Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[internalaudit]

A hybrid (fuel miser) four-seater (even if two-door) Celica or MR2 would be wonderful. Could be a daily driver for me.

Doubt the rear seats will be comfortable though for adult passengers.

 

[Gecko]

https://car.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1641964.html
It seem we miss something new on Nov. 23, same time on Rally Japan Toyota's booth and we know Celica is incoming.
The new 1.5 and 2.0T are tentatively called X15/X20, 1.5T with hybrid system will be equal nowaday 2.5 system. 2L turbo targeting 400PS on sale. racing version converting "head" will be 600PS (Sorry, don't know what is the "head" mean in orginal article.)
And CTO Nakajima said these new engines can fit in longitudinal and tranverse.

If they put the 400PS 2.0T in the next Supra, it's going to be disappointing. Toyota's horses are raised on grass clippings and BMW's horses are raised on lead, testosterone, and HGH. Current car is around 415hp to the wheels I believe?

 

[internalaudit]

If they put the 400PS 2.0T in the next Supra, it's going to be disappointing. Toyota's horses are raised grass clippings and BMW's horses are raised on lead, testosterone, and HGH. Current car is around 415hp to the wheels I believe?

As long as the Toyota/Lexus is more reliable (in a few years haha), I'm up for it.

The B58TU2 with port injectors and some exhaust gas exit deactivation seems to be a problem even for some below 10,000 mile 7 and X7 vehicles, even to date.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

If they put the 400PS 2.0T in the next Supra, it's going to be disappointing. Toyota's horses are raised on grass clippings and BMW's horses are raised on lead, testosterone, and HGH. Current car is around 415hp to the wheels I believe?

The A90?

A90: ~400 @ crank

A91: ~440 @ crank

But Gecko you're greatly underestimating Toyota/Lexus powertrains too. Look at the 2UR-GSE in the IS F for example, those things were underrated and even made more power the older they got.

 

[sl0519]

A100: ~440 @ crank

Where did u get this info from? It's not even out yet.

But Gecko you're greatly underestimating Toyota/Lexus powertrains too. Look at the 2UR-GSE in the IS F for example, those things were underrated and even made more power the older they got.

How much hp does the current 2UR make @ crank?

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Where did u get this info from? It's not even out yet.

Whoops I meant to say A91, not A100. I'll fix that.

How much hp does the current 2UR make @ crank?

I remember seeing an IS F dynoing without mods and it made crank power at the wheels. Even if you were to dyno the current F cars, the power numbers at the wheels is not that far off from the crank. It's quite close actually.

 

[Ali Manai]

トヨタのエスティマが復活!? 日産はどうなるの？ ベストカー1月10日号発売中!! - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」

ベストカーWebをご覧の皆さま、こんにちは！ CX-80のディーゼルモデルの仕上がりが想像以上でたまげている編集部告知担当です。年末気分もほどほどにベストカーはひと足早く’25年仕様に！お近くのコンビニや書店、ネット通販でお買…

bestcarweb.jp

The toyota estima is coming back previously it was rumoured to come back as a bev but now it's coming back as hybrid would probably use the 1.5 turbo

 

[davidlovelexus]

トヨタのエスティマが復活!? 日産はどうなるの？ ベストカー1月10日号発売中!! - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」

ベストカーWebをご覧の皆さま、こんにちは！ CX-80のディーゼルモデルの仕上がりが想像以上でたまげている編集部告知担当です。年末気分もほどほどにベストカーはひと足早く’25年仕様に！お近くのコンビニや書店、ネット通販でお買…

bestcarweb.jp

The toyota estima is coming back previously it was rumoured to come back as a bev but now it's coming back as hybrid would probably use the 1.5 turbo

Wait untill 2027...

 

[internalaudit]

Beginning to think that a HEV with torque vectoring would be the ideal next vehicle purchase for me. That is, until battery pack replacements costs become more palatable.

Maybe the Celica or MR2 it is for me. Don't even care if it's two door as long as it can seat four comfortably.

 

[Ali Manai]

I guess if lexus made a v6 gs it would be around 85k

 

[Randen Montalvo]

View attachment 9755
Long live the 2 gr

One of the best recent announcements indeed!! A total EV strategy for a prior ICE brand is almost certain to fail at this moment in time especially in the US.

 

[Randen Montalvo]

^ Allocation is probably much worse on those higher-end Porsches where you may need to have bought a few vehicles before they will sell one of those higher end models to you.

Porsche is trying/mimicking limited supply to keep demand/prices up. Prices on any Porsche has gone through the roof here in Canada. Unless I really highly value the cachet, the "better" steering feel, the slightly better chassis design when driving closer to the limits (which I probably won't), I'm just not so sure if the brand is going to be on my radar. Sure we were considering the Macan 4 but yikes about the pricing and who knows how much Porsche will want for the battery pack replacement down the road.

Even the Polestar 3 seems very well regarded when it comes to handling, thanks to the BorgWarner eTVD.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2025-polestar-3-first-test-review/

I still remain interested in Lexus vehicles because I know they are still built and drive better than Toyotas and probably are the more reliable vehicles we can find nowadays when reliability and longevity are taking the dumpster.

My recent service visits unconfirmed theory - Lexus is just painfully almost frustratingly to market with the performance segment compared to everyone they compete against to their detriment, it just gives the impression although no factual basis of reference of a possible conflicted board. At the dealerships i go to there is no LC500 or IS500 on display, they did have convertible LC500s promoting a Golf event ( I live in FL ) for some golf events but that has ended. The majority is all GX, RX, TX, ES, LS models there is nothing Lexus performance showcased to write home about since they sold their RCF TEs already and took down all the racing stuff. I dont know whats going on but its certainly odd indeed. In contrast to a Toyota dealership, they have a fleet Supras that have been sitting for quite some time by me and GR varients available that are the same cars have viewed 3Ms ago prior oil change. BUT they are selling tons of SUVs and Camrys and Corrollas. This is to be expected of course they cant keep a RAV4 on the lot. They have moved their GR cars to the back of the lot and placed Rav 4s in front because there leases are very aggressive. I actually just noticed this recently when servicing my RCF and our GR Supra and seeing them move all the GR performance cars to the back of the lot. Christmas sales promo can also be a culprit but its quite confusing. To the contrast BMW has a massive M display showcasing all their motorsport wins with a M4CSL followed by all M car varients in their showroom ( I had prior M cars and get great tire deals from their service manager on my cars still ) . However dealerships are ad-hoc based ..maybe its just December to Remember sales events and comparable Toyota sales moves. Business ROI vs Enthusiast conflicts of interest indeed.

I like you also love Lexus aswell and still very very loyal to the brand no question, for me im kinda waiting to see what they do with the F brand and how the final year of the RCF runs as their racing team is just so darn epic which im a huge fan of. Lexus racing is a top notch program so much better than the BMW program in terms of engagement thats what made me excited for the brand honestly. I want to see what the next generation of F performance translates to with Lexus which im excited for. I would be remiss not to state how frustrating it is when Porsche near me hosts racing parties for their owners when their cars race in the US and you look at stunning Lexus dealerships that really dont connect well with their racing program or translate that history well branding wise. The service is always top notch but sometimes your like hey why not come out with ownership programs for enthusiasts to create funnels and bring them in to convert them to sales etc or rather just host low cost events at the dealership to keep engagement up even at a quarterly level. Its very hard to convince Porsche owners to buy anything else unlike Mercedes owners etc yet Lexus seems to be following Mercedes. Since i had M cars prior i was not too happy to see Lexus benchmark the AMG GT for the upcoming F model but i will give the benefit of the doubt until we see how it drives.

Sometimes enthusiasts' wants due to the niche ROI can be a very tricky thing to capitalize on. Lexus in my view is in a major transition and the end of 2025 going into 2026 is going to really tell us where the brand is headed. With the RCF ending this year and the LC ending in 2025 many of us kinda want to see the road map to dispel so much speculation indeed.

You know we know and have a clear direction of what's ahead for BMW, PORSCHE, MERCEDES etc

We can certainly use some much-needed help from Lexus in painting more accurately what the future holds more consistently.

We shall see.

 

[qtb007]

IMO, you see the focus on sports cars at BMW and Porsche stores because the enthusiast sales are a much bigger portion of their overall volume than it is at Lexus. Now, that seems to be changing where the X models are overtaking the 2/3/4/5 models, but they do have 30-40 years of M3 and M5 continuity to show how they earned their credentials. The CUVs financially saved the Porsche sports cars, but when someone says they bought a Porsche, we all still assume they mean 911 or Cayman. Porsche and BMW CUV buyers settle for a CUV. They really want to go home in the 911 or M3. I don't think that dynamic exists at Lexus because the only truly legendary sports Lexus wasn't appreciated until it was out of production (LFA). The stores are just playing to their brand's broader strengths.

 

[Levi]

The CUVs financially saved the Porsche sports cars

Factually wrong: the Boxster (986) and the group of Toyota consultants saved Porsche.

 

[CRSKTN]

Do not underestinate the cayenne

 

[qtb007]

Factually wrong: the Boxster (986) and the group of Toyota consultants saved Porsche.

There are google results that state both, but it appears that the Boxster more closely aligned with their bankruptcy scare. That said, due to shared platform, high sales, and high transaction prices, it is pretty much guaranteed that the SUVs were paying the bills over at Porsche through the 2000s and 2010s. Porsche doesn't become the juggernaut that it is without the very profitable, high volume Cayenne... but 911 is the Porsche.

To change what Lexus is to most people, Lexus needs to invest 20+ years in a nameplate at volume. 7 out of 10 Lexus sold today are some sort of family crossover. The ES, LS, IS, RC, GX, and LX spit up the remaining 30% of the volume with the IS and RC combining to make up the smallest slice at only 7%. With the industry in a bit of a transition, it's probably not a terrible idea to pause on F and focus on the core business until there is a little more clarity of what those buyers are looking for.

 

[internalaudit]

If Lexus came up with RWD-based platform CUVs and sedans with 85% of the BMW M-lite performance, include the option for $2,000 torque vectoring and price it 10% below BMW's base offerings, how can they not be winners?

Based off Savageese's video on the Pilot and MDX, the Pilot is the best in-class in the non-luxury segment. If a FWD platform with IVTM4 (torque vectoring) can get to the top, Lexus could easily get there with RWD-based AWD vehicles. With conservatism though, I doubt it will happen for ICEVs and HEVs, will likely come to fruition in PHEVs or BEVs.

Reliability should be higher than German vehicles and cost of servicing likely 50-70% of the cost.

 

[sl0519]

There are google results that state both, but it appears that the Boxster more closely aligned with their bankruptcy scare. That said, due to shared platform, high sales, and high transaction prices, it is pretty much guaranteed that the SUVs were paying the bills over at Porsche through the 2000s and 2010s. Porsche doesn't become the juggernaut that it is without the very profitable, high volume Cayenne... but 911 is the Porsche.

To change what Lexus is to most people, Lexus needs to invest 20+ years in a nameplate at volume. 7 out of 10 Lexus sold today are some sort of family crossover. The ES, LS, IS, RC, GX, and LX spit up the remaining 30% of the volume with the IS and RC combining to make up the smallest slice at only 7%. With the industry in a bit of a transition, it's probably not a terrible idea to pause on F and focus on the core business until there is a little more clarity of what those buyers are looking for.

Problem is......they never really put in the effort to update those models in a TIMELY MANNER. People eventually get tired of their bs, lose patience, and move on to other brands. Then they blame the lack of sales on insufficient demand, even though their competitors are doing just fine in those segments. Just think about it - aside from their SUVs, which other models have they actually updated on time? When was the last time they introduced a truly competitive powertrain across all segments? Too many lame excuses imo.

 

[CRSKTN]

Toyota has been intentionally sandbagging Lexus offerings for years to avoid Lexus (in particular Lexus USA) from becoming too economically dominant in the ecosystem.

You think they couldn't have hit reliability targets and increased power by 10% here or there?
Or bothered to take technology & connectivity seriously earlier on?

Lexus USA had probably been screaming about technology for decades, while the Japanese did their thing and stagnated out of arrogant stubbornness. Took till 2023 that it got anywhere near on par with others.

It's always been a testing ground for things to be cannibalized by Toyota offerings.
Hybrids started there. Luxury cars started there. Foreign presence started there. Luxury & premium crossovers started there, all their most notable consumer performance efforts were within Lexus.

Their most memorable offerings were the skunk works projects they threw into Lexus so god forbid the Toyota name get tarnished with the image of risk taking or boldness.

When Akio heard "Lexus makes boring cars", he didn't hear "make Lexus better", he heard "Use Lexus to trial run efforts at breaking that stereotype, and take the learnings to make Toyota, Crown, and Century marketable abroad."

If you don't realize this was an intentional spit in the face of Lexus customers, who Akio probably secretly despises, I don't know what to tell you:

This is the six figure peak offering from Lexus:


Keep in mind the following designs were very deliberately selected.
They didn't just have one option, sometimes they will develop 5 or 10 full vehicles in parallel so execs can choose one to go with.

But when it comes to minivans and econobox daily drivers:




I'll ask you this: What do you honestly think it takes for Lexus to add a bit of edge to their cars?
You think it's a huge lift? They don't know how to do it?

In hindsight it's actually very clear to me now what's been going on.

A million special versions and GR performance offshoots of low volume low margin throwaway vehicles but they can't rationalize a performance or appearance package that actually does anything.

Or if it does do anything, they charge you out the nose for it like the RC F Track Edition.

I am honestly convinced that the Track Edition cars were a test run to achieve two things:
1) Let Toyota laugh internally at how worthless and gullible their market is
2) Squeeze extreme margins out of a car that was never fully competitive in the first place (I had one, I know)
3) See how far they can push the con

And i'm using the word "con" to reflect my feeling about it all.

/rant

 

[mikeavelli]

I guess if lexus made a v6 gs it would be around 85k

And these things don’t sell with awful resale value. It’s also not sporty even in the sportiest trim. And for 85k just buy the real deal Audi S7.