internalaudit

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Lexus is probably just buying time until its solid state battery is commercially viable.

Even Honda (article on insideevs today) announced FCEV will be put in the back burner and BEV and HEV will become priorities today.
 

CRSKTN

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Lexus is probably just buying time until its solid state battery is commercially viable.

Even Honda (article on insideevs today) announced FCEV will be put in the back burner and BEV and HEV will become priorities today.
Is there a range of time frame for that, understanding it would just be an estimate and probably wrong? 5 years? 10?

As a layman, i'm naturally worried this is a bad strategy. "Oh we are just waiting on ______ technology" is a good way to stay waiting forever.

I will watch those prior explanatory videos again on SSBs, curious to hear thoughts from people here on what they've heard/read.
 

corradoMR2

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Exciting to see the ELECTRIC badge on what definitely looks like the UX! If the CH R electric is any indication on range, the rumor-mill has it at least at 200 miles/320km, not great but not bad! :)

 

internalaudit

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Is there a range of time frame for that, understanding it would just be an estimate and probably wrong? 5 years? 10?

As a layman, i'm naturally worried this is a bad strategy. "Oh we are just waiting on ______ technology" is a good way to stay waiting forever.

I will watch those prior explanatory videos again on SSBs, curious to hear thoughts from people here on what they've heard/read.
Tesla / Goodenough / Braga seem to have been working on SSB since 2017. Watch those videos I shared.
Braga expects commercialization in 2022

Makes sense. How can Tesla cram a 200 kWh battery in a Roadster if the battery technology won't be a game changer?

VAG expects SSB by 2025.
 

CT200h

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Well as someone who’s been driving electric for 8 years now it seems like Lexus could have had EV’s in the showrooms by now. Sure SSB will be nice but I expect an excruciating wait before it is in a regular car and in the showroom. Plus I expect SSB will be premium priced. I’ve been happy with all my EV batteries even thought the Leaf was marginal.
 

internalaudit

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If it's any ordinary BEV with no torque vectoring, I might as well stick to my ICEVs. Propulsion technology and instant torque aren't enough to sway my intelligence and pocketbook.

I can pick up used BEVs down the road cheap as they're all consumer goods like my one fully depreciated and the other 70% depreciated ICEV.

I am all for saving the environment but I do that by recycling properly , planning my trips well and not idling my engine when it's not freezing cold in the car.

With advancement in engineering, computing power and manufacturing, commercialization of better batteries and/or torque vectoring will likely come by 2025 for >$70k up BEVs

Without torque vectoring, I feel higher end BEVs are incomplete and not worth purchasing new.

If my optimism is unfounded, then buying used BEVs, HEVs or PHEVs will be the direction I am taking. My household fuel expenditure is low enough compared to new car depreciation I can bide my sweet time.

All I know is Lexus can make great cars but I expect more when purchasing higher-end BEVs.
 

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As a 30 year Lexus employee and an EV enthusiast I’ve been wAiting for a Lexus EV for 10 plus years. Very hopeful at first when I saw the press release and this story , but now....... looks like China and Europe only and if it’s a UX very limited battery capacity , I would guess 33 to 40 kWh Max and Front wheel drive.🙄
I hope I am wrong. Here is the thing isn’t there already a Toyota CHR electric sold in China ? And if Lexus goes through all the trouble to build an electric UX why not offer it in the USA.
Because they have a capacity problem in China. Their sales growth here is too fast so they need a lot of EVs to meet the 'dual-credit' requirements. They couldn't produce quickly enough for ChDM so they need every UX EV possible to avoid a penalty.

By comparison they don't have any regulatory pressure in the US so it's a low priority.
 

ssun30

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As a layman, i'm naturally worried this is a bad strategy. "Oh we are just waiting on ______ technology" is a good way to stay waiting forever.
SSB will provide cost parity with ICEVs with comparable range, that's why it's worth the wait.

Today's state-of-the-art NMC811 cells costs $100/kWh at the cell level (in the best case scenario) but to reach full cost parity that number needs to be at the pack level.

Hybrids only reached cost parity with ICEVs recently thanks to the TNGA platform. It will still take BEVs at least 5 years to achieve the same.
 
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Will1991

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On LA Auto Shwo Website there is this:


It's only me or this seems like a SUV shaped car? Maybe LF-1????

EDIT: Nervermind... It shows this picture as a debut for every manafacturer...
 
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Joaquin Ruhi

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On LA Auto Shwo Website there is this:


It's only me or this seems like a SUV shaped car? Maybe LF-1????
That's just a generic picture they use for all the brands that have yet to reveal what they'll be unveiling. For example, if you click on Hyundai on this page, you'll see 5 copies of the same picture, symbolizing the 5 things they'll unveil:
https://laautoshow.com/manufacturers-automakers/
 

internalaudit

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Besides cost and being less flammable (no liquid electrolyte), what other advantages do solid state batteries hold compared to current state of the art li-on batteries?

Will the energy density be much improved? Will solid state batteries likely come in pouch format since there's no liquid electrolyte to contain?

I understand (little to be honest) with Tesla's chemistry, it's a little more aggressive to provide more oomph but at the risk of going up in flames if the cooling system goes bonkers.
 
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Joaquin Ruhi

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Besides cost and being less flammable (no liquid electrolyte), what other advantages do solid state batteries hold compared to current state of the art li-on batteries?

Will the energy density be much improved? Will solid state batteries likely come in pouch format since there's no liquid electrolyte to contain?

I understand (little to be honest) with Tesla's chemistry, it's a little more aggressive to provide more oomph but at the risk of going up in flames if the cooling system goes bonkers.
Cost is not an advantage at this point, though it could be longer-term.

Yes, energy density will be much improved, and there's one other advantage to solid state batteries you haven't mentioned: significantly faster charging times.
 

internalaudit

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Cost is not an advantage at this point, though it could be longer-term.

Yes, energy density will be much improved, and there's one other advantage to solid state batteries you haven't mentioned: significantly faster charging times.
Probably more charge cycles (no dendritic formations) which mean most of our lifetimes. I am past my prime if I ever had one lol.
 

CT200h

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Seems like we could always wait for the next big breakthrough but to me having driven 100,000 EV miles over 8 year on regular lithium batteries or whatever is currently used in Nissan , BMW and tesla , Chrysler etc the current batteries are fine , do yourself a favor rent ,borrow or test drive an EV. Make sure you have a good basis for your opinions. Waiting around 10 years for solid state batteries ? Na I don’t think so completely unncesasary
 

internalaudit

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I bet depreciation plus gasoline spend on my $0 and $8k vehicles trump your fuel savings + new / newish car depreciation.

If I will go for a BEV, it better handle better than many sporty ICEVs. Fuel savings is not enough a reason for me to switch. We own Honda's and a Toyota lol so reliability of motor plus battery (degradation) doesn't sway me because my wife drives a lot to work and winter cuts distance by at least 40%.

Electric torque vectoring and/or next gen battery below $80k CAD or I will be willing to compromise with other AWD BEVs but in the used market.

We are humans and most understand what instant torque and single speed transmission are, this is coming from someone with a manual transmission ICEV.

We all have varying needs and if we didn't require longer range BEVs, we could have bought one already but current BEVs are full of compromises. The ones (Taycan) with few cost an arm and leg and doesn't even have electric torque vectoring. That I am willing to pick up used :)
 
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CT200h

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Totally agree it’s not worth it to go EV for fuel savings. That’s a nice bonus but can be offset by depreciation if you sell or trade . To me it’s about performance , smoothness , torque , technology, and skipping the gas station experience.
As some one who drove a gen 1 Leaf on a highway speed 62 mile round trip commute during some tough winters I def have an understanding of the impact on range cold weather and a cold battery has🙄
As far as manual trans cars I have had several , Mazda 323gtx , Subaru WRX, ACURA legend V6 coupe, and a Toyota Tacoma TRD 4wd , I love manual trans cars and this may seem strange but to me a good EV is like a manual trans , that direct connection you have with the power to the wheels feels great in an ev and the regen to me is like gear backlash and engine braking ...... so call me crazy but my love for manual trans cars is one reason more I like EV’s.
 

internalaudit

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I am only stating I know what instant torque means because I have to always be in the right gear to have enough torque. I am okay with not rowing my own gears as I am not a piston head.

But those advantages you mentioned are not enough for me to buy a BEV. Too many compromises with current BEVs. Tesla reliability suspect. Audi etron too expensive with short range and both have no electric torque vectoring.

No torque vectoring means old technology. Acura and Lexus will fill the niche to capture market share. Sports Hybrid already comes with three electric motors.
 
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