Lexus Has Cancelled the GS Sedan

[Carmaker1]

Sorry. Should have said IMO. But what high-end Toyota does not have a Lexus version in the US? It makes total sense for them to do it.

To be honest I think that should have been Lexus in the first place. It's quite silly that the Mirai needs to even exist instead of a straight Lexus version.

That rumor about them wanting their family name literally on everything that's "special" under $100k comes to mind. Toyota Century should've become a Lexus long time ago. I guess we'll see what happens in the future.

 

[LexsCTJill]

To be honest I think that should have been Lexus in the first place. It's quite silly that the Mirai needs to even exist instead of a straight Lexus version.

I think the Toyota brand still needs to carry FCEV. Toyota is more well known worldwide, so Lexus probably would not get as much exposure.

 

[Carmaker1]

I think the Toyota brand still needs to carry FCEV. Toyota is more well known worldwide, so Lexus probably would not get as much exposure.

True, but I don't think we ever discussed on Club Lexus, how there is a dire need for them to broaden their global expansion and sooner than later.

There are automotive markets in the world, where Lexus have no presence (outside of grey imports coming from South Africa and Middle East/USA) and that is how their competitors get to tally up higher sales numbers.

MB will gladly set up shop in the freaking jungle, to pad their bottom line/numbers and BMW not too far away, maybe in an inhabited small village (exaggerated of course). While Audi sticks to the capital or business hub (ie like Toronto vs Ottawa). MB stretches out their hand to Tarzan, while BMW deals with the tribal chiefs, and Audi at least tries to go after every city slicker worldwide. Where is Lexus? Some of Lexus' sandy gold theme of the 90s would have fit perfectly next to Egyptian pyramids in Giza or blazing through some lush dunes.


Primary point to be taken, European brands still have a global presence regardless of if only kleptocrats and oligarchs buy the product. Lexus is unusually apprehensive for the most peculiar reasons, to expand.

Mexico barely will get Lexus next year, a Audi, BMW, and MB heavy country, where I even saw Ciudad de Chihuahua MX plates on Jag XJRs in 2000 in Texas as a pre-teen.

Shocking that there are even official Rolls-Royce or Bentley dealerships in certain countries, where Lexus is nowhere to be found. Even Jaguar and Porsche have a presence everywhere (see below), established well after Lexus was created.

Expanding could have helped Lexus, where they didn't succeed in Europe. I guess they seem to know what they're doing better than everyone else.


One of the largest markets for decked out Land Cruisers and love for Toyota crossovers, has a glut of grey market Lexus SUVs, yet no Lexus International approved official dealers. My maternal aunt (lawyer) can't service her 2016 GX 460 for an airbag recall, without paying local Toyota distributor a few thousand USD to resolve it.

While her husband (ex-lawyer, oil businessman, property developer) had no issue rebuilding his L405 Range Rover at a local LR dealer in Lagos after a serious accident. Drove just fine. In SS Africa of all places!!!

Rolls Royce Dealer Porsche Dealer Jaguar Dealer

Lexus could outsell MB in some parts of the developing and even underdeveloped world. In some ways I know why they won't and won't get into it, as it's political...

However, I highly doubt that the Toyota badge for a fuel cell vehicle like this has anything to do with recognition or market presence. All the countries that will get that car, already officially sell Lexus products locally. This is not something they are targeting for Guatemala or Ghana, who don't have Lexus dealers.

 

[Will1991]

I think the Toyota brand still needs to carry FCEV. Toyota is more well known worldwide, so Lexus probably would not get as much exposure.

I think a Toyota Fuel Cell should've been made on a Hino...

Much easier to turn it profitable since any BEV truck is ridiculous expensive with a laughable range and even worse payload capacity... Also, is so much easier to build up a business case for H2 infrastructure with trucks and buses, they would spend so much more fuel and there isn't any real battery tech to replace a long haul tractor for the foreseen future. The same can't be said for passenger cars...

Anyway, I digress...

 

[Carmaker1]

Which was misinterpreted from things posted on here originally, i think.

In a misguided effort to bait Lexus USA into confirmation or denial, Motor1 posted that story in February per my request and instruction. A few things were taken out of context from me, but they did a pretty good job in general.

I didn't say anything here about it for a reason.

 

[LexsCTJill]

True, but I don't think we ever discussed on Club Lexus, there is a dire need for them to broaden their global expansion and sooner than later. There are markets in the world Lexus have no presence and that is how their competitors get to tally up higher sales numbers. MB will gladly set up shop in jungle, to pad their bottom line and BMW not too far away, in a small village (exaggerated of course).

Shocking that there are official Rolls-Royce or Bentley dealerships in certain countries, where Lexus is nowhere to be found. Let alone even Jaguar. This could have helped Lexus, where they didn't succeed in Europe. I guess they seem to know what they're doing better than everyone else.

I see your point about RR and Bentley, but no Lexus in some countries. Interesting. I think for Lexus to succeed, Toyota needs to do very well in the minds of consumers, the core brand is Toyota and the stronger Toyota is, the Lexus better does. That is how I kind of see it. Right now, from my perspective, Toyota is going back to more of its pre-1990s roots. Cars like the 86 and new Supra (although joint ventures) are to help strengthen the Toyota brand in the minds of younger consumers. 4Runners and trucks with TRD Pro are hitting the core of Toyota loyalty....how does that affect Lexus, I think by putting a positive vision of Toyota in minds of these buyers, it will help Lexus sell models in the future to these buyers. Toyota seems to have no problem selling hybrids, but the Lexus brand is not as well-received, so if they get Mirai FCEV done right, it will only help Lexus sell an FCEV off the same platform.....

 

[Carmaker1]

I see your point about RR and Bentley, but no Lexus in some countries. Interesting. I think for Lexus to succeed, Toyota needs to do very well in the minds of consumers, the core brand is Toyota and the stronger Toyota is, the Lexus better does. That is how I kind of see it. Right now, from my perspective, Toyota is going back to more of its pre-1990s roots. Cars like the 86 and new Supra (although joint ventures) are to help strengthen the Toyota brand in the minds of younger consumers. 4Runners and trucks with TRD Pro are hitting the core of Toyota loyalty....how does that affect Lexus, I think by putting a positive vision of Toyota in minds of these buyers, it will help Lexus sell models in the future to these buyers. Toyota seems to have no problem selling hybrids, but the Lexus brand is not as well-received, so if they get Mirai FCEV done right, it will only help Lexus sell an FCEV off the same platform.....

Very interesting take in regards to pre 1990s... in terms of the Toyota above all approach.

One thing though, they really must learn how important it is to do top-down approach in the luxury segment.

I have never liked how in the past some models below the LS introduced new innovative features, when that should have never happened.

Mercedes-Benz rarely make that mistake and would deliberately update the flagship at the same time as the lower-end model to correct that. (if 2003 E-Class got a new feature, so did 2003 S-Class a few months later)

That's why I think they should have been ahead of this regarding FCV, but Mirai going rear wheel drive was an eleventh-hour decision against planned LS FCV in 2020 (program also cancelled).

I also believe that the new 2019 ES was too late to pack full of more features, because of it achieving design freeze before the GS program was cancelled in 2016. The 2017 rumor of the GS "not" being canceled (by me via insight), I am beginning to think came from the Toyota Mirai effort and vagueness in relation.

Mirai being a Toyota first, should've never happened. Only Toyota knows why they keep doing that.

 

[Will1991]

@Carmaker1 , Mercedes MBUX infotainment was first introduced for the current A-Class. But yes, they're updating really fast.

 

[LexsCTJill]

Very interesting take in regards to pre 1990s... in terms of the Toyota above all approach.

One thing though, they really must learn how important it is to do top-down approach in the luxury segment.

I have never liked how in the past some models below the LS introduced new innovative features, when that should have never happened.

Mercedes-Benz rarely make that mistake and would deliberately update the flagship at the same time as the lower-end model to correct that. (if 2003 E-Class got a new feature, so did 2003 S-Class a few months later)

That's why I think they should have been ahead of this regarding FCV, but Mirai going rear wheel drive was an eleventh-hour decision against planned LS FCV in 2020 (program also cancelled).

I also believe that the new 2019 ES was too late to pack full of more features, because of it achieving design freeze before the GS program was cancelled in 2016. The 2017 rumor of the GS "not" being canceled (by me via insight), I am beginning to think came from the Toyota Mirai effort and vagueness in relation.

Mirai being a Toyota first, should've never happened. Only Toyota knows why they keep doing that.

I see what you mean by the top-down approach. I remember a lot of features debuting on the past LS models first...the current LS500 has a Toyota exclusive 10-speed, the HUD is exclusive 24in and offers features not available on any Lexus...the first Lexus/Toyota multistage hybrid CVT....( LC also had some of this stuff too, so I use LS and LC together) The 3.5tt is LS exclusive. 4 wheel steering is exclusive. So are a lot of the features of that engine. Other stuff that comes to mind is the safety features of the hood where there are pop up gas struts if you hit a pedestrian. What examples do you have in mind that you were referring to that were debuting on other Lexus models, not from the top?

As for Mirai, perhaps because Toyota was going sponsor the 2020 Japan Olympic games, that might have a reason too. I disagree, I do think it should be a Toyota first and foremost. Then a Lexus. I think fuel efficiecy/emissions inniatives will work better when it starts under the Toyota banner...

 

[internalaudit]

@Carmaker1 , Mercedes MBUX infotainment was first introduced for the current A-Class. But yes, they're updating really fast.

Happening to 2021 A3 too but more aesthetics and not technology features.

BMW good though. I don't think the 2 Series got stop and go ACC until the 2018 model year lol.

 

[Carmaker1]

I see what you mean by the top-down approach. I remember a lot of features debuting on the past LS models first...the current LS500 has a Toyota exclusive 10-speed, the HUD is exclusive 24in and offers features not available on any Lexus...the first Lexus/Toyota multistage hybrid CVT....( LC also had some of this stuff too, so I use LS and LC together) The 3.5tt is LS exclusive. 4 wheel steering is exclusive. So are a lot of the features of that engine. Other stuff that comes to mind is the safety features of the hood where there are pop up gas struts if you hit a pedestrian. What examples do you have in mind that you were referring to that were debuting on other Lexus models, not from the top?

As for Mirai, perhaps because Toyota was going sponsor the 2020 Japan Olympic games, that might have a reason too. I disagree, I do think it should be a Toyota first and foremost. Then a Lexus. I think fuel efficiecy/emissions inniatives will work better when it starts under the Toyota banner...

Remote Touch (2009), Panoramic View Monitor (2014), Digital Side View Mirror (2018), Nightview (2003, 2012), Hybrid Synergy Drive, etc.

 

[Carmaker1]

@Carmaker1 , Mercedes MBUX infotainment was first introduced for the current A-Class. But yes, they're updating really fast.

That happens more often now, but I did say that usually they will work on incorporating the items as soon as possible.

Even Toyota badged models like RAV4, had 360 camera system nearly 3 years before LS. W223 S-Class prototypes were already testing before W177 A-Class launched.

LS didn't offer Remote Touch for 3 and 1/2 to 4 years after RX.

 

[LexsCTJill]

Remote Touch (2009), Panoramic View Monitor (2014), Digital Side View Mirror (2018), Nightview (2003, 2012), Hybrid Synergy Drive, etc.

I think it’s hard to debut everything on a top down approach at this point. I guess it could be argued that the best selling models could get certain items sooner rather than later. I remember the first GR engine showed up in 4Runner and the Avalon before the design came to Lexus. But I do agree the Lexus LS or LC should get things sooner rather than later. They still do debut lots of new stuff. I still remember the Toyota 4.7 added variable valve timing to the GX before the LX in 2005....but sometime 10 or so years ago, Lexus became much more fragmented with the tech and platform debuts or sharing lineups etc etc.

 

[krew]

The Lexus GS sedan will be discontinued in August 2020, and both the USA and Japan are marking the occasion with a special edition model. Lexus Japan announced the cancellation via press release.
The GS launched in 1993, and has went through four generations over the past 27 years. The current model was originally released in 2012 as the first Lexus to wear the now-signature spindle grille design.

Lexus Japan will honour the GS with a limited Eternal Touring edition that borrows elements of the GS F high-performance sedan — Alcantara, carbon fiber trim and orange brake callipers all make an appearance on this final production model...

Continue reading...

 

[spwolf]

Mirai being a Toyota first, should've never happened. Only Toyota knows why they keep doing that.

In the end it is very simple, Toyota is their mass selling brand and FCV needs to be in mass selling brand.
They would literally gain nothing with Mirai FCV being a Lexus product.

Sometimes things are not that complicated.

 

[Carmaker1]

In the end it is very simple, Toyota is their mass selling brand and FCV needs to be in mass selling brand.
They would literally gain nothing with Mirai FCV being a Lexus product.

Sometimes things are not that complicated.

Well, sometimes things should be simple and not based on a stillborn luxury product, if it increases the barrier of entry (price) and is a contrast against its dealership. This is not a Japan only vehicle, sold in "Super Special Toyota Store Osaka".

 

[maiaramdan]

To be honest I think that should have been Lexus in the first place. It's quite silly that the Mirai needs to even exist instead of a straight Lexus version.

That rumor about them wanting their family name literally on everything that's "special" under $100k comes to mind. Toyota Century should've become a Lexus long time ago. I guess we'll see what happens in the future.

My dream comes true

Lexus Century instead of Lexus LS L
Lexus Celsior instead of Lexus LS
Lexus Crown instead of Lexus GS
Lexus Mark-X instead of Lexus IS

Delete the ES
Then turn Toyota itself to Audi model of luxury AWD on FF architecture

 

[LEONWEST]

My dream comes true

Lexus Century instead of Lexus LS L
Lexus Celsior instead of Lexus LS
Lexus Crown instead of Lexus GS
Lexus Mark-X instead of Lexus IS

Delete the ES
Then turn Toyota itself to Audi model of luxury AWD on FF architecture

If that becomes ture，I won't buy a Lexus any more. No need for an "Audi-second".

 

[Gecko]

In the end it is very simple, Toyota is their mass selling brand and FCV needs to be in mass selling brand.
They would literally gain nothing with Mirai FCV being a Lexus product.

Sometimes things are not that complicated.

Wrong. The reason Toyota pivoted and reimagined the Mirai as a RWD premium luxury product is because they realized there is no way to sell a $50k econobox, even if it ran on hydrogen and only emitted water. How do you make an appealing buying case for hydrogen technology? You put it in a package that feels like it justifies the price tag. That is: premium RWD chassis, Lexus interior, Lexus engineering and 11th hour Toyota exterior styling.

Why do you think Tesla is so successful as a luxury brand? They charge absurd amounts of money for cars with interiors equal to a $35k econo cars... but it is the overall package with batteries and being a tech leader that people are willing to pay $$ for, which helps to return a profit.

The best case showcase AND business case for hydrogen FCV would have been a (more premium) Lexus rather than a Toyota. In my .02: ultra dramatic four door, LC-inspired coupe with hydrogen tech, reimagined as the GS or whatever else you want to call it.

In this market, selling a $50k+ sedan from a mainstream brand is really quite stupid. Nobody is buying sedans, let alone $50k experiments from a brand that is known for selling $25k basic transportation.

 

[Sebass]

Continue reading...

😕😥😣😢😤😠😡
I think we all knew this was coming, but none of us were prepared for it. The GS will live on as one of the most loved and cherished models in the lineup to us Enthusiasts. (it will also live on as Mirai, lol). If I am correct, some time ago Carmaker1 made a very long post talking about how the 5GS was very far into its development, (The car even had its design bloody finalized!), and how an F model was even in the pipeline.

I believe he also confirmed that this is pretty much what it would have looked like:


In that post, he also talked about how the 5GS Program was then canceled by Toyota and turned into the 2nd gen Mirai.
If you want to read his post, I am afraid that I can't remember which forum or discussion it was in.
I just can't believe Toyota isn't afraid to show that Lexus is an afterthought in new products and strategy development, or at least that's how it feels. Then again, this is just the reality we have to accept.

Press F 4 times to pay respect to each of the 4 generations of the GS.

FFFF

I am sorry your death was slow and painful old friend. You are in a better place now. 😣