Official 7th Generation ES Thread: Full Reveal on 4/25 in Beijing

[Madi]

Yes the ES will become the Global Mid-size sedan for Lexus, but that does not mean the GS will discontinued !

Now the GS is the global mid-size sedan, so its available in nearly all markets that Lexus exists on, there are countries that does not have the ES, such as Japan and Europe in those countries there is GS only, with the next generation ES it will replace the GS and become the global mid size sedan, which mean the countries that have the GS only like Japan and Europe will get the ES only in the future.

The countries that have both GS and ES, both will be continued and we will see next generation GS as well as next generation ES.

For the IS it must grow to compete, at least to the size of its competitors - not the size of the GS -

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

This is a great insight.

The way I am looking at it:

The IS and ES compete in the same price segment but they are totally different products. IS is a sporty sedan while the ES is a comfy sedan. I have said this for years but during the sales breakdown the IS and ES should be almost counted as the same when comparing to other sedans like the BMW 3 and 4 series (think of the IS as the coupe version with 4 doors of the ES).

If you are to remove the GS then there would not be any product filling that gap between the IS/ES and the LS. You basically jump from 38k to 75k so there needs to be an option in the 50-60K space.

My solution (while being more costly) is to either repurpose the GS as literally the smaller LS in that price range or make two cars, one focused for comfort and the other one for fun to drive.

I also think the IS should definitely increase in size in order to make the back row more comfy or restructure the interior so there's a sense of roominess.

This guy gets it.

Yes the ES will become the Global Mid-size sedan for Lexus, but that does not mean the GS will discontinued !

Now the GS is the global mid-size sedan, so its available in nearly all markets that Lexus exists on, there are countries that does not have the ES, such as Japan and Europe in those countries there is GS only, with the next generation ES it will replace the GS and become the global mid size sedan, which mean the countries that have the GS only like Japan and Europe will get the ES only in the future.

The countries that have both GS and ES, both will be continued and we will see next generation GS as well as next generation ES.

For the IS it must grow to compete, at least to the size of its competitors - not the size of the GS -

YES! There you go.


For those two above. Gold star. This is how Lexus should move. It makes no financial sense any other way.

But then why we haven't seen any prototype / test model on the road yet?

Patience is a virtue.

 

[Rob Grieveson]

Wow! Hope this is very close to the truth!
This looks like a very desirable car - and fully capable of replacing the GS, the pricing is what interests me this will be closer to the IS than the GS in this regard.
In fact with the low spec models it may fall below the IS. Confusion reigns I feel.

 

[spwolf]

I think we might see both GS and IS as baby sportbacks, like LS... more focused on sporty while ES picks up lower and upper ends up executive sedan market.

 

[Gecko]

If the ES is going to debut at the Beijing show as rumored, that's just a few weeks away now. I think the reveal of the 7ES will tell us almost everything we need to know about the viability of the GS returning.

I love the idea of a more basic "executive sedan" ES and then an IS, GS and LS serving as the sporty, four door Lexus trio. I can always make a case of the GS, but we'll see...

 

[spwolf]

If the ES is going to debut at the Beijing show as rumored, that's just a few weeks away now. I think the reveal of the 7ES will tell us almost everything we need to know about the viability of the GS returning.

I love the idea of a more basic "executive sedan" ES and then an IS, GS and LS serving as the sporty, four door Lexus trio. I can always make a case of the GS, but we'll see...

Indeed, it would be nice to see... but I think it wont be just basic, it will cover existing ES and also GS, so it will go between $40k and $60k.

 

[OlFius]

No no, a "basic" doesn't exist with Lexus, and certainly not with this ES.
It will be completely top-notch, from the base, this will be a world-leading car for Lexus.
But I'm also curious what will happen to the GS, on this they can finally communicate clearly.

 

[krew]

But I'm also curious what will happen to the GS, on this they can finally communicate clearly.

Well, this is something that will resolve itself shortly. Feels confusing now, but Lexus will have to address the issue eventually. I imagine they're waiting until the ES is revealed, as @Gecko mentioned.

 

[Gecko]

For me it will come down to engine options and the AWD system. If they do something 335+hp and an active AWD system, there is no GS coming back.

If they offer a 270-300hp engine with an AWD on-demand system like Dynamic Torque Vectoring, then I will hold out a 25% hope for GS return.

 

[ssun30]

I say at this point we just need to be patient and wait for the Beijing Motor Show. I will be there for the 7ES launch (if 7ES does launch there).

 

[spwolf]

For me it will come down to engine options and the AWD system. If they do something 335+hp and an active AWD system, there is no GS coming back.

If they offer a 270-300hp engine with an AWD on-demand system like Dynamic Torque Vectoring, then I will hold out a 25% hope for GS return.

you probably mean if there is a turbo V6 or not... since there will be certainly V6, as always and apparently many people think there will be a AWD too.

 

[krew]

I say at this point we just need to be patient and wait for the Beijing Motor Show. I will be there for the 7ES launch (if 7ES does launch there).

Oh yeah? Make sure to post photos!

 

[mikeavelli]

For me it will come down to engine options and the AWD system. If they do something 335+hp and an active AWD system, there is no GS coming back.

If they offer a 270-300hp engine with an AWD on-demand system like Dynamic Torque Vectoring, then I will hold out a 25% hope for GS return.

I've heard no rumors on a new V-6. Not sure if the ES gets some rendition of the LS Motor. My guess is the same 3.5 tuned again as the optional V-6.

 

[spwolf]

I've heard no rumors on a new V-6. Not sure if the ES gets some rendition of the LS Motor. My guess is the same 3.5 tuned again as the optional V-6.

you mean 300hp GR V6 as upgrade or?

 

[ssun30]

The 2GR-FKS is sure to stay (in NA) for at least three or four years considering it's still relatively new. The new 2.5 turbo will take a while to reach the same capacity as the 2GR worldwide.

 

[asoksevil]

If the ES is going to debut at the Beijing show as rumored, that's just a few weeks away now. I think the reveal of the 7ES will tell us almost everything we need to know about the viability of the GS returning.

I love the idea of a more basic "executive sedan" ES and then an IS, GS and LS serving as the sporty, four door Lexus trio. I can always make a case of the GS, but we'll see...

That's barely 2 weeks from now.

Unless this is very similar to when the 6ES was announced where we literally got some leaked photos a few days ahead of the debut, we should have seen some concepts/leaks already?

Also, I really do think that the ES should be a GLOBAL product. There's no reason why this product should not exist in the European market. The gap in price before the 4GS (GS300h) was announced between the IS250 and the GS450h was huge, and people just wanted a car that was large, comfy with great MPG/smaller engine/lower price. This is the reason why most executive sedans (E class, 5 Series, S Class, 7 series, etc) sold in Europe are the ones with the smallest engine.

It would be a great idea to start offering the RX with a smaller engine as well, perhaps a more refined version of the 300h in the NX? The price hike from the NX300h to the RX450h just because of a roomier car is not justifiable and people will most likely go to the German competition that does have that offering.

I really do hope the ES can step up the game because if the ES is supposed to be a some sort of GS replacement at a lower price point, they will have to woo prospective customers with a great product because expectations will be high.

 

[spwolf]

That's barely 2 weeks from now.

Unless this is very similar to when the 6ES was announced where we literally got some leaked photos a few days ahead of the debut, we should have seen some concepts/leaks already?

Also, I really do think that the ES should be a GLOBAL product. There's no reason why this product should not exist in the European market. The gap in price before the 4GS (GS300h) was announced between the IS250 and the GS450h was huge, and people just wanted a car that was large, comfy with great MPG/smaller engine/lower price. This is the reason why most executive sedans (E class, 5 Series, S Class, 7 series, etc) sold in Europe are the ones with the smallest engine.

It would be a great idea to start offering the RX with a smaller engine as well, perhaps a more refined version of the 300h in the NX? The price hike from the NX300h to the RX450h just because of a roomier car is not justifiable and people will most likely go to the German competition that does have that offering.

I really do hope the ES can step up the game because if the ES is supposed to be a some sort of GS replacement at a lower price point, they will have to woo prospective customers with a great product because expectations will be high.

there are indeed photos of camouflaged test vehicles as well as concept shots of how it should look like, like baby LS basically.

I agree on 300h vs 450h, huge difference in pricing.

We know that 2020 Highlander coming next year will have 300h version. I assume that RX will have it too, especially in Europe.

 

[Gecko]

The 2GR-FKS is sure to stay (in NA) for at least three or four years considering it's still relatively new. The new 2.5 turbo will take a while to reach the same capacity as the 2GR worldwide.

If the ES debuts with the 2GR-FKS, I will be shocked. That engine is great for Highlander, Tacoma, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, but if they can't pull out a new engine for LEXUS' new corporate global midsize sedan, I will be surprised. In a bad way.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

If the ES debuts with the 2GR-FKS, I will be shocked. That engine is great for Highlander, Tacoma, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, but if they can't pull out a new engine for LEXUS' new corporate global midsize sedan, I will be surprised. In a bad way.

As much as I would love to see it to become like that, it will not happen. The current platform cannot support such demands. Which is why I keep saying they need to change platforms ASAP.

 

[spwolf]

If the ES debuts with the 2GR-FKS, I will be shocked. That engine is great for Highlander, Tacoma, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, but if they can't pull out a new engine for LEXUS' new corporate global midsize sedan, I will be surprised. In a bad way.

it will certainly debut with latest GR version... lets be realistic, it is a great base engine for ES.