The V35 weighs 182kg dry and 210kg wet. That's 25kg lighter than 2UR and 21kg heavier than 2GR.
- Thread starter ssun30
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In some cases they're bigger but they're actually MORE efficient......
B58 vs T24A
Ouch.
Our 2023 Toyota Tundra Hybrid Is Thirstier Than Advertised
Averaging 16 mpg after 10,000 miles, the truck's hybrid V-6 is guzzling gas like it's a V-8.
I understand that these downsized engines are mainly for emissions, but then other brands have no problems continuing the use big displacement V8s, plus completely scrapping an existing engine that probably has room left for improvement and starting all over again with a new and rather complicated design doesn't sound very Toyota-like, doesn't it? Toyota of the past would have modified the current engines within reason until there's no room left for any meaningful improvements. Or is this them trying to maintain their eco friendly image? Even though there's nothing environmentally friendly about a turbo V6 pick-up truck that eats just as much if not more fuel than a V8 pick-up truck.
mikeavelli
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I was going to say it’s because of weight but I just researched this and my head is scratching…
Nissan GTR TTV-6 no hybrid similar power and 15 years old
18 City 22 Highway
Acura/Honda NSX TTV-6 hybrid similar power
21 City 22 Highway
McLaren Artura TTV-6 hybrid similar power
18 City 21 Highway
Chevy Corvette V-6 50 less hp
19 City 24 Highway
Chevy Z06 80 or so more hp
15 City 22 Highway
Porsche 911 Turbo S 80 or so more hp
15 City 21 Highway
The Chevy and Porsche have owners saying they get around or even 30 MPG highway..
So it seems with big heavy trucks or with performance cars, hybrid MPG gains are pretty negligible. Which is why you have owners clamoring for a V-8 still. I would imagine a new V-8 would be pretty efficient especially on the highway. I will say the instant torque of the imax vs the regular v-6 is definitely appreciated. It would be fantastic to have on the LX
Nissan GTR TTV-6 no hybrid similar power and 15 years old
18 City 22 Highway
Acura/Honda NSX TTV-6 hybrid similar power
21 City 22 Highway
McLaren Artura TTV-6 hybrid similar power
18 City 21 Highway
Chevy Corvette V-6 50 less hp
19 City 24 Highway
Chevy Z06 80 or so more hp
15 City 22 Highway
Porsche 911 Turbo S 80 or so more hp
15 City 21 Highway
The Chevy and Porsche have owners saying they get around or even 30 MPG highway..
So it seems with big heavy trucks or with performance cars, hybrid MPG gains are pretty negligible. Which is why you have owners clamoring for a V-8 still. I would imagine a new V-8 would be pretty efficient especially on the highway. I will say the instant torque of the imax vs the regular v-6 is definitely appreciated. It would be fantastic to have on the LX
qtb007
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It's hard to say exactly what the engine is worth since the platform, engine, and transmission all changed, but fuelly shows an average of 13-14mpg for the previous gen Tundra and 16.5-17.5mpg for the new truck. That's roughly a 25% bump. I'd wager that the car and driver guys are not being easy on the throttle. The power of the turbo hybrid is pretty intoxicating.😬Our 2023 Toyota Tundra Hybrid Is Thirstier Than Advertised
Averaging 16 mpg after 10,000 miles, the truck's hybrid V-6 is guzzling gas like it's a V-8.www.caranddriver.com
I understand that these downsized engines are mainly for emissions, but then other brands have no problems continuing the use big displacement V8s, plus completely scrapping an existing engine that probably has room left for improvement and starting all over again with a new and rather complicated design doesn't sound very Toyota-like, doesn't it? Toyota of the past would have modified the current engines within reason until there's no room left for any meaningful improvements. Or is this them trying to maintain their eco friendly image? Even though there's nothing environmentally friendly about a turbo V6 pick-up truck that eats just as much if not more fuel than a V8 pick-up truck.
Just looking at the high volume V8 versions of the Silverado (5.3) and F150 (5.0), they are also hovering around 16-17mpg.
They took out Miller cycle operation (Atkinson Cycle) out of the DF turbo engines. That's the primary reason why 2UR is so efficient on the highway. It's 8-10% flat gain in efficiency under continuous low load.
Toyota was a pioneer of Miller cycle turbo engine with the 8AR-FTS. Since then most of the industry have adopted the tech (VW TSI Gen 3, Honda Earth dreams, Ford EcoBoost). It improves fuel economy when there's no boost. But then they throw that away on V35 and T24. And it's the G16 that kept this technology. It's all about keeping costs down.
But that's just what you have to live with when you are buying from the most profitable company in the business.
BMW, GM, Hyundai, Nissan, Stellantis use continuous VVL instead of Miller cycle. But the goal is the same: to reduce pumping loss by equalizing pressure in the intake manifold with atmosphere. CVVL has added benefit of better top end power at cost of heavier and taller engine.
Toyota was a pioneer of Miller cycle turbo engine with the 8AR-FTS. Since then most of the industry have adopted the tech (VW TSI Gen 3, Honda Earth dreams, Ford EcoBoost). It improves fuel economy when there's no boost. But then they throw that away on V35 and T24. And it's the G16 that kept this technology. It's all about keeping costs down.
But that's just what you have to live with when you are buying from the most profitable company in the business.
BMW, GM, Hyundai, Nissan, Stellantis use continuous VVL instead of Miller cycle. But the goal is the same: to reduce pumping loss by equalizing pressure in the intake manifold with atmosphere. CVVL has added benefit of better top end power at cost of heavier and taller engine.
F1 Silver Arrows
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Exactly the engine I was referring to.
Gecko
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Not sure what happened. My finger slipped.
F1 Silver Arrows
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I find it hilarious how initially I was the only user who single-handedly kept promoting the B58 in a Lexus form but now it has reached a point where practically everyone here loves the B58.
The B58 is SO good that everyone here appreciates it. What a time we live in.
I know we have Toyota and Lexus employees surf this forum. For the love of all that is mighty... please build an excellent inline-six. Chop two cylinders off of that and have an efficient inline-four. It doesn't hurt to have one or even two efficient, yet powerful V8s. When Toyota/Lexus puts their mind to something they can build world-beaters. They're already on a roll, so this is merely the next step.
The B58 is SO good that everyone here appreciates it. What a time we live in.
I know we have Toyota and Lexus employees surf this forum. For the love of all that is mighty... please build an excellent inline-six. Chop two cylinders off of that and have an efficient inline-four. It doesn't hurt to have one or even two efficient, yet powerful V8s. When Toyota/Lexus puts their mind to something they can build world-beaters. They're already on a roll, so this is merely the next step.
I once had to hardcore hypermile my 440 since I forgot to refuel and was running on fumes and the nearest gas station was 11 mi away. Got 53.5 MPG (4.4L/100km) average over that distance (driving from a higher elevation to lower elevation certainly helped). I don't know how well their new 48V BSG system work. The 12V Efficient Dynamics system is the most effective micro-hybrid system I've ever seen.
Having a good transmission also helps a lot. My 440 was just in for a major maintenance and I now have a 228 GC as a loaner. It's a FWD platform so it uses the same Aisin transverse 8AT used by Toyota. And this transmission absolutely ruined the wonderful B48. Response is terrible. Shifts are jerky (the least smooth I've experienced on an automatic car). Fuel economy is garbage (only averaged 25 MPG over my usual commute while I usually get 23 with the 440). It feels almost identical as a NX350 with a B48 instead of T24.
Having a good transmission also helps a lot. My 440 was just in for a major maintenance and I now have a 228 GC as a loaner. It's a FWD platform so it uses the same Aisin transverse 8AT used by Toyota. And this transmission absolutely ruined the wonderful B48. Response is terrible. Shifts are jerky (the least smooth I've experienced on an automatic car). Fuel economy is garbage (only averaged 25 MPG over my usual commute while I usually get 23 with the 440). It feels almost identical as a NX350 with a B48 instead of T24.
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Would you have any guess why they'd do that for the turbos? Since they used it on the 8AR
So you are saying the gearbox is important? It ruin a good engine or oppositely make e we indeed to s mediocre engine?
dylanfoos
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"Lexus LC and RC integrated with shock specs and commercialization!?"
qtb007
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I have a B48 with a 6MT and it's not impressive at all. It gets decent gas mileage on all highway driving (mid 30s) but it guzzles the fuel around town (low 20s). That would to tolerable other than the performance is nothing to write home about. Completely dead over 4000RPM. Maybe the higher state of tune version is better, but it's wholly unimpressive to me.
Gecko
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Toyota lending me a GR Supra 3.0 for a press drive was one of the best - and yet worst - things that has ever happened in my time as an automotive enthusiast. Not to keep go on about it, but there is just no comparison to V35A, much less the T24. UR V8 has it's own charm that makes it special but the B58 is simply BMW's best work. Hopefully Lexus can perfect their new engines like BMW has done over time with their I6s.
I'm afraid it's already too late for Lexus. They're going all in on BEV's. The TTV8 will be their last ICE. As for Toyota, they're still working on ICE powertrains, or at least converting existing engines to run on hydrogen. Will they build another inline 6? Maybe, but they could use Mazda's inline 6 instead. They had all the time in the world to develop an inline 6 and didn't for the Supra so I don't see it especially this late in the game for the ICE. I hope I'm wrong though!
The 140kw version or 170kw or 190kw?
The 140kW is the worst tuned of them all. Also probably the least reliable because they are cheaping out on a lot of components.