Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[Ian Schmidt]

They fixed the lag issues last year as for the land cruiser and lx600 they were better than ls500

The 2021+ LS500 is much better on the lag as well because of a completely reprogrammed ECU/TCU. It's not gonna be mistaken for a naturally aspirated car, but people who didn't daily one don't know how gutless the 4.6 V8 was the way it was tuned in the LS either.

 

[UZJ100GXR]

All I know is the twin turbo 3.5 lc300 obliterates the 5.7 in a drag race....

And also feels much better to drive in the dunes too.

When you get used to dailying a twin turbo 300 it is abit difficult going back to the 5.7.

 

[Heicho]

All I know is the twin turbo 3.5 lc300 obliterates the 5.7 in a drag race....

And also feels much better to drive in the dunes too.

When you get used to dailying a twin turbo 300 it is abit difficult going back to the 5.7.

Imagine an updated 5.7 motor in the 300..

 

[NomadDan]

Yes some of the videos i have seen show damage to the cylinder due to mistiming of the exhaust valve also saw one of th g16 gtse not a widespread nevertheless does plague some powertrains that a25, t24, m20, m15 have all proven to be very reliable so lets wait and see if more issues turn up.

I think it’s still too early to tell if the T24 is a good engine. So far I haven’t heard of any issues in the Lexus lineup, but I think it’s still too early to tell if any issues creep up in the Toyota lineup, especially the longitudinal hybrid applications. As I understand it, the T24 is a simpler design compared to the V35 (aside from the obvious I4 vs V6), so I have a bit more faith in it.

I think the V35 will end up being a good engine, but I don’t think it’ll see the million mile mileage that the 2UZ has seen. At least not with expensive turbo and battery pack replacements. I expect resale values to plummet accordingly.

Toyota makes really good drivetrains, but they’re not immune to making duds either. See 12 valve 3.0 V6 (3VZ-E) as an example.

Imagine an updated 5.7 motor in the 300..

I mentioned this before, but I’d like to see Toyota offer the 5.0 in the Tundra. It makes less torque but way more hp than the 5.7, and I would think Toyota could offer a version that trades hp for torque to match or beat the output of the 5.7. The 5.0 combined with the 10 speed should offer a bit more fuel economy vs the 5.7. Plus Toyota would be consolidating its V8 production to one engine.

 

[UZJ100GXR]

Imagine an updated 5.7 motor in the 300..

You know I thought about this before.
The 1GR in the LC300 is the same as the later LC200, but it feels way more powerful to drive compared to the LC200.

All this thanks to the weight loss.

The 5.7 even without updates on the 300 would probably perform very well.

 

[Gecko]

One of the most positive advancements with the V35A powertrain is the 10AT vs the 6 or 8AT with the 5.7L V8. Shifts are shorter and much faster, and there are more gears, which all make a big difference with drivability and responsiveness. Transmission tuning with the 1UR-FE V8 was awfully slow and dull, though it did have the benefit of more linear throttle response from being N/A.

Something like a theoretical "2UR-FKS" with a 10AT could have probably been a great engine for LX, LS, LC, Land Cruiser, Tundra, etc. but the question becomes if it would have been significantly more capable or powerful than the V35A-FTS to create a viable business case? Is it really necessary? Feels like V8s would need turbos to make them make sense over the V35A in most applications. 409-415hp and 442-479lb-ft is pretty close to what I would expect a "2UR-FKS" to put down... so what's the point? V35A is already there, plus more efficient and compact.

I do think V35A-FTS is a great engine for 90% of buyers who aren't dipping into the throttle often and frustrated with turbo lag, especially after they fixed the rough idle issue. Lexus should let their hair down a bit with F SPORT or potential FSP models that have sportier transmission tuning and richer tunes. For example, why can't LS 500 and LX 600 F SPORT have 450hp and 500lb-ft of torque? That's not asking for much at all.

I think the issue is that Lexus considers the V35A a flagship engine when it's really just a mid-tier powerplant compared to the competition which all have V8s, turbo V8s, PHEV systems or pure EVs. It's just down on power and let's be honest, that matters when you're spending $80k+.

 

[Heicho]

Will the 4.0 TTV8 see any applications outside the LFR?

 

[Gecko]

Unfortunately, I don't think so.

 

[Levi]

The V6 (V35A) is somehow in no man’s land. Yes it is compact, but it is mounted in vehicles that are large and could easily fit a V8 turbo, also compact after all, namely LS, LC, LX/Landcruiser, GX, Tundra/Sequoia. Toyota’s hybrid V6 still is the 2GR, compared to it, the V35A does not offer as much of an advantage as a V8 turbo could, it can’t compete against Germans.

Looking at other cases is the same story, I don’t see the point of Maserati Granturismo with V6.

 

[Levi]

Now we say it is to late, Lexus made the V35A, but who asked them to build a V6, neither I4 which is very common not V8 which is very common in high-end. They did not make a “cheap” modular I6 as all others ( BMW, Mercedes, JLR, Stellantis). In how many cars was the V35A sold? In only one car, the LS, until that large BOF models came. Don’t tell they made economies of scale, and this investment to build a V6 from scratch was worth it. The LS is quite a lot of qualities, but it is a flop unfortunately.

 

[CRSKTN]

Balancing Capital efficiencies on one hand and emissions policy hurdles on the other couldn't have made it easy.

I think shifting to BEV enhanced performance has bailed them out.

Put a small eAxle on it to boost the low end and provide basic luxury EV hallmarks like low speed silence and seamless, start/stop, and some of their advanced parking stuff which is electric tied.

The top end LS is already the hybrid and everything seems to point to the LS as a tech development platform for the next step change to try and figure out where the large full size sedan exists (see new Lamborgini raised sedan concept?)

The Crown, LM and other recent offerings feel like R&D offsheds and applied projects.

I can't imagine the next LS won't focus on miniaturization of components like Lucid has, improved manufacturing, improved interior space and packaging, and applying everything they've learned for self driving, luxury interiors and tech, etc.

 

[ssun30]

What's the verdict on the Type 17 V35's reliability on the LS?

It's the most complicated ICE ever made by TMC. Way over engineered for its power class. It even has double intake system which tends to be a reliability and serviceability nightmare on BMW engines.

 

[Levi]

The RZ is a well made car, but it is by far not a BEV equivalent of a TTV8 LF-1.

 

[NomadDan]

Something like a theoretical "2UR-FKS" with a 10AT could have probably been a great engine for LX, LS, LC, Land Cruiser, Tundra, etc. but the question becomes if it would have been significantly more capable or powerful than the V35A-FTS to create a viable business case? Is it really necessary? Feels like V8s would need turbos to make them make sense over the V35A in most applications. 409-415hp and 442-479lb-ft is pretty close to what I would expect a "2UR-FKS" to put down... so what's the point? V35A is already there, plus more efficient and compact.

If a 5.0 were available in the BOF products, I think it would be just an alternative drivetrain for those of us that would prefer the simplicity of a NA V8 over a TT V6. The V35 would put down more power and probably be more efficient. From a performance standpoint, the V35 would be superior (especially the hybrid), but lots of people just want something simple.

Ford offers five drivetrains in the F150, and at one point six. The 3.5 TT V6 hybrid is their top performing engine, but they still offer a 3.3 NA V6, 2.7 TT V6, 5.0 NA V8, and at one point the V6 diesel. I think the drivetrain options are one reason why the F150 is the top selling half-ton truck in the US.

As far as the TT V8 goes, Lexus should offer it in the LS, LC, and LX at the very least. Who know, maybe they could make a larger displacement NA version for BOF products too (I’m sure that won’t happen, but it sure would be nice).

 

[Heicho]

The RZ is a well made car, but it is by far not a BEV equivalent of a TTV8 LF-1.

The 2026 BEV flagship should be the spiritual successor to the LF-1..

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

If a 5.0 were available in the BOF products, I think it would be just an alternative drivetrain for those of us that would prefer the simplicity of a NA V8 over a TT V6. The V35 would put down more power and probably be more efficient. From a performance standpoint, the V35 would be superior (especially the hybrid), but lots of people just want something simple.

Ford offers five drivetrains in the F150, and at one point six. The 3.5 TT V6 hybrid is their top performing engine, but they still offer a 3.3 NA V6, 2.7 TT V6, 5.0 NA V8, and at one point the V6 diesel. I think the drivetrain options are one reason why the F150 is the top selling half-ton truck in the US.

As far as the TT V8 goes, Lexus should offer it in the LS, LC, and LX at the very least. Who know, maybe they could make a larger displacement NA version for BOF products too (I’m sure that won’t happen, but it sure would be nice).

They should offer the V8 in every Lexus RWD or and BOF SUV model IMHO.

EDIT: After I saw the reactions to this I realize I wanted to make an addendum from "or" to "and".

 

[ssun30]

Balancing Capital efficiencies on one hand and emissions policy hurdles on the other couldn't have made it easy.

I think shifting to BEV enhanced performance has bailed them out.

Put a small eAxle on it to boost the low end and provide basic luxury EV hallmarks like low speed silence and seamless, start/stop, and some of their advanced parking stuff which is electric tied.

The top end LS is already the hybrid and everything seems to point to the LS as a tech development platform for the next step change to try and figure out where the large full size sedan exists (see new Lamborgini raised sedan concept?)

The Crown, LM and other recent offerings feel like R&D offsheds and applied projects.

I can't imagine the next LS won't focus on miniaturization of components like Lucid has, improved manufacturing, improved interior space and packaging, and applying everything they've learned for self driving, luxury interiors and tech, etc.

I think one very important factor is they way overestimated their progress and underestimated the challenge of solid state batteries back in mid 2010s.

They originally expected SSB breakthrough to happen in 2021 and mass commercialization by ~2025. They might have bet on SSBs making lightweight and powerful PHEVs readily available. So imagine the V35 getting a SSB PHEV, that's easily 500+kW (680PS+) of power plus 100+km of EV range, without the heavy weight penalty (200kg+) of current PHEV systems. But in reality they are 4-5 years behind schedule.

They should offer the V8 in every Lexus RWD or BOF SUV model IMHO.

I don't understand why they are the only manufacturer that absolutely need to kill the V8 to satisfy CAFE and emissions. All their competitors seemed just fine with V8s (and selling them at scale). It always sounded like a bad excuse.

I understand the car media don't like asking hard questions but whenever a Toyota exec explain "we have to downsize because of emissions" somebody has to be wondering "right but why are your competitors still offering those bigger less efficient powertrains?"

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I don't understand why they are the only manufacturer that absolutely need to kill the V8 to satisfy CAFE and emissions. All their competitors seemed just fine with V8s (and selling them at scale). It always sounded like a bad excuse.

I understand the car media don't like asking hard questions but whenever a Toyota exec explain "we have to downsize because of emissions" somebody has to be wondering "right but why are your competitors still offering those bigger less efficient powertrains?"

In some cases they're bigger but they're actually MORE efficient......

 

[Ali Manai]

I don't understand why they are the only manufacturer that absolutely need to kill the V8 to satisfy CAFE and emissions. All their competitors seemed just fine with V8s (and selling them at scale). It always sounded like a bad excuse.

I understand the car media don't like asking hard questions but whenever a Toyota exec explain "we have to downsize because of emissions" somebody has to be wondering "right but why are your competitors still offering those bigger less efficient powertrains?"

I think toyota wanted to get a lead on the emissions with more hybrids but we never saw the v35 hybrid in ls500 and nor they did bring a hybrid v6 to camry, es, is, etc. but most probably those v8 engines were bulky and adding a hybrid powertrain to that would habe been quite heavy would have made sense in the ls like it's predecessor but toyota probably thought it wouldn't be have volume enough to bother with it, i mean just imagine an ls with the 5.0 v8 phev but it would have been heavy that's where solid state probably could help but now the uncertainty over ice vehicles and lexus going all electric there is no hope.
Now the only car with the v8 will be the century and with the addition of century suv that seems like an endangered species alas the only cars capable of running a v8 would be bof vehicles and the new crown sedan which we know will not get the v8 as the last v8 crown was sold in 2012.

 

[NomadDan]

How much lighter is a V35 compared to a 2UR? The V35 has a lot of extra components, like the turbos, waste gates, intercooler radiator(s), intercooler(s), coolant pump(s), additional intake and exhaust tubing, coolant lines, turbo oil lines, etc. I may be wrong, but all things considered, I have a hard time figuring out if a V35 is any lighter than a 2UR.