MKV Toyota Supra Master Thread

[Gecko]

The power is underrated and still a much better buy than the base "$57k" Cayman. Not to mention you get an I6 vs a 4 banger.

While the BMW I6 is a great engine, the Porsche 2.0T isn't bad either. And it's also a Porsche - that weighs 450 lbs less. And the Cayman isn't the only competitor, as the list above shows.

 

[supra93]

While the BMW I6 is a great engine, the Porsche 2.0T isn't bad either. And it's also a Porsche - that weighs 450 lbs less. And the Cayman isn't the only only competitor, as the list above shows.

Porsche 2.0T sounds like crap. Some of us look beyond the badge. Yes, I am aware. Check my updated post.

I'm not going keep going back and forth with you. It's obvious you don't like the car. Which is fine, to each their own, we will just have to agree to disagree and let the sales numbers spreak from themselves on wether it is a success or flop.

 

[Gecko]

Porsche 2.0T sounds like crap. Some of us look beyond the badge. Yes, I am aware. Check my updated post.

I'm not going keep going back and forth with you. It's obvious you don't like the car. Which is fine, to each their own, we will just have to agree to disagree and let the sales numbers spreak from themselves on wether it is a success or flop.

It seems that the Cayman is running a little faster than Porsche's 5.1s claim - MotorTrend got 0-60 in 4.5s with the PDK, which is most comparable to the Supra's 8AT. Supra is still faster on paper, and I hope it is in real life.

Definitely interested to see where sales of this car are at after the first model year. Did they publish sales goals yet?

 

[Gecko]

BMW releases updated 0-60 time for Z4 M40i
It's now quicker than the Supra

BMW has released updated specs for the 2019 BMW Z4 M40i, specifically its 0-60-mph time, curb weight and gross vehicle weight. This comes on the heels of this morning's introduction of its platform-mate, the 2020 Toyota Supra. You might have seen something about that today.

BMW says the Z4 M40i now goes from zero to 60 mph in 3.9 seconds, a half-second improvement from the 4.4-second time it originally provided. (We originally reported that figure this morning in comparing the cars, but that post is now updated). It also bests the Supra's 4.1-second time, which makes sense since it has 47 extra horsepower and only weighs 46 extra pounds.

That curb weight, previously unpublished, is officially 3,443 pounds. The gross vehicle weight is 4,092.

So, what's the deal with the sudden change in 0-60 time? Logically, this seems like the result of the Z4 and Supra being developed together by two companies with differing 0-60 testing and reporting methodologies. Specifically, BMW has notoriously been conservative over the years when it comes to performance estimates. Toyota has not. When Toyota came up with its number, which was quicker despite the aforementioned power disadvantage, it's safe to assume BMW had to reconsider that conservatism — at least in this unique circumstance. Otherwise, it would be dealing with endless questions of why the Supra was quicker.

The Z4 sDrive30i does not get an updated time, with its 0-60 estimate holding firm at 5.2 seconds.

In the end, let this be yet another reminder to not take 0-60 times too seriously. Differing methodologies, be it between car companies or testing publications, mean that the exact same car producing the exact same acceleration can be reported differently.

Source: https://www.autoblog.com/2019/01/14/bmw-z4-updated-0-60-time/

Weird move by BMW to publish an "updated" 0-60 time five hours after the counterpart (Supra) is released. Seems like they might be a little jealous that the Z4 debut didn't seem to garner much attention, but the Supra has been extremely popular.

 

[supra93]

It seems that the Cayman is running a little faster than Porsche's 5.1s claim - MotorTrend got 0-60 in 4.5s with the PDK, which is most comparable to the Supra's 8AT. Supra is still faster on paper, and I hope it is in real life.

Definitely interested to see where sales of this car are at after the first model year. Did they publish sales goals yet?

Now that brings the price up to $60.1k. Yeah let's just wait for independent reviews.

I haven't seen anything so far.

 

[MKIVCrybaby]

Porsche 2.0T sounds like crap. Some of us look beyond the badge. Yes, I am aware. Check my updated post.

I'm not going keep going back and forth with you. It's obvious you don't like the car. Which is fine, to each their own, we will just have to agree to disagree and let the sales numbers spreak from themselves on wether it is a success or flop.

I dont think he likes the car either, but he makes sense.
If you use common sense, who would want to pay $55K-60K for a 335 hp car?
Doesnt a toyota camry have 301 hp?

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I'm not going to bother to reply to this thread. Gecko we have agreed on many things but disagreed on some as well. This is one of those examples. Go try to actually immerse yourself in the SupraMkV forums and try to understand. I moved there and I understood so much. BMW are just salty the Supra is getting so much love and press attention. BMW are just sour that the Supra will remain the legend and the Z4 will be just another Z4. BMW will be irrelevant soon. PERIOD.

I have infinite reasons as to why the Supra is the most important car of this year, if not the decade.

 

[MKIVCrybaby]

I'm not going to bother to reply to this thread.

Thanks for replying to the thread.

I'm not going to bother to reply to this thread. Gecko we have agreed on many things but disagreed on some as well. This is one of those examples. Go try to actually immerse yourself in the SupraMkV forums and try to understand. I moved there and I understood so much. BMW are just salty the Supra is getting so much love and press attention. BMW are just sour that the Supra will remain the legend and the Z4 will be just another Z4. BMW will be irrelevant soon. PERIOD.

I have infinite reasons as to why the Supra is the most important car of this year, if not the decade.

From my 30 mins on the forum, it consists of a lot of fan boys including the moderators.
If the BMW will be irrelevant wont the supra be also? They are nearly the same besides on power.
I just saw the comparison of the supra and z4. The interior is identical, but USA z4 gets 382 hp vs 335 hp supra?
Im so lost in this translation.
I have a feeling that the supra will be quickly forgotten by the next week.

 

[Gecko]

Go try to actually immerse yourself in the SupraMkV forums and try to understand.

I actually tried that but the moderators were deleting (constructive) negative/critical posts this morning during the reveal, so that doesn't seem like a fair or balanced environment for "understanding." People expressing concern about the price, specs and power were quickly silenced - I watched the threads as comments were removed. If the admins and moderators can't accept dissenting opinions, I think that says a lot about their insecurity around the launch of this car.

I moved there and I understood so much. BMW are just salty the Supra is getting so much love and press attention. BMW are just sour that the Supra will remain the legend and the Z4 will be just another Z4. BMW will be irrelevant soon. PERIOD.

I have infinite reasons as to why the Supra is the most important car of this year, if not the decade.

I agree with you that BMW is salty about the press attention received by the Supra, thus their re-issuance of the Z4's 0-60 time 5 hours after the Supra reveal. LOL. However, that forum is full of "insiders" who all had information that turned out to be utterly false and fabricated. Up until the 11th hour, many folks with "inside information" were stating 3,200lb curb weight and 380hp, cast iron block, Toyota-dedicated engine tune, etc... so going forward, I think I will limit my learning opportunities to official release materials from Toyota themselves.

Also, I am very curious to know your thoughts on the Supra being the most important car of the decade. That is a very bold claim and as I am trying to better understand this car, I welcome your thoughts.

 

[Gecko]

I want to say that while my view of the Supra probably comes across as negative right now, that is not what I hope for this car at all. The reinvention of the Supra nameplate 22 years after the last one is a big deal, and in this environment, its resurrection is no small feat. The current business environment, shopper preference for SUVs and retirement of some key models like the GS and IS F, all makes the introduction of this Supra even more critical. In an era where the case for performance cars is getting even harder to make, Toyota resurrected their most famous performance nameplate and I respect that act.

With that said, I am worried that based on the specs and price, this car will struggle to sell after the initial model year when the hype wears off. On paper, at least, it really is in "no man's land" between cars like the Camaro and Mustang, and Corvette and M2. Maybe it will thrive in that awkward space and be a huge success story. My worry is that if it doesn't, Toyota will probably say, "Well, we tried and it didn't sell, so we're throwing in the towel on sports cars. Case closed." There are plenty of times where Toyota has done this historically, and this Supra is a critical moment.

Toyota has a history of awkwardly positioned and priced performance vehicles like the LFA (which I would consider a success), 86 (which I would consider a success), RC F, GS F, and now this Supra. Maybe they are paving their own way and don't care about sales. Maybe I am very wrong and this car will be a huge success. I really hope so, but am also very worried with what we saw today.

 

[supra93]

I dont think he likes the car either, but he makes sense.
If you use common sense, who would want to pay $55K-60K for a 335 hp car?
Doesnt a toyota camry have 301 hp?

For the 100x. It starts at $49,900, and hp is underrated
Ok going by that logical NO one should be buying a: SLC, Cayman, Z4, TT, F-Type, 4C, and etc.
And didn't the Chevrolet SS sedan also 415hp compared to the 455hp base C7?

Either way, this can't be more of a flop than the RC-F and GS-F. :joy:

From my 30 mins on the forum, it consists of a lot of fan boys including the moderators.
I just saw the comparison of the supra and z4. The interior is identical, but USA z4 gets 382 hp vs 335 hp supra?
Im so lost in this translation.
I have a feeling that the supra will be quickly forgotten by the next week.

Guff criticized the feel of the inside, but ok.
No it's not, while it does have BMW parts the interior is different.
$65k vs $50k. Yeah I'll take $15k savings for the .3 seconds time differences.

 

[Gecko]

I actually much prefer the interior design of the Supra - I like the dash being flatter and more symmetrical, vs how it's slanted towards the driver in the Z4.

With regard to interior and exterior design, Toyota did a great job :thumbsup:

 

[supra93]

I actually much prefer the interior design of the Supra - I like the dash being flatter and more symmetrical, vs how it's slanted towards the driver in the Z4.

With regard to interior and exterior design, Toyota did a great job :thumbsup:

I actually prefer the interior the of Z4. :joy:

Quick edit: I think things are getting a little out of hand. Most of you will probably agree with this. Is the new Supra the best bang for your buck? Of course not, but at the same time it isn't the worst either. Different strokes for different folks!

 

[Gecko]

I actually prefer the interior the of Z4. :joy:

Quick edit: I think things are getting a little out of hand. Most of you will probably agree with this. Is the new Supra the best bang for your buck? Of course not, but at the same time it isn't the worst either. Different strokes for different folks!

Different strokes for different folks is definitely true .

What do you mean by "Out of hand"? I feel like the conversation here has been civil and constructive so far. Or do you mean the overall reception to the car?

 

[mediumhot]

Supra has previous generation interior bits from BMW unlike Z4 which gets to pick from newer part bin.
Also from my understanding even the paint job comes from BMW palette.

I think California studio did a much better job with exterior design compared to BMW which went crazy with sharp line décor on such a small sheet. Supra definitely looks like a Cayman competitor.

But other than that whole car is a BMW with Toyota badge. I even doubt they got the access to mess with the proprietary firmware of transmission and PU.

 

[bogglo]

IMO. For toyota to Price this car the way they priced it with the specs in comparison to all the cars listed above, something tells me both Toyota and BMW have not really come clean about the actual specs of these cars.

with the weight @Gecko posted above

Z4 0 - 60 = 3.9secs
Supra = 4.1 secs
Corvette stingray = 3.7 secs (more power and lighter than the Z4 if i'm correct )
GT350 = 4.3 secs

So I think we will have to wait a little to gather all the facts. the real world test from consumers will shine a light on it.

 

[supra93]

What do you mean by "Out of hand"? I feel like the conversation here has been civil and constructive so far. Or do you mean the overall reception to the car?

Poor word choice. Was thinking "before things get out of hand". I was in a rush before heading off.

IMO. For toyota to Price this car the way they priced it with the specs in comparison to all the cars listed above, something tells me both Toyota and BMW have not really come clean about the actual specs of these cars.

with the weight @Gecko posted above

Z4 0 - 60 = 3.9secs
Supra = 4.1 secs
Corvette stingray = 3.7 secs (more power and lighter than the Z4 if i'm correct )
GT350 = 4.3 secs

So I think we will have to wait a little to gather all the facts. the real world test from consumers will shine a light on it.

I was thinking the same thing; kinda like the gentlemen's agreement.

 

[mikeavelli]

Renderings, lowered on some larger Vossen Forged Wheels....

 

[mikeavelli]

My two cents, while I think the power numbers might underwhelm I think for 56k loaded its pretty good and surely tunable a bit. I think the interior is nice, the exterior is nice as well and there is a bit of nostalgic value. What was rough is when someone told me the 370Z has 332hp and starts at 29k.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Thanks for replying to the thread.



From my 30 mins on the forum, it consists of a lot of fan boys including the moderators.
If the BMW will be irrelevant wont the supra be also? They are nearly the same besides on power.
I just saw the comparison of the supra and z4. The interior is identical, but USA z4 gets 382 hp vs 335 hp supra?
Im so lost in this translation.
I have a feeling that the supra will be quickly forgotten by the next week.

Hey bub. I didn't ask you. So there is no need for you to try to be edgy/funny. I'm talking to Gecko. We always have fair and just discussions so we don't need you to intervene.

@Gecko Now that you fully explain what you meant, I see where you are coming from. However there is way more to the Supra than what meets the eye. It just needs people to give it a chance. At least if you have an opposing opinion, you back up with reasons. The reason why I am slightly a little pissed right now is that these "enthusiasts" who actually don't know ANYTHING about it just blindingly calling it a Z4 and saying they "ruined the Supra" or it's legacy. What gets me so angry is that the MkIV is actually a very flawed car. And every Supra is different every single generation. The thing is, THEY KNOW what people think is the "legacy" of the Supra but the people's thinking process about the "legacy" of the Supra is flat out wrong. That's why you see that kind of presentation from these guys. This car will be a success. These idiotic "enthusiasts" have no clue what they're talking about (not you, because you have REASONS and very valid reasons at that, I applaud you for actually maintaining your stance on things while being level-headed, I enjoy debating with you). But honestly this car will do well. Time will tell! It is as simple as that.