spwolf

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The announced 400km range of the UX is given in NEDC, whereas best market performers in the compact cross-over segment (Hyundai Kona EV, Kia e-Niro and Kia e- Soul) achieve 450 kms in WLTP. I guess the UX in WLTP will get max. 350 kms.
This is a serious disappointment to me, especially combined with an estimated price level of 50k €.
Also the onboard charging capacity is very low.

Lexus is too much of a late follower, but should be in the forefront of electrification if it still wants to try to achieve something in Europe.
Manufacturer EV range quotes are for reference only. Some overpromise while some underpromise. Lexus is giving a very conservative estimate here. We'll have to see real world tests to judge the true range.

The Kona EV (Niro is basically the same thing) is an exception not a rule in this segment. It has a very impressive spec sheet. But somehow it doesn't translate into good sales figures (I guess exploding in a garage didn't help with its reputation). But anyway I see this as a very weird comparison. People will never cross-shop a UX300 with a Kona.

The charging speed is indeed a disappointment.


Not to mention that in Portugal, where we have UX300e pricing form, Kona is actually 2.5k more expensive than UX300e.

So look at it from buyer perspective, and not "has to be highest everything possible".

It is Lexus UX300e that is similar to ID3 pricing (cheap econobox), cheaper than Kona EV (very cheap econobox that is priced 25k more than its base engine version), and 17k cheaper than Tesla Model Y.

It is not just enough to get 1000 KM in EV, you need to have a good balance of car, ev features and price of course.
 

Levi

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From 2020 bev incentives change in France. 6.000€ for cars priced till 45.000€. Half, so 3.000€, for cars priced above. And no incentive at all for bevs priced above 60.000€.

If a bev starts at 44k, and you add 2k in trim or options, you lose 3k in incentives.
 

spwolf

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From 2020 bev incentives change in France. 6.000€ for cars priced till 45.000€. Half, so 3.000€, for cars priced above. And no incentive at all for bevs priced above 60.000€.

If a bev starts at 44k, and you add 2k in trim or options, you lose 3k in incentives.

Looks like UX300e will be priced well for that.
 

Will1991

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Not to mention that in Portugal, where we have UX300e pricing form, Kona is actually 2.5k more expensive than UX300e.

Maybe I didn’t express myself right, those prices are for UX250h.

The reason was to show, here in Portugal, they can’t place any considerable premium over the hybrid one.
 

krew

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19-11-23-lexus-ux-ev-video.jpg

Here’s the launch video for the new Lexus UX 300e pure-electric vehicle:

(While there may be some logic to the decision not to bring the new EV to North America, it’s still a disappointment. The new powertrain suits the UX design, and the tech appears to be well integrated and thoughtfully executed.)

Continue reading...


 

mediumhot

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Good Lord they seriously need to consider better motion graphic designers and information architects. Amount of redundant information is staggering, there are last minute like tack-ons such as time and temperature besides empty and unused space on right hand side that is there to remind you that you are sitting inside Lexus I guess. But the biggest offender is that fuel gauge all together with digital needle cause a) it doesn't make sense to show battery level like that b) it takes a lot of screen yet somehow numbers and lines are almost touching the outer edges c) that gas station fuel pump icon with a plug is like wtf edit: d. it's obviously there to save cost

Current UX F-Sport gauge wipes the floor with this one.
 

CT200h

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View attachment 3600

Good Lord they seriously need to consider better motion graphic designers and information architects. Amount of redundant information is staggering, there are last minute like tack-ons such as time and temperature besides empty and unused space on right hand side that is there to remind you that you are sitting inside Lexus I guess. But the biggest offender is that fuel gauge all together with digital needle cause a) it doesn't make sense to show battery level like that b) it takes a lot of screen yet somehow numbers and lines are almost touching the outer edges c) that gas station fuel pump icon with a plug is like wtf edit: d. it's obviously there to save cost

Current UX F-Sport gauge wipes the floor with this one.
The fuel gauge is pretty funny, it looks like they used the same format and just threw together a display.
 

ssun30

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What a load of nonsense. As much as I despise electrek, that Toyota executive is just embarrassing himself by saying things so ignorant.
 
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CRSKTN

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This interview is insane.

It actually is.

I'll say this without going into too much of my own background, but what is going on in Toyota with regards to approved corporate positions?

TMC is sending so many mixed messages it's crazy. It feels like there is little to no consensus internally on their views, more like they've developed a roadmap and are now trying to ex-post create a justification for it.

Also, that interview is also insane not just because of the positions taken, but the fact that they have reps walking around out there speaking like this about things that could potentially significantly impact investors' views on where TMC is headed to as a publicly traded going concern.

“We are continuously working on EV entries,” he said. “But right now, there’s no demand.”
You don't say that. Seriously. It doesn't benefit TMC at all to not only state something demonstrably false, but to also basically admonish a group of early-adopter consumers of EVs who are likely quite sensitive to how they are treated (given where the market is currently). It should have been qualified somehow, something like "but right now, the demand isn't sufficient to push EVs ahead of every other project going on in a rush to market", which would have been a better answer.

Let's consider scenarios:
1) This is legitimately accurate and representative of TMC's internal research and strategy (unlikely).
Implication: This means TMC knows something everyone else doesn't (also slightly unlikely), or there is something critically wrong with their market analysis. Either way, this is not a good look.
2) This is a paraphrasing of a more nuanced interpretation, such as "it's not big enough yet for us to rush to hit it before all others" (more likely). Implication: The analysis being done is solid, but it's either not being communicated well to people internally, or they have poor corporate controls in place to manage communications to press. This isn't a good look either, but it's better than (1).
3) Electrek.co has historically been pro-Tesla in my view more than general pro-EV, i suspect potential bias (investor?), and this might be a case of "we decided to interpret everything you said in the worst light possible". Somewhat likely scenario here, but still Toyota needs to be more wary of who they are speaking to if they predict possible bad faith behavior.
4) An employee made some off hand comments based on their personal views more than internal TMC strategy, combined with sloppy reporting with potential bias, resulted in a very very bad look for TMC. This plus their recent emissions move in the US has really hurt their goodwill, but i don't know if we should read too much into their BEV plans.

If the 2020 games aren't a really strong showing for Lexus, I think that's a potentially bad sign of where things are at.
 

CT200h

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This co has a huge loyal customer base( including me!) and is super strong financially and capable of out engineering any car co. They have also lead with hybrids but that creates the desire for full EV experience in many of these owners . When EV fails to be an offering from them some go elsewhere , reluctantly. They can play this market as they see fit , wait for others to invest move ,fail and then learn from them .I think that’s what we are seeing and it’s not easy for them to explain.
 
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spwolf

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What a load of nonsense. As much as I despise electrek, that Toyota executive is just embarrassing himself by saying things so ignorant.

He is talking about NA market that he works for.

Where they have to sell Prius Prime with incentives so its price is lower than standard Prius.

Where Plugin vehicle sales dropped by 4 months straight YoY after Model 3 pentup demand was satisfied:

US-A-10-2019-1120x362.png


US-L-10-2019.png



“With October sales witnessing a 33 per cent decline, the sector is now in reverse for the year. The negative trend is much likely to stay for the remainder of 2019 and the first half of 2020,” the report said.

The bleak picture is caused by a variety of factors. As compared to the first half of 2018, Tesla delivered on all the pent up demand for the Model-3. While sales remain in the USA and Canada only; exports to other markets did not start before Q1 of 2019.

Moreover, many OEMs sold fewer plug-ins in 2019 that they did last year. Whereas the European importers held the line, plug-in sales by the Big-3 were down 28 per cent so far and Japanese brands lost 22 per cent.
 

spwolf

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Model Y and Mustang are next up, but for Mustang they have capacity of 50k units per year, so that will not increase overall sales substantially.
 

internalaudit

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I think some of us are only loyal as long as there are no ground-breaking, compelling BEVs coming out of the competition. If by 2024/25, Lexus has only released two SUV BEVs, I may start look at competing offerings if the Toyota ones are oh so ho-hum. I would settle for a NX BEV but only if it has some sort of torque vectoring, I guess brake-based will do lol (better than nothing). Even Honda is tight-lipped and only announced one other BEV after the Honda E.

Good thing most of us here agree that Tesla reliability is suspect and fuel savings could easily be eclipsed with post-warranty repairs down the road. Which means, there are not a lot of compelling BEVs out there yet that are priced below $80k USD.

Even the Audi e-tron seems to only have brake-based torque vectoring.
 

spwolf

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I think some of us are only loyal as long as there are no ground-breaking, compelling BEVs coming out of the competition. If by 2024/25, Lexus has only released two SUV BEVs, I may start look at competing offerings if the Toyota ones are oh so ho-hum. I would settle for a NX BEV but only if it has some sort of torque vectoring, I guess brake-based will do lol (better than nothing). Even Honda is tight-lipped and only announced one other BEV after the Honda E.

Good thing most of us here agree that Tesla reliability is suspect and fuel savings could easily be eclipsed with post-warranty repairs down the road. Which means, there are not a lot of compelling BEVs out there yet that are priced below $80k USD.

Even the Audi e-tron seems to only have brake-based torque vectoring.

I am sure Toyota and Lexus will release 5+ by 2025 (i think they mentioned way more), but I think best way to get what we want out of them is to buy a vehicle we like, despite the brand.

Voting with the valet always helps.
 

internalaudit

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I am sure Toyota and Lexus will release 5+ by 2025 (i think they mentioned way more), but I think best way to get what we want out of them is to buy a vehicle we like, despite the brand.

Voting with the valet always helps.

Two more for Lexus (2022 and 2024) based on information posted here and 10 for Toyota by BEV according to:

But Toyota/Lexus spokespeople should not keep providing mixed messages. If it's a gamut of BEV by 2025 with most coming in later in that period (like 2023/24), so be it, they shouldn't keep posting conflicting information. I wouldn't mind waiting since I think 2024-26 would be the best time for me to jump in with technologies evolving. I just really want a safer and longer lasting battery and some sort of torque vectoring (even if brake-based, I'm good with that if it's a Lexus or Toyota). Maybe regen will take the brunt of the beating anyway lol.

Mixed messages (ok to BEV followed by BEV has no future) is going to confuse people like us to jump ship and try a different brand.

Definitely rooting for Lexus and Acura but we all know Lexus is a more reliable make. :)
 

Ian Schmidt

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Mixed messages (ok to BEV followed by BEV has no future) is going to confuse people like us to jump ship and try a different brand.

It's worth noting that the messages aren't quite *that* mixed. Toyota globally is rolling out several BEVs. They aren't in the US, and their US manager stated that there's not currently a strong market for them in the US, which is accurate. It's not all that different from the current situation where Europe and the Middle East get a diesel LX and the US doesn't.
 

Will1991

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I am sure Toyota and Lexus will release 5+ by 2025 (i think they mentioned way more), but I think best way to get what we want out of them is to buy a vehicle we like, despite the brand.

Voting with the valet always helps.

Which can be tricky if you only like them from Toyota or Lexus : )

And I agree with you @internalaudit , the biggest problem is this confusing messages... They should be more careful, specially when we're talking of key roles inside their organization! We all know electrek is pro-Tesla, and even that "ToyotaTrump" PR nightmare wasn't enough to improve how they manage communications? For a company like Toyota this should be normal and not a request! Even if they didn't had any clue how to build a BEV they should say they're working on it...

Also, it's a bit strange Tesla sells more than Lexus in key markets despite lack of market.
 

internalaudit

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It's worth noting that the messages aren't quite *that* mixed. Toyota globally is rolling out several BEVs. They aren't in the US, and their US manager stated that there's not currently a strong market for them in the US, which is accurate. It's not all that different from the current situation where Europe and the Middle East get a diesel LX and the US doesn't.

It's just a pure conjecture on my part but I think the UX300e will have a much lower demand if it's price just $5k below the Tesla Model 3 Short Range Plus here in Canada ($55k CAD). That base model will be priced like the most expensive trim Niro and Kona BEVs and about $8k more than the base UX250h.

Cargo area is small compared to the Q3 or other German offerings. I don't think the UX300e comes with AWD either ( though I may be wrong).

With a NX and IS AWD BEVs though vying for top spots in the most competitive segments, I think Lexus will have a great shot at increase sales and renewed brand vigor. I just hope they make these RWD-biased, offer some sort of cheaper clutch-based torque vectoring (Toyota already has that on the 5th gen RAV4 --Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD system; even the Porsche Taycan doesn't have three electric motors so it most likely just borrowed the clutch-based torque vectoring from its ICEVs ) and provide a decent range. CA/AA will be standard (hopefully so is the touch screen) so no worries about all those Lexus infotainment complaints.

For those who suggest torque vectoring is only for increased cornering capabilities at really high speeds, think again. It's more useful than what people make of it. It helps during hydroplanning, extreme maneuvers (like avoiding a crash with jerks), etc.
 
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