Is The Era Of The Flagship Sedan Over? | Carscoops
A number of luxury brands have dropped flagship sedans altogether, while others are withering on the vine
www.carscoops.com
5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread
- Thread starter krew
- Start date
www.carscoops.com
Haven’t heard a thing.Authors maybe reading too many forum posts as the source info. Lexus, Audi flagships may need to bow out, due to lack of demand?Is The Era Of The Flagship Sedan Over? | Carscoops
A number of luxury brands have dropped flagship sedans altogether, while others are withering on the vine
I believe this was the problem with the LS500. Lexus listened to "journalists" about how the LS460 was too boring and not sporty enough instead of listening to owners. There is a disconnect between what people who are buying cars want and what journalists want. Journalists don't buy vehicles really, they drive a new one every week.
The LS500 (and S220 Crown) were so different because the previous buyer demographics have become so old they cannot get in and out of sedans anymore. So they were trying to aim for a younger demographic who values sportiness than second row comfort.
The problem with boring cars is that dead people don't buy cars. That's why the entire full-size mainstream sedan market is gone.
Kelvin2020
Admirer
- Messages
- 521
- Reactions
- 1,153
I think the LF-ZL will replace the LS
@Kelvin2020 that’s what it’s looking like.
and nobody wants a lexus large sedan. The s class has that in the bag, throw the keys out (even true for the other bba).
Hold the Ls ws a place holder until they can figure out a century like suv.
mikeavelli
Moderator
- Messages
- 7,020
- Reactions
- 15,590
The LS still sells better than most anything not S class. Thats like saying 7 series, A8, etc etc should just quit,
F1 Silver Arrows
Expert
- Messages
- 2,333
- Reactions
- 3,778
Even the W223 S-Class has been a letdown compared to the legendary W222 chassis. I honestly think Mercedes-Benz created a car so good that not even they can replicate the magic of that car, at least for a few generations.
As of Q1 2024, the S-Class has been knocked down to THIRD place in the full-size luxury car class for the US market. What's second? The BMW 7-Series. First? Well you'd be surprised to hear that it's the Audi e-Tron GT.
Lexus is hanging on all-right despite it being a bit lackluster of a car. They can easily turn this around with the 6th generation and sell better than cars like the Taycan, and consolidate 4th place.
I personally don't think Lexus messed all that much up by making the car considerably more sporty and it having good driving characteristics. The market is moving towards that direction for luxury cars that aren't a Rolls-Royce or a Mercedes-Maybach. They won by having it sell more than the Panamera and the Quattroporte, which would be the kind of cars that the new LS would compete against. With that said, they used to sell a lot more with the old formula (it could also be the fact that the old LS came exclusively with a V8).
An ideal 6th generation LS for me would be if it moved more close to the original recipe, but still retained a lot of the sportiness that the 5th generation had. Personally I think the biggest dealbreaker for people was that the 5th generation did not have a V8, and I think a V8 as well as more competent hybrid powertrains would be fit for the 6th generation LS.
It's clear that whatever Lexus does, they need to go back to developing new ICE powertrains. There's no arguing around this.
Photo of the sales figures below from goodcarbadcar:
As of Q1 2024, the S-Class has been knocked down to THIRD place in the full-size luxury car class for the US market. What's second? The BMW 7-Series. First? Well you'd be surprised to hear that it's the Audi e-Tron GT.
Lexus is hanging on all-right despite it being a bit lackluster of a car. They can easily turn this around with the 6th generation and sell better than cars like the Taycan, and consolidate 4th place.
I personally don't think Lexus messed all that much up by making the car considerably more sporty and it having good driving characteristics. The market is moving towards that direction for luxury cars that aren't a Rolls-Royce or a Mercedes-Maybach. They won by having it sell more than the Panamera and the Quattroporte, which would be the kind of cars that the new LS would compete against. With that said, they used to sell a lot more with the old formula (it could also be the fact that the old LS came exclusively with a V8).
An ideal 6th generation LS for me would be if it moved more close to the original recipe, but still retained a lot of the sportiness that the 5th generation had. Personally I think the biggest dealbreaker for people was that the 5th generation did not have a V8, and I think a V8 as well as more competent hybrid powertrains would be fit for the 6th generation LS.
It's clear that whatever Lexus does, they need to go back to developing new ICE powertrains. There's no arguing around this.
Photo of the sales figures below from goodcarbadcar:
Gor134
Admirer
- Messages
- 912
- Reactions
- 1,636
I have no explanation other than Lexus's RWD plans being in limbo due to the uncertainty of EV future at the moment. I would think that the LS will see more on the GA-L platform in the future, as we just have a brand new Crown on that platform already.
Motor
Expert
- Messages
- 2,380
- Reactions
- 3,401
HIGHS: Lacks extraneous gimmicks, extremely supple ride, plush interior accommodations.
LOWS: Lacks extraneous gimmicks, not a competitive performer, looks older than the Germans.
VERDICT: Keeping it simple? Look no further.