shizhi

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Any translations of interesting parts/takeaways?
It said that this car was developed based on e-TNGA (of course I don't think so)
Compared with the fuel version, the torsional rigidity of the body is increased by 20%, the center of gravity is reduced by 34%, and the ground clearance remains the same.
Cold air ducts are arranged on both sides of the battery pack, which has a certain energy absorption effect in the collision.
The battery cells are cooled by refrigerant.
In order to ensure the charging efficiency at low temperature, the battery pack is equipped with a heating system.
In order to extend battery life, the battery energy during charging is not from 0 to full, but in the middle range.(Of course, on the screen you'll see from 0 to full,but not the reality)
Translated by Google Translate, there may be some mistakes.
 

ssun30

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>> The chassis is E-TNGA. The bottom of the battery pack is reinforced by an extra frame attached to the existing chassis.
>> The battery pack is both air-cooled AND liquid-cooled. The air-cooling ducts also serve as crash structures.
>> Battery packs have heaters that activate at -12C/10F.
>> The batteries only have a portion of the SoC accessible to the user. To prevent capacity degradation, the top several percent of SoC is not usable.
>> Toyota and Subaru will be sharing the E-TNGA platform, but not all technologies will be shared.
>> There will be electric Kei-cars.
>> Toyota takes resale and battery recycle into account as part of its BEV strategy.

TL;DR: the battery pack is heavily engineered for reliability and safety, thus the heavy weight and low energy density.

My take on this 'E-TNGA' is that this will be a middle-ground between traditional TNGA platform and a clean-sheet E-TNGA design (skateboard style). The article mentioned that the conversion from ICEV to BEV usually requires a reduction of interior height or ride height. But this has not happened to the C-HR EV since TNGA-C is already provisioned to accomodate battery packs under the floor.
 

CT200h

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The one chart shows the battery remaining at the proper temp during a road trip with repeated fast charge stops! Shame that limited to 50kw charge rate as that really isnt fast as far as many are concerned. Possibly related to being extra conservative or also the fact that most chademo dont go above 50kw anyway. still with a lot of the SOC reserved as a buffer that can be good for overall fast charge rates by avoiding the taper. E-tron does well with with this. Man I wish they would bring this to the USA, I'd lease one in a second flat.
 

Will1991

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Does anyone knows what's said on the 4rd picture? Specially on the left, since on the right it does looks like how long it takes to heat up the battery pack...

@CT200h, does it say it's not able to keep fast charging? It heats up even at 50kW?
 

flexus

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Does anyone knows what's said on the 4rd picture? Specially on the left, since on the right it does looks like how long it takes to heat up the battery pack...

@CT200h, does it say it's not able to keep fast charging? It heats up even at 50kW?
80kw's export standard. But definetly in Chinese it means completely different thing
 

CT200h

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Does anyone knows what's said on the 4rd picture? Specially on the left, since on the right it does looks like how long it takes to heat up the battery pack...

@CT200h, does it say it's not able to keep fast charging? It heats up even at 50kW?
quite the opposite ! It shows repeated fast charging does not heat up the battery hence the smiling battery 😃
 

shizhi

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Does anyone knows what's said on the 4rd picture? Specially on the left, since on the right it does looks like how long it takes to heat up the battery pack...

@CT200h, does it say it's not able to keep fast charging? It heats up even at 50kW?
The third picture is about the benefits of cooling with refrigerant.
In the fourth picture, the table on the left says that in most cases, the output capacity of 80kw can meet the needs of urban travel.
In the table on the right, when the soc is 20%, the minimum temperature that can guarantee 80kw output is -12C.So when the temperature is lower than -12C, the heater will start, and above -6C, it will stop.It takes one night to heat up from -30C to -12C (about 8 hours)
 
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The third picture is about the benefits of cooling with refrigerant.
In the fourth picture, the table on the left says that in most cases, the output capacity of 80kw can meet the needs of urban travel.
In the table on the right, when the soc is 20%, the minimum temperature that can guarantee 80kw output is -12C.So when the temperature is lower than -12C, the heater will start, and above -6C, it will stop.It takes one night to heat up from -30C to -12C (about 8 hours)
Thank you for translating everything @shizhi. It's really helpful around here. 😊 Just wanted to say we really appreciate it!
 

CT200h

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seems right , ux and chr are all they have for ev near term
its going to be a longer wait , heck ive been waiting 10 years. for usa maybe 5 more years wait or a Lexus EV
 

spwolf

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Well... It seems Toyota only wants to sell 10.000 BEV's in 2020... Does this mean we're only getting a UX300e for Europe and UX300e/CHR/IZOA (BEV's) for China?

Source: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Toyota-aims-to-sell-500-000-EVs-in-2025-chasing-VW-s-3m

So, China requires how many BEV's for 2020? Maybe 2/3.000 BEV's for Europe at best?
Toyota Europe does not need EV to satisfy current requirements, so do not expect big numbers... probably just for countries that have big incentives for EVs.

It also is very achievable to go from 10k in 2020 to 500k in 2025 while VW's goal of 0 to 3m in 5 years just seems silly.
 

spwolf

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well, I take it back - 500k means almost double of what largest EV manufacturer did in 2019?
 

shizhi

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Well... It seems Toyota only wants to sell 10.000 BEV's in 2020... Does this mean we're only getting a UX300e for Europe and UX300e/CHR/IZOA (BEV's) for China?

Source: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Toyota-aims-to-sell-500-000-EVs-in-2025-chasing-VW-s-3m

So, China requires how many BEV's for 2020? Maybe 2/3.000 BEV's for Europe at best?
Izoa-bev plans to produce 10,000 vehicles per year, and Chinese consumers do not have as many bev demand, especially in cities without restrictions. Although Tesla's new factory in China makes some believe that China has strong demand, this demand is basically the result of policy.
Due to the overall negative growth of the Chinese market, new energy vehicles cannot be avoided, and sales have also been in negative growth in recent months.
 

spwolf

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Izoa-bev plans to produce 10,000 vehicles per year, and Chinese consumers do not have as many bev demand, especially in cities without restrictions. Although Tesla's new factory in China makes some believe that China has strong demand, this demand is basically the result of policy.
Due to the overall negative growth of the Chinese market, new energy vehicles cannot be avoided, and sales have also been in negative growth in recent months.
it is not very different worldwide either... only Tesla changes this - and people buy Tesla because it is cool. People buy most other EVs because of the tax policy or big discounts or both together.

Outside the Tesla, maybe Porsche is only selling to expectations but everything else in EV world is selling way less than anticipated. Same goes for plugins, with maybe only 2-3 models selling ok.

There is definitely no rush to get EVs and I think I even read that in 2020, analyst predict lower sales of EVs.
 

ssun30

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The crash of EV market in China is ~50% this year and is just getting worse. And the Shanghai TM3 will make life for other EVs even harder. Manufacturers are diversifying into FCV this year in anticipation of a move to Hydrogen Economy in the near future.
 

Will1991

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In my opinion, Toyota is getting a bit late for BEV's... Even before emissions regulations and BEV quotas... Toyota already lost a lot of costumers to other brands.... I know a lot of Prius owners that left Toyota due to the lack of options... Yes, it's a small market (worldwide BEV's sales) but they created the Prius and started all of this.

I started to look for a car last year ago and still hasn't bought anything due to my desire to get a BEV or a PHEV (that doesn't look like the Prius Prime...).

@ssun30 , in your educated guess, do you see a viable future in BEV's? Or PHEV's like Prius/RAV4 Prime?
 

CT200h

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The crash of EV market in China is ~50% this year and is just getting worse. And the Shanghai TM3 will make life for other EVs even harder. Manufacturers are diversifying into FCV this year in anticipation of a move to Hydrogen Economy in the near future.
Hydrogen economy ? is that like when you Lease a Fuel cell vehicle and they give you a $15,000 fuel card so you can pay for Hydrogen at $15 a kilo at the few working stations in Cali? Those economics? i just dont see a hydrogen economy anytimne soon
personally I dont want 10,000 psi tanks of hydrogen in my cars or the ones driving around me. I will stay with BEV's .
also just take a look at the resale value of a used FCEV
 
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ssun30

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Hydrogen economy ? is that like when you Lease a Fuel cell vehicle and they give you a $15,000 fuel card so you can pay for Hydrogen at $15 a kilo at the few working stations in Cali? Those economics? i just dont see a hydrogen economy anytimne soon
personally I dont want 10,000 psi tanks of hydrogen in my cars or the ones driving around me. I will stay with BEV's .
also just take a look at the resale value of a used FCEV
Go look up hydrogen economy on a search engine and don't judge another country's energy policy with a US-centric vision.

Hydrogen economy isn't coming to any country full-scale anytime soon. What I'm saying is all options need to be on the table.

@ssun30 , in your educated guess, do you see a viable future in BEV's? Or PHEV's like Prius/RAV4 Prime?
It depends on how far away in the future you are talking about. But next ten years? The dominating form of electrification will be HEV and PHEV.
 
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