wonder if either of these will share underpinnings with the new Lexus coupe replacement for the RC/LC.

If they can be down market derivations or benefit from the GT3 platform & powertrain (maybe detuned / simplified?), that would be an interesting approach.

Dedicated hard edged cut down performance offerings via Toyota/GR. Luxury coated teched out performance GT offerings from Lexus.

 

[Gor134]

I wonder if either of these will share underpinnings with the new Lexus coupe replacement for the RC/LC.

What replacement?