7th Generation (2019+) Lexus ES (250, 260, 300h, 350) Megathread

spwolf

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Some example:
-Personalized climate control accessible through the apps to send to the car before you step foot has been available since at least 2011 from BMW

very clunky and barely worked for most people.

It is one of those things - they checked it as done, but in reality it sucked and was unusable.
But sure, TMC version sucked even more.

Good example is mobile phone as a key. In my buddies 2018 E43 this exist as an option... to make it work, you have to... store one key in the car? Or another example - it seems climate control via smartphone works in MB only for EVs?

Compared to Tesla for instance, which is not perfect by any means, all of these systems are terribly unreliable and rudimentary.

So TMC actually managed to jump ahead of the pack in some features, not just following.
They do need to iron out the issues though.
 

ssun30

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Some example:
-Personalized climate control accessible through the apps to send to the car before you step foot has been available since at least 2011 from BMW
-A dedicated inhouse technical team developing their own in house infotainment platform has been the case with at least the three major german competitors for more then a decade. BMW was the first to go all in, while MB and Audi joined the club later on.
-The "hello [insert Automaker name]" wake up command has been available for almost half a decade, and is actually poised to go away in upcoming updates.

Just for clarification not saying Lexus/TMC did wrong by finally moving to a more current platform (customers love it), but I do hope they recognize functional trends much more rapidly then before and have an action plan to implement them as rapidly then before. The fear of slowing down or saying this is functional enough is a concern that has grown from years of Lexus products. Lexus in the early 00s dominated the field with industry infotainment firsts.
What you are saying is like saying a camcorder is 20 years more advanced than a smartphone because it can record video 20 years before a smartphone can do. Yes they achieve the same purpose but are completely incomparable.

Dedicated in-house infotainment development has been in Toyota since early 2000s. It's called G-Book. Even before G-Book in late 90s JDM Toyota GPS navigation systems can already do voice commands. This doesn't mean Toyota finally have an infotainment system they already developed..20 years ago?

On Toyota side infotainment development has always been market specific. The ChDM team has been ahead of rest of the world by ~3 years. But Lexus seemed to follow the very backwards JP team, which is basically stuck in the G-Book era. The US team really changed the game and is now leading their global infotainment effort.
I do agree its a good system then before and at the standard of whats available now and has been available for nearly a decade. My only concern stemming from years of inaction on part of TMC is that keep it stagnates at this, while the industry moves forward at a juggernaut's pace. The team behind this system is US based and seem to operate outside of the normal limitations and fragmentation that TMC has practiced in years before, but TMC JP can reel them in to their choosing.
Seeing how JDM Toyotas have also switched to the US-developed system, I don't think the JP team will ever get their hands on infotainment again.
 

spwolf

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it is not really US team per say, it is new company created to lead advanced technologies such as infotainment, and it is based in USA for global markets. although its principal is JDM company that is in charge of OS.

Somehow.

And it still has market differentiation - ie android auto being wireless in USA and wired in EU.

Nevertheless, still seems a lot better than before.
 

Sulu

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Pictures have been posted. The inclusion of the proper touchscreen means that the touchpad has been removed from the lower console and the 2 cupholders have been combined into one unit.

2023-Lexus-ES-25.jpg

Nice to see that the analog clock remains!
 

Gecko

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Lexus dropped off a 2022 ES 300h UL for me to drive over the next week and I have driven the car about 20 miles so far. I'll post more impressions as time goes on, but after having the car for a few hours and driving the LS 500 last year for ~10 days, I feel like Lexus has shifted to being content with the ES as their play for "the core Lexus sedan," while the IS and LS aim to be more niche and specific in their missions.

I always looked at the LS as the quintessential Lexus sedan, and I'm fairly confident the vehicle now deserving of that title is the ES. Priced like an IS but the size of an LS, it's just as much of a sedan killer as the RX is for other compact, midsize and 3 row CUVs: Packed with technology, incredibly smooth, thoughtful luxury features, cavernous space to relax and it looks great as well.

Ironically, driving the ES makes me better understand some of what Lexus has tried to do with the LS. If the ES is "most things to most people," it makes sense that Lexus tried to take the LS in a different direction being sportier and more dramatic. I've said for a long time that the LS is a V8 or iForce Max TTV6 + Hybrid powertrain away from living up to its full potential -- something more like a Panamera than an S Class.

The ES is really as much "LS" as anyone could need. I think Lexus wants to make the LS into the flagship car people want.

Maybe the next generation LS will finally live up to that promise?

8th gen ES with the same hardware and tech that we just saw debut in the Crown is going to be an even better vehicle with even broader appeal, so I hope Lexus has something extremely unique and bespoke planned for the next gen LS.

CEAFA0B7-1766-4D70-9B98-C74E178BFE9E.jpeg
 

ssun30

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^^ Seeing how Toyota now considers the LS "flagship drive-by-yourself car" as opposed to the Century "flagship chauffeured car", I agree the next direction is fully on driving performance. 2nd row comfort really isn't something people look for in a flagship sedan anymore. That role has been taken by SUVs or minivans depending on the market (even the S-Class itself is becoming niche). There are very few international markets where VIPs are transported in sedans. The 5LS was an awkward compromise when there were still legacy chauffeured LS buyers to appeal to. These people don't exist anymore.
 

Gecko

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^^ Seeing how Toyota now considers the LS "flagship drive-by-yourself car" as opposed to the Century "flagship chauffeured car", I agree the next direction is fully on driving performance. 2nd row comfort really isn't something people look for in a flagship sedan anymore. That role has been taken by SUVs or minivans depending on the market (even the S-Class itself is becoming niche). There are very few international markets where VIPs are transported in sedans. The 5LS was an awkward compromise when there were still legacy chauffeured LS buyers to appeal to. These people don't exist anymore.

Great points. And it was conceived and delivered at a time of major internal transition with TNGA, too, which I think has always been the 5LS' biggest struggle.

I still wish Lexus would do an LS 500 F SPORT Performance with the 5.0L V8. I would very seriously consider buying one because I love how the car looks, but both powertrains are no-gos for me in real world ownership.
 

LS500-18

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After more than 2 years with my LS500 I traded it in on an ES300h. I don't regret that for a second.

The LS5 powertrain is what really killed it for me. The interior was wonderful (mine was too early for the touchscreen). In many respects the ES is a better car, at least in my eyes. IMHO the LS is best used as a highway car whereas the ES is great on the highway or around town.

The ES (hybrid) is such a classy, smooth, stylish, comfortable car that I feel no need to spend nearly double just to say I have an LS. If Lexus would give me a PHEV AWD ES with a massaging seat I'd never need to buy another car again LOL
 

Berto3818

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I agree with @Gecko the next LS must pull out all the stops either full electric or iMax or even v8. The ES has been the defacto flagship for sometime now with the sales to prove it. When are both of these models up for a total refresh? Has there been any talk of the GAL-L platform being able to support electrification? By the looks of the new crown it seems the next ES is well on its way to be electric.
 
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CRSKTN

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ES is a volume seller full size sedan, not a flagship.
It may be quintessential Lexus but not flagship that’s different
 
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spwolf

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It is interesting, RX is classic Lexus while S class is classic MB.
Same problem for bmw and audi though.
 
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sl0519

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Great points. And it was conceived and delivered at a time of major internal transition with TNGA, too, which I think has always been the 5LS' biggest struggle.

I still wish Lexus would do an LS 500 F SPORT Performance with the 5.0L V8. I would very seriously consider buying one because I love how the car looks, but both powertrains are no-gos for me in real world ownership.

I really couldn't care less whether they are aiming for sportiness or pure comfort. Problem is though, rest of competitors can do both things without compromise (that is, great handling agility, while still maintaining high lvls of comfort). There is no denying that the new platform does bring its handling prowess to a whole new lvl that was unimagined of an LS, however they also seem to forget the attributes that made the LS traditionally good at (smoothness, quiteness, comfort). Then with the latest model, they changed the character of the car completely, by retuning the suspension as soft as possible with just one step away from being "Lincoln Town Car" floaty. To me it seems they are doing either this or the other, but neither both things great. I'd say they"ll have their work cut out for them, should there be a new model in the future. Perhaps losing some weight with more usage of lightweight materials is a good way to start. Making active suspension / rear wheel steering as standard if possible, and smooth out powertrains that ppl were previously complaining (bringing TTV8 hmm? utilizing powerful electric motors?).
 

Levi

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ES does look good. It ES300h is an adequate powertrain for fuel economy. It lacks a performance version. Even a BMW 530i (with B48) obliterates an ES350.

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The front overhang (not talking about this particular photo) is the shortest proportionally of any FWD Toyota/Lexus. Even RWD Lexus/Toyotas have proportionally long front overhangs.
 

Gecko

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[Puts on flame-proof body suit]

The ES 300h is the overall best sedan that Lexus currently makes.

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Gecko

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Best? As in Fast? :LOL:

Haha. I say "best" in overall execution and as a holistic product. Unless you're looking for performance and acceleration, the ESh is pretty much perfect: Priced like an IS, more room than the LS, it has every reasonable luxury feature, the latest technology, it looks good and it returns 40+ MPG.

The LS is too compromised - the powertrains aren't a match for the platform, the suspension changes they've made over the years have dulled the agility and sharpness of GA-L and the interior isn't very spacious. The design, drive and demeanor of the car don't match, IMO.

The IS benefits from the "New N" platform being one of Lexus' best, but it needed to be all-new in 2021, not refreshed. It also badly needs new powertrains... IS 350 (2.4T), IS 350h, IS 450 (3.4L), IS 450h+, etc. Lots to love about the IS, but Lexus has done as much as they can with an old car and platform.

The ES, the more you live with it you realize, is nearly perfect. Both the V6 and the hybrid are well mated to the chassis, suspension and demeanor of the car. The hybrid has enough power and makes up for the horsepower disadvantage from the V6 with smoothness and MPG. The interior is shockingly nice and has very thoughtful details: Levinson speaker grills, quilted leather, soft touch points, different colors and textures of materials on the dash and doors, the new headlight and grill shapes are beautiful together, sun shades, ML audio is great, 12.3" screen is well placed and well integrated, trunk is huge, the list goes on.

The ES isn't making any qualms about just being a fantastic luxury sedan, and it's the only car where Lexus didn't try to make that formula into something different. It's very succinct and clear in what it is, in a way the new LS is not and the IS cannot be because of age and technology.

Image from iOS (3).jpg
 
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ssun30

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I just noticed the regular Crown hybrid system is the medium-size 2.5L THS (300h) instead of the large-size 2.5L THS (350h). It got a modest power bump to 172kW(234PS) thanks to ICE upgrade (131kW -> 137kW) and use of bipolar NiMH battery. The power output is in the middle ground between the old 300h and current 350h system. Only a modest upgrade but it's nice to see them constantly improving it. From 155kW/211PS in 2018 to 172kW/234PS in 2022. All those incremental improvements add up.

I wonder if the next-gen ES will have this upgraded "300h" or an upgraded "350h" to keep the differentiation. For example, upgrading 350h with the Crown hybrid max's larger battery would increase output from 184kW/250PS to 198kW/269PS.

Both the Crown and RX use bipolar NiMH batteries instead of Li-ion. I think Toyota is trying to free up production capacity for PHV/BEVs and switching most hybrids back to bipolar NiMH.
 
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Will1991

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It’s missing a plug-in version to be relevant in Western Europe.

You’ve so many incentives around here for both personal and company cars that I don’t get how Lexus let this one pass to be honest…

They’ve a considerably more efficient drivetrain but decided to do nothing until very recently (NX450h+)…

And 2025 for a PHEV variant might be too late for the ES to become relevant in here.
 

ssun30

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It’s missing a plug-in version to be relevant in Western Europe.

You’ve so many incentives around here for both personal and company cars that I don’t get how Lexus let this one pass to be honest…

They’ve a considerably more efficient drivetrain but decided to do nothing until very recently (NX450h+)…

And 2025 for a PHEV variant might be too late for the ES to become relevant in here.
How many PHV options to offer is ultimately determined by battery production capacity. There is a fixed number of batteries allocated to a set of models per year. So getting more PHV models out is like robbing Peter to pay Paul...

I feel ES in Europe is just an inconvenient transition period when GS got discontinued and IS was not redesigned. I doubt it will be relevant in EU after IS EV in 2025.
 

Will1991

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I understand that, but I tend to have two opinions on that:
- From a company perspective TMC is on a roll, with high volume and high profit margins
- From product offering, given TMC pioneered the hybrids and makes millions more each year, I don’t understand how they aren’t even on the TOP20 for “plugable” cars:


World-plugin-vehicle-sales-top-brands-january-june-2022-logo.png



And I really think that even a ES400h+ would make it considerably harder for Tesla to move so many Model 3’s (a car without any real competition IMHO).