Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[internalaudit]

it is not just 1, but you get the point. Problem why nobody did it before was because they buy these parts from all these different suppliers that dont work with each other, so it is not all integrated together. Now they are all scrambling to do it but having very hard time at it.

Tesla started from 0 so they built up fully integrated system, and this is why they are able to update whole car via software and add new features all the time, but also lower the cost.

Pretty much everything Tesla does is kaizen based, probably a lot like what TMC used to do in 80's, and what they are coming back to these days.

If someone is building it for Tesla and we know it's not being built in-house, why can't it sell the same concept to other automakers?

It's just going to be a matter of time.

The chip shortage was for those older gen chips. Newer ones (the ones Tesla uses) will level the playing field soon enough.

I mean, to me as the consumer, I don't see any advantage with Tesla's lower manufacturing cost, if it doesn't feed down to the MSRP of its vehicles anyway.

I care more about the reliability of the software and build quality of the vehicle. As long as the sum of the parts work and are more reliable than Tesla's, I don't really care how many parts have to work together.

 

[Sulu]

If someone is building it for Tesla and we know it's not being built in-house, why can't it sell the same concept to other automakers?

It's just going to be a matter of time.

The chip shortage was for those older gen chips. Newer ones (the ones Tesla uses) will level the playing field soon enough.

I mean, to me as the consumer, I don't see any advantage with Tesla's lower manufacturing cost, if it doesn't feed down to the MSRP of its vehicles anyway.

I care more about the reliability of the software and build quality of the vehicle. As long as the sum of the parts work and are more reliable than Tesla's, I don't really care how many parts have to work together.

Tesla fans will argue forever about the superiority of Tesla's electronics system, with its centralized CPUs.

But you are correct that normal car buyers will care little about whether their cars have 2, 3 or 300 ECUs, because they won't understand the benefits of fewer or more ECUs; they will just care that their cars start reliably every morning and continue to drive for 10 years or more with no significant problems.

I believe that as long as Toyota can supply enough EVs to meet demand, are able to perform reliably, continually make incremental improvements (as it recently did with the UX 300e), and continues to do so at competitive prices, their buyers will care little whether it has an e-TNGA, e-TNGA2 or e-TNGA300 platform underneath it. I would hope that as Toyota expedites the development of a new, e-TNGA Gen2 platform, that it continues to introduce product on the existing -- if somewhat flawed and expensive -- e-TNGA platform.

 

[ssun30]

I think it has more to do with software coding the the number of CPUs when redundancy may be paramount. Sure 1 vs 30 is cheaper but maybe 5 vs 30 is better? I have no clue though

As Electric Car Makers Ante Up Billions, Software Is Ace in the Hole

As Electric Car Makers Ante Up Billions, Software Is Ace in the Hole

Coders set to cash in

spectrum.ieee.org

Toyota had already identified the #of chips used in cars as a risk in 2019, which is why it influenced Renesas to increasingly replace separate chips with SoCs. It's just limited to infotainment at this point, but will expand further in the future. They will not do 1CPU because that's not what Tesla does either, but you get the point. More chips don't make the car more reliable it's actually the opposite. Just look at mid-2000s German luxury cars that use one dedicated computer for every feature and you'd be lucky to find one that's fully functional.

They also forced the Japanese government to add Denso into the TSMC JV plant (it was a very late stage decision) so they have more control over it's semiconductor supply. In fact, they planned to take over RENESAS but Nissan/NIDEC alliance countered that by threatening to pull out of cross-licensing deals between RENESAS and NIDEC.

 

[spwolf]

Tesla fans will argue forever about the superiority of Tesla's electronics system, with its centralized CPUs.

But you are correct that normal car buyers will care little about whether their cars have 2, 3 or 300 ECUs, because they won't understand the benefits of fewer or more ECUs; they will just care that their cars start reliably every morning and continue to drive for 10 years or more with no significant problems.

I believe that as long as Toyota can supply enough EVs to meet demand, are able to perform reliably, continually make incremental improvements (as it recently did with the UX 300e), and continues to do so at competitive prices, their buyers will care little whether it has an e-TNGA, e-TNGA2 or e-TNGA300 platform underneath it. I would hope that as Toyota expedites the development of a new, e-TNGA Gen2 platform, that it continues to introduce product on the existing -- if somewhat flawed and expensive -- e-TNGA platform.

but they cant do it at competitive price, this is what the whole series of articles from Reuters about TMC rethinking whole strategy and pausing development on 30 cars is about.

It is not about features, but inability to make their product price competitive. Meaning the more they sell, more they lose, that is what they are trying to prevent.

 

[internalaudit]

Toyota had already identified the #of chips used in cars as a risk in 2019, which is why it influenced Renesas to increasingly replace separate chips with SoCs. It's just limited to infotainment at this point, but will expand further in the future. They will not do 1CPU because that's not what Tesla does either, but you get the point. More chips don't make the car more reliable it's actually the opposite. Just look at mid-2000s German luxury cars that use one dedicated computer for every feature and you'd be lucky to find one that's fully functional.

They also forced the Japanese government to add Denso into the TSMC JV plant (it was a very late stage decision) so they have more control over it's semiconductor supply. In fact, they planned to take over RENESAS but Nissan/NIDEC alliance countered that by threatening to pull out of cross-licensing deals between RENESAS and NIDEC.

Newer features render vehicles with more potential issues because the newer chips haven't been tested or haven't been out in the market (playing nice with other chips) as extensively.

I have yet to buy an OBD2 reader because my 11 Accord and 12 CT200h never flashed anything on the instrument cluster.

 

[Gor134]

次期レクサス IS、ワゴンとSUV投入を検討中！？ 新型クラウンと同じファミリー化戦略を実施か

トヨタが既存のものとは異なる、新しいFRプラットフォームを開発しているようだ。大型モデル用の既存のFRプラットフォーム採用車が増えない中、新規でプラットフォームを開発する理由は、スポーツカーに転用できる、軽量版が欲しくなったからだ。

www.carsensor.net

Another MagX article out of Japan in regards to the new rumoured RWD platform in development, published in September that we somehow missed I guess.

It seems that Toyota is developing a new FR platform that is different from the existing one. While the number of vehicles using the existing FR platform for large models has not increased, the reason for developing a new platform is because I wanted a lightweight version that can be diverted to a sports car.

That said, a certain number of plans are needed to start a platform. It will be difficult to recoup development costs with just a sports car.

In anticipation of electrification, Lexus will convert its product lineup to 100% BEV in major markets in 2030. If you count backwards, the car that uses the new FR platform will be the last engine-equipped generation, and it is possible that the versatility that can be converted to a BEV in the middle of the model life is also included in the plan.

Although these do seem a bit far-fetched.. it does seem like everything is aligning. And hopefully a possibility that the IS successor family showcased in the EV reveal has ICE variants as well.

EDIT: just realized, during Carmaker1's tenure in this forum, it was hinted long before the '21 IS reveal, that the facelift was a placeholder(is that the right word?) for the IS until the delayed next-gen model debuted in 2024.. is this finally happening?

 

[Levi]

According to this picture, next Century would be a SUV, alla Rolls Royce Cullinan. But nothing sure about what it could be base on.

 

[Gor134]

According to this picture, next Century would be a SUV, alla Rolls Royce Cullinan. But nothing sure about what it could be base on.

With the Crown being expanded to a upcoming BEV Wagon, SUV, and a current Coupe-SUV thing.. I can 100% see this happening, an expansion of the Century name.

 

[Levi]

With the Crown being expanded to a upcoming BEV Wagon, SUV, and a current Coupe-SUV thing.. I can 100% see this happening, an expansion of the Century name.

But going from V12 to 600h to 500h will be a huge step back (like LS). So it might be 550h+ from TX if it happens to be FWD based.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

次期レクサス IS、ワゴンとSUV投入を検討中！？ 新型クラウンと同じファミリー化戦略を実施か

トヨタが既存のものとは異なる、新しいFRプラットフォームを開発しているようだ。大型モデル用の既存のFRプラットフォーム採用車が増えない中、新規でプラットフォームを開発する理由は、スポーツカーに転用できる、軽量版が欲しくなったからだ。

www.carsensor.net

Another MagX article out of Japan in regards to the new rumoured RWD platform in development, published in September that we somehow missed I guess.



Although these do seem a bit far-fetched.. it does seem like everything is aligning. And hopefully a possibility that the IS successor family showcased in the EV reveal has ICE variants as well.

EDIT: just realized, during Carmaker1's tenure in this forum, it was hinted long before the '21 IS reveal, that the facelift was a placeholder(is that the right word?) for the IS until the delayed next-gen model debuted in 2024.. is this finally happening?

Yup.

I told y'all TNGA-A is a thing.

What makes me super excited is that we're finally going to get a RWD-based unibody SUV.

 

[sl0519]

Yup.

I told y'all TNGA-A is a thing.

What makes me super excited is that we're finally going to get a RWD-based unibody SUV.

Tell us more??

 

[NomadDan]

Here’s a random thought: If the Century is going to be a SUV, could the TX be based on the same platform? Maybe the TX could even be a rebadged Century. It seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[Levi]

I3 turbo+hybrid "86" could also be an MR2. No more Lotus, no more 718 (it is going electric), only Alpine left and that too is going electric, so it makes even more sense to revive the MR2. The layout is already transverse. And remember the hybrid/electric with manual patent? Toyota could be seriously considering manual for their sportscar hybrid. After all it is first and foremost a real life "toycar". Trackracing is mostly for GT/Forza fans/internet.

Here’s a random thought: If the Century is going to be a SUV, could the TX be based on the same platform? Maybe the TX could even be a rebadged Century. It seems like a no-brainer to me.

Or the other way round, Century will be a rebadged TX 550h+.

 

[CRSKTN]

I don't think people quite understand the read through of the new Crown "lifted sedan" model type.

I've been saying near SUV sized Sedans are coming as a natural differentiation.

Also you can't justifiably detach a new century from the development of a new LS.

Also that FR platform that'll get used in everything is maybe something we have started to see signs of.

I have a feeling a new LS will be bigger, probably also helps with fitting in sensors without impacting the shape.

 

[Gecko]

According to this picture, next Century would be a SUV, alla Rolls Royce Cullinan. But nothing sure about what it could be base on.

GA-K 😂

Grand Highlander/TX.

Wish I was joking but I feel it’s more likely than not.

 

[Gor134]

GA-K 😂

Grand Highlander.

Wish I was joking but I feel it’s more likely than not.

Kinda like the Chinese "Crown Kluger"

 

[Gecko]

Kinda like the Chinese "Crown Kluger"

Precisely.

 

[NomadDan]

Or maybe the Century and TX share the TNGA-A platform and end up being rear drive SUVs. That’s what I was getting at in my previous post but failed so miserably at communicating. That would open the door to both the TX and Century having the V35 as an option, in addition to the T24 Hybrid. Maybe even the V35 Hybrid, at least in the Century.

 

[ssun30]

New FR platform IS.
IS-derived wagon and CUV.
GA-K based Century.

My prediction is 0/3 of those happening, but it depends on whether the 'restructured' EV plan means considerably cutting back on their promised 35% BEV share.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Tell us more??

Well I only quoted the article about the RWD-based SUV, but the TNGA-A platform is certainly more than just a rumor.