MKV Toyota Supra Master Thread

[Gecko]

Just as we expected, I guess... I like it!

 

[supra93]

Mike PS it for us in some different colors.

 

[supra93]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/6-cylinder-toyota-supra-to-be-offered-in-base-and-track-trim.1440/

 

[Motor]

Priced like the BMW that it is.

 

[Gecko]

If that pricing is correct, this car is probably going to live a limited life. The case for coupes has been tough all along, and the market for passenger cars has only gotten worse. Not to mention, it's about $15-20k overpriced when you look at competitive offerings up and down the market. IMO, even a base model at $45k was going to be a tough sell... let alone $52k. This car should be maxing out around $53k loaded to be competitive.

I just can't figure out who they think is going to buy this Supra, exactly. Old fanboys drunk on nostalgia? I am expecting a typical Toyota "we live in a vacuum and are going to act like competition doesn't exist" PR announcement and press kit about how its a "different type of car" and how they engineered it to be in a class of one, etc.

Meanwhile...

Camaro:
ZL1
$63,295
650 hp
650 lb-ft of torque
3,883 lbs

1SS
$37,995
455 hp
455 lb-ft of torque
3,685 lbs

Mustang:
Shelby GT 350
$59,140
526 hp
476 lb-ft of torque
3,760 lbs

GT
$35,335
460 hp
420 lb-ft of torque
3,520 lbs

Corvette:
Stingray
$55,495
460 hp
465 lb-ft
3,298 lbs

Grand Sport
$65,495
460 hp
465 lb-ft
3,428 lbs

Porsche 718 Cayman
$56,900
300 hp
280 lb-ft of torque
2,944 lbs

BMW M2 Competition:
$58,900
405 hp
406 lb-ft
3,600 lbs

Supra:
"Base model"
$52,000
330 hp
330 lb-ft of torque
3,350 lbs

"Track model"
$61,000
382 hp
369 lb-ft of torque
3,150 lbs

Looking at the competition and some of what Toyota has already said, I feel like they think they've built a cheaper Porsche Cayman, but the problem, IMO is that its a Toyota... and not actually that much cheaper.

 

[supra93]

Guff and A70 kinda hinted that the pricing isn't correct. Also the weight is less than "3,350 lbs". This was confirmed by both A70 and Toyota Europe during the media test drive in Spain.

As far as the base Cayman goes, we all know that the pricing on the website is for a strip out model. Those things can easily hit the $70k+ with options.

In other news.

Want the First 2020 Toyota Supra? Get Your Auction Arm Ready!

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/want-the-first-2020-toyota-supra-get-your-auction-arm-ready.1441/

 

[Gecko]

As far as the base Cayman goes, we all know that the pricing on the website is for a strip out model. Those things can easily hit the $70k+ with options.

Even as a lifelong Toyota/Lexus fanboy, I can't tell you I would spend $62k on a Toyota Supra vs. $70k on a Porsche 718 Cayman. It's a Porsche. I really think Toyota is trying to punch above their weight at this price point if those rumors are even remotely true.

In other news.

Want the First 2020 Toyota Supra? Get Your Auction Arm Ready!

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/want-the-first-2020-toyota-supra-get-your-auction-arm-ready.1441/

Look how beautiful that seat is - reminds me of the RC F and GS F.

 

[supra93]

Even as a lifelong Toyota/Lexus fanboy, I can't tell you I would spend $62k on a Toyota Supra vs. $70k on a Porsche 718 Cayman. It's a Porsche. I really think Toyota is trying to punch above their weight at this price point if those rumors are even remotely true.

I'm not a fanboy of xyz, don't let the username fool you, I actually own way more European cars than anything. I know Toyota has overpriced some of it's product in the past. The GS-F is the most recent example that comes to mind. With that said I look at value & performance. An online rumored $61k 382hp 6 cylinder vs a "57k" 300hp 4 cylinder. I know some people just buy because of the badge, and that's cool. To each their own, but not everyone thinks that way. When the R35 came out it was priced around the $70k range. But we should all have brought the "$60k" Cayman S instead? Just "because its a Porsche". The way I look at it, is different strokes for different folks. And let's not forget, these numbers are not official.

 

[Gecko]

I'm not a fanboy of xyz, don't let the username fool you, I actually own way more European cars than anything. I know Toyota has overpriced some of it's product in the past. The GS-F is the most recent example that comes to mind. With that said I look at value & performance. An online rumored $61k 382hp 6 cylinder vs a "57k" 300hp 4 cylinder. I know some people just buy because of the badge, and that's cool. To each their own, but not everyone thinks that way. When the R35 came out it was priced around the $70k range. But we should all have brought the "$60k" Cayman S instead? Just "because its a Porsche". The way I look at it, is different strokes for different folks. And let's not forget, these numbers are not official.

I totally get what you are saying and don't disagree. But while the Porsche is down on power, it's also down on weight. Supra has been absent for 20+ years while GT-R is a car that's always had a storied legacy with pent up US demand. Apples to oranges, really.

The whole other question is how the Supra faithful and old owners will respond to a car that is 85% engineered by BMW. This is a very different type of car, in that sense. The beauty of the old Supra is that it could do track duty and DD just the same, reliably for over 200k miles and with over 700hp. Will BMW internals give use the same story?

 

[supra93]

I totally get what you are saying and don't disagree. But while the Porsche is down on power, it's also down on weight. Supra has been absent for 20+ years while GT-R is a car that's always had a storied legacy with pent up US demand. Apples to oranges, really.

The whole other question is how the Supra faithful and old owners will respond to a car that is 85% engineered by BMW. This is a very different type of car, in that sense. The beauty of the old Supra is that it could do track duty and DD just the same, reliably for over 200k miles and with over 700hp. Will BMW internals give use the same story?

It probably is slightly heavier, but if the Z4 is anything to go by than it still faster. The Z4 M40i does 0-60 in 4.4 sec. Base Cayman comes in at 4.9 sec. And the A90 is suppose to be around 100-200lbs lighter than the G29. But but but its a Porsche. But seriously, you don't think the Supra nameplate has any presence?

I can already tell you that Supraforums is already shitting all over this Zupra. To them nothing will ever live up to the A80. Maybe the NAs, but the TTs needed some work after a certain amount of mileage. I have no clue, all I can say is that the BMW motor in the Supra has been tested towards to 700hp. Tada-san is no idiot, he knows what is riding on their shoulders by using the Supra nameplate. In his interviews he has even encourage people to mod this thing. He also said the car is tuner friendly. I can also tell you that the UK owners that did the met and greet with Tada & the A90 in Goodwood had nothing but good things to say. Lastly, we also have the GRMN Supra, rumored to use a modified head. Take all that as you will.

 

[Levi]

I totally get what you are saying and don't disagree. But while the Porsche is down on power, it's also down on weight. Supra has been absent for 20+ years while GT-R is a car that's always had a storied legacy with pent up US demand. Apples to oranges, really.

The whole other question is how the Supra faithful and old owners will respond to a car that is 85% engineered by BMW. This is a very different type of car, in that sense. The beauty of the old Supra is that it could do track duty and DD just the same, reliably for over 200k miles and with over 700hp. Will BMW internals give use the same story?

The Porsche is also porky when comapre to the Alpine A110 or more radical Alfa 4C or Lotus. Everything is a compromise, the Porsche too.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

An online rumored $61k 382hp 6 cylinder vs a "57k" 300hp 4 cylinder.

You hit a crucial point in the comparison. I've already expressed my opinion in this regard on another thread on these forums, but I'll repeat it here:

For the past 4 or 5 years, I've been a member of SAMA (Southern Automotive Media Association) and, as such, I've been one of the judges of their Topless in Miami event. This is, basically, a day-long drive-and-compare event of whatever convertible and sunroof vehicles the carmakers deign to bring down. In its 2017 iteration, the "High Performance" category consisted of the Porsche 718 Boxster S versus the Jaguar F-Type SVR. It was a no-contest blowout win by the Jaguar, which also got the overall "Convertible of the Year" title. I remember being totally disappointed and underwhelmed by the Boxster, especially its engine sound, which sounded way more like an old, rear-engined VW Beetle with an EMPI aftermarket exhaust (the 60s equivalent of today's Honda Civics with fart can/coffee can aftermarket exhausts) than anything worthy of its price tag. Hopefully, the older, flat-6 Boxsters are more worthy of the hoopla, but the flat-4 718 was a huge disappointment.

Even at closer-than-expected prices, the Supra's silky-smooth inline 6 (even if a BMW mill) is a plus over a far less refined flat-4 Porsche.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

From Automotive News Europe:

December 17, 2018
Toyota Supra is a samurai with the heart of a BMW
5th-gen model's inline-6 from German automaker

SODEGAURA, Japan — What makes a Toyota Supra a Toyota Supra? Ask the legendary car's chief engineer, and he will say it has more to do with the type of engine than who actually makes it.

That's the main reason Japan's biggest automaker decided to put a German-designed powerplant from BMW instead of one of its own into the reboot of its signature sports car.

The fifth-generation Supra that debuts at the Detroit auto show next month will get an inline, six-cylinder engine, he says, because the model's identity depends on it. Every previous Supra generation had an inline-six. Customers expect nothing less in the next, Tada says.

Which is a problem: Toyota doesn't make the straight-sixers any more.

Instead, Toyota is using the same 3.0-liter six-cylinder turbo that goes into the BMW Z4 roadster. It generates more than 300 hp, Tada said, though Toyota hasn't specified exact figures yet.

Customer surveys showed that the Supra's one non-negotiable attribute was a straight six."The straight six is the only engine with perfect balance and low vibration. We can realize smooth driving with exciting sound," Tada said during a recent Supra test drive at a racetrack southeast of Tokyo.

The engine is newly developed for the BMW 3 series, Z4 and Supra, using several new technologies to improve power and emissions, Tada said. It passes strict Euro 6 emissions rules.

German DNA
But the Supra draws on more from BMW than an engine. The car also shares the Z4's automatic 8-speed transmission, chassis, platform and many mechanical components. The two cars were developed together by the German-Japanese duo under a 2012 agreement.

Toyota also tuned the engine, transmission and chassis to its own tastes.

That job fell to chief test driver Herwig Daenens. The Belgian driver studied at the hand of late master test driver Hiromu Naruse, the Toyota guru who taught CEO Akio Toyoda how to race and set the standard for the company's sports cars by helping craft the Lexus LFA super sports car.

Toyoda also had a voice in the tuning. He tested the car repeatedly during development, as early as three years ago in Germany, offering input on areas such as braking, Tada said.

"It was only recently that he started smiling a little, and said 'it has become better,' " Tada said.

Supra fans may get a sneak peek before the Detroit show. Toyota's Gazoo Racing division will show a GR Supra Super GT Concept at the Tokyo Auto Salon, which runs Jan. 11-13. A teaser shot of that car shows a blacked-out Supra with a large racing wing on the back lid.

The Supra is the first original product developed by Gazoo Racing Co., which was cleaved off last year as an internal subcompany in a reorganization to streamline operations.

Despite Toyota's sporty ambitions, the brand's two sporty offerings still rely on engines that aren't even made by Toyota. The Supra gets its from BMW. The other, the Toyota 86, gets its four-cylinder horizontally-opposed powerplant from partner Subaru, which also assembles the car.

But Toyota might not have to borrow from others for long.

Tada, who is chief engineer at Gazoo Racing, said the division is currently developing several of its own sporty engines for production cars. Tada declined to give further details, such as whether the engines are all-new powerplants or simply retuned versions of existing ones.

But he suggested electrification might play into the plans.

The revived Supra gets a low center of gravity, wide track and short wheelbase for crisp handling, Toyota says. It also boasts a 50-50 front-rear weight ratio and body rigidity on par with the carbon-fiber LFA. The car is code-named the A90, following on the previous A50-A80s.

‘As small as possible'
Among other details released by Toyota, the Supra will get four adaptive dampers as standard equipment. The system automatically lowers the car 7 millimeters (a quarter inch) as needed for better handling and grip while cornering.

It also gets an electronically actuated active differential. The setup sends power to either rear wheel as needed for better traction. Finally, the Supra rides on stiffer wheel bearings for increased rigidity and large-diameter disc brakes with robust four-pot Brembo calipers.

"We focused on making this car as small as possible. It comes in a small package, and the driver can always feel the corners of the four tires," Tada said. "That, in turn, determined the width of the car, which made it impossible for us to create the rear seat. So we have created a two-seater car despite opposition from our sales department."

Toyota pulled the last Supra from North America in 1998, but the car remained in production for other markets until 2002. Toyota has struggled with sporty coupes ever since.

The last generation Supra model offered a twin-turbo six that gave near supercar performance of 0-to-60 mph times under 5 seconds and a top speed of more than 150 mph.

That car was also pricey, selling for more than $50,000 in 1996.

https://europe.autonews.com/automak...art-bmw?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Motor]

Despite Toyota's sporty ambitions, the brand's two sporty offerings still rely on engines that aren't even made by Toyota. The Supra gets its from BMW. The other, the Toyota 86, gets its four-cylinder horizontally-opposed powerplant from partner Subaru, which also assembles the car.

But Toyota might not have to borrow from others for long.

Tada, who is chief engineer at Gazoo Racing, said the division is currently developing several of its own sporty engines for production cars. Tada declined to give further details, such as whether the engines are all-new powerplants or simply retuned versions of existing ones.

But he suggested electrification might play into the plans.

I'm not holding my breath. But, hybrid performance does sound appealing.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

And now, the iconic red, silver, black & white A90 camo wrap around many a Mk5 Supra prototype is available as gift-wrapping paper in the UK. Here's the story:

TOYOTA SPECIAL SUPRA WRAPPING PAPER SUPPORTS CRISIS AT CHRISTMAS
Toyota is helping raise funds for the Crisis at Christmas charity appeal with a special edition seasonal wrapping paper inspired by its all-new Supra sports car.

The paper, produced in a limited run of just 500 rolls, has the same camouflage body wrap design that has adorned the Supra prototype since its first appearance at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in the summer. The dazzle pattern features the red, white and black colours of Toyota Gazoo Racing and a subtle “A90” reference that enthusiasts will recognise as the new car’s chassis code.

The paper is available to buy now from Toyota GB via CrowdFunder.co.uk, here: http://fal.cn/SupraWrappingPaper.

The price is £5 (US$6.30) for four sheets of paper (each sheet 695mm x 1000mm) with all proceeds going to Crisis UK, the national charity for homeless people, to support its Crisis at Christmas programme.

The all-new Toyota Supra is one of the most keenly anticipated new model introductions for 2019, marking the return of the most famous sports car name from Toyota’s sports car heritage. It has already provoked great excitement among motorists keen to experience a car that is focused purely on driving pleasure. Their appetite has been whetted by the car’s scene-stealing appearances in prototype form this year at the Geneva Motor Show and Goodwood Festival of Speed, and by glowing reviews from the first journalists to drive it.

Order reservations for the new Toyota Supra are being taken now through Toyota’s national consumer website, or through local Toyota retailer web pages, using the My Toyota app.

https://media.toyota.co.uk/2018/12/toyota-special-supra-wrapping-paper-supports-crisis-at-christmas/

 

[supra93]

 

[Gecko]

Sounds really good to me :thumbsup:

 

[supra93]

Our test drive and more technical details about the new Supra

https://www.toyota-supra.de/blogs/p...hrlicher-test-des-neuen-2019-toyota-supra-a90

 

[supra93]

 

[supra93]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/this-is-the-new-toyota-supra.1467/