7th Generation (2019+) Lexus ES (250, 260, 300h, 350) Megathread

LS500-18

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Haha. I say "best" in overall execution and as a holistic product. Unless you're looking for performance and acceleration, the ESh is pretty much perfect: Priced like an IS, more room than the LS, it has every reasonable luxury feature, the latest technology, it looks good and it returns 40+ MPG.

The LS is too compromised - the powertrains aren't a match for the platform, the suspension changes they've made over the years have dulled the agility and sharpness of GA-L and the interior isn't very spacious. The design, drive and demeanor of the car don't match, IMO.

The IS benefits from the "New N" platform being one of Lexus' best, but it needed to be all-new in 2021, not refreshed. It also badly needs new powertrains... IS 350 (2.4T), IS 350h, IS 450 (3.4L), IS 450h+, etc. Lots to love about the IS, but Lexus has done as much as they can with an old car and platform.

The ES, the more you live with it you realize, is nearly perfect. Both the V6 and the hybrid are well mated to the chassis, suspension and demeanor of the car. The hybrid has enough power and makes up for the horsepower disadvantage from the V6 with smoothness and MPG. The interior is shockingly nice and has very thoughtful details: Levinson speaker grills, quilted leather, soft touch points, different colors and textures of materials on the dash and doors, the new headlight and grill shapes are beautiful together, sun shades, ML audio is great, 12.3" screen is well placed and well integrated, trunk is huge, the list goes on.

The ES isn't making any qualms about just being a fantastic luxury sedan, and it's the only car where Lexus didn't try to make that formula into something different. It's very succinct and clear in what it is, in a way the new LS is not and the IS cannot be because of age and technology.
Yes! The LS5 powertrain is too unrefined, laggy and not smooth. It has the power on paper (and in mid-to-higher RPM) but if they'd get rid of the 10 speed trans and the turbos and put a V8 in there it would be better. V8's are dead, though. Lexus really shouldn't have put run-flat tires on the LS either, that did the car no favors.

The ESh is a wonderful all around car in many ways. Very quiet, smooth, great ride, etc. It could use more torque and AWD but otherwise it's a total package.
 

Sulu

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That was and is the main and non negligible point of criticism, which hurts the car's overall perception/product.
Really??? Then I don't understand how and why Lexus sells so many of them.
 

JustADude

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Yes! The LS5 powertrain is too unrefined, laggy and not smooth. It has the power on paper (and in mid-to-higher RPM) but if they'd get rid of the 10 speed trans and the turbos and put a V8 in there it would be better. V8's are dead, though. Lexus really shouldn't have put run-flat tires on the LS either, that did the car no favors.

The ESh is a wonderful all around car in many ways. Very quiet, smooth, great ride, etc. It could use more torque and AWD but otherwise it's a total package.
LS needs the IForceMAX powertrain. ES should get the 450H+ for next gen and would be the best suited powertrain for that vehicle imo
 

Gecko

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That was and is the main and non negligible point of criticism, which hurts the car's overall perception/product.

Which one? AWD or torque?

AWD I agree with, but torque really isn't bad for 90% of driving, and the car has pretty good pickup for what it is.
 

Levi

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Which one? AWD or torque?

AWD I agree with, but torque really isn't bad for 90% of driving, and the car has pretty good pickup for what it is.
Both, but it is true car reviewers are unable to accurately judge hybrids, and do not see the advantages. Car reviewers are way above in consumption compared to real world driving and expect Tesla Plaid acceleration from everything, being spoiled, they profit from their test drives to "smash the pedal" which is not representative of everyday driving.
 

LS500-18

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Which one? AWD or torque?

AWD I agree with, but torque really isn't bad for 90% of driving, and the car has pretty good pickup for what it is.
Yes absolutely. I said the hybrid could use more torque, that's mainly because I also drive my wife's RAV4 Prime and it has the same system that I want - AWD, loads of torque, PHEV etc. More torque is easily possible with the same eCVT as the Prime.

I know the current ES will not get hybrid AWD or more torque. The hybrid absolutely has decent torque for what it is. Too much torque is pointless in FWD (see ES350 front wheelspin).
 

JustADude

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Yes absolutely. I said the hybrid could use more torque, that's mainly because I also drive my wife's RAV4 Prime and it has the same system that I want - AWD, loads of torque, PHEV etc. More torque is easily possible with the same eCVT as the Prime.

I know the current ES will not get hybrid AWD or more torque. The hybrid absolutely has decent torque for what it is. Too much torque is pointless in FWD (see ES350 front wheelspin).
I think we will see an AWD only ES lineup for next gen. 350H awd from NX, 350 can possibly get a fwd option, and either a 450H+ awd or 500H awd. All these should have more torque than the outgoing powertrains
 

ssun30

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Max output torque comparison of various powertrains for TNGA:
250h/300h FWD: 2412N.m
250h AWD: 2989N.m
300h AWD: 3712N.m
350h/400h+ FWD: 3235N.m
350h/450h+ AWD: 4535N.m
300e (UX300e): 3507N.m
300e FWD (bZ4X): 3667N.m
300e AWD: 4660N.m
450e AWD: 5997N.m
500h AWD (2nd): 6938N.m

One often overlooked advantage of eAWD is it adds extra wheel torque while mechanical AWD doesn't, thus giving them very strong initial acceleration. Simply giving the ES300h E-Four will add 54% extra wheel torque while upgrading to 350h AWD almost doubles that along with considerable performance gains without increasing power by much.

EDIT: I deleted the figures for ICEVs since there is no fair way to compare output torque of ICEVs vs. electrified vehicles.
 
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CRSKTN

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Max wheel torque comparison of various powertrains for TNGA:
200: 2979N.m
250 (2nd): 2929N.m
250h/300h FWD: 2412N.m
250h AWD: 2989N.m
300h AWD: 3712N.m
350h/400h+ FWD: 3235N.m
350h/450h+ AWD: 4535N.m
350 (2nd): 4557N.m
300e (UX300e): 3507N.m
300e FWD (bZ4X): 3667N.m
300e AWD: 4660N.m
450e AWD: 5997N.m
500h AWD (2nd): 6938N.m

One often overlooked advantage of eAWD is it adds extra wheel torque while mechanical AWD doesn't, thus giving them very strong initial acceleration. Simply giving the ES300h E-Four will add 54% extra wheel torque while upgrading to 350h AWD almost doubles that along with considerable performance gains without increasing power by much.

BTW the RX500h has 52% more wheel torque than IS500 (4574N.m), 39% more than LC500 (5000N.m), 25% more than LS500 (5556N.m) and 24% more than LC500h (5575N.m). It actually has the highest torque among all "500" labeled powertrains and just 1% lower than LX600/J300/Tundra (7000N.m). I'm very curious how it will drive.
Could you help us understand this a bit better? How is the max wheel torque calculated/defined?
 

ssun30

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Could you help us understand this a bit better? How is the max wheel torque calculated/defined?
It was my mistake to call it wheel torque as it doesn't account for mechanical losses. Toyota lists those numbers as "torque measured at the output shaft of the powertrain", so this is the net torque multiplied by overall reduction (transmission reduction ratio x final drive reduction ratio) before sent to the wheel. In real world this would be close to torque measured by an axle dyno.

EDIT: never mind I consider the calculations for ICEVs to be very flawed and result in unrealistic numbers; the ICE would have to be able to rev to 20k rpm and use direct drive which is not possible. The hybrid/EV torque figures are consistent with Toyota's own data.
 
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mikeavelli

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What I do know is if the same magic they did on the RX with Direct 4 hits the ES, it’s gonna be pretty damn good.