5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread

[RichieRich]

To put in real simple terms, it's called the trickle down effect. Saves a great deal in development like spwolf said.

 

[Gecko]

uh, you are looking at this completely wrong my friend.

Point of TNGA is to cut costs, especially capital costs and invest them back into the vehicles to be more competitive vs competition.

Steering wheel of LS is exactly great example - LS has high end steering wheel, and cheap UX has been able to get very similar wheel because they cut other overall costs of the vehicle. LS did not get UX wheel, it is other way around. And wow you end up with luxury steering wheel in UX, while in X1 competition steering wheel looks like it came from Toyota, and lets not even talk about base level on board computer which looks like it is from Yugo.

So with them cutting development costs of UX and ES and C-HR, etc, they managed to put more tech, more engines, more luxury into the same price. Unlike before, where to get lower price, they cut interior and engine tech in cheaper vehicles, so you ended up with 4 speed automatic or brittle plastics in Corolla.

It is pretty exciting actually, and completely opposite from them cost cutting their cars.

I completely understand and agree with what you are saying, but as Lexus has been making some questionable decisions at the top end of their portfolio aside from LC, you start to end up with very competitive entry level and mid level products, and then flagship products that seem less special. It used to be very different, but as you note - this move is benefitting their cars at the bottom end, so I guess more people win out with that formula.

 

[ssun30]

The LS doesn't get any less special because somehow the UX has a similar steering wheel. You don't get hard plastics rear doors on a LS. You don't get hand-cut glass or 3.5 turbocharged engine on an ES. It's exactly like before when you won't find a V8 and massage seats in anything but the LS. Improving your low end products doesn't make the flagship any less desirable.

 

[RichieRich]

I completely understand and agree with what you are saying, but as Lexus has been making some questionable decisions at the top end of their portfolio aside from LC, you start to end up with very competitive entry level and mid level products, and then flagship products that seem less special. It used to be very different, but as you note - this move is benefitting their cars at the bottom end, so I guess more people win out with that formula.

I agree Gecko. Lexus has been behind the eight ball for some time now. They use to be upfront. (Besides the LC)

 

[Gecko]

The LS doesn't get any less special because somehow the UX has a similar steering wheel. You don't get hard plastics rear doors on a LS. You don't get hand-cut glass or 3.5 turbocharged engine on an ES. It's exactly like before when you won't find a V8 and massage seats in anything but the LS. Improving your low end products doesn't make the flagship any less desirable.

I had a much longer post typed out but it really just comes down to this, in my own opinion: I think the TNGA-K products - Camry, Avalon, ES - all seem to have been "swing for the fences" efforts, short of CarPlay integration on the Camry and AWD on the ES. Looking at each of those models and considering their histories and competitive sets, all three of them are incredibly impressive when you look at their evolution. I just don't think the LS evolved as much, so the perceived "gap" between something like an ES and LS is just a lot smaller now than it was before.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I just don't think the LS evolved as much, so the perceived "gap" between something like an ES and LS is just a lot smaller now than it was before.

I think there's always been an air of "the engineers are *well* into what's coming next, but we had to stop and ship something" for the LS500. I similarly get the impression that the refresh version with the LF-FC styling will nuke the world, like the '89 all over again.

But I gotta tell ya, the LS500 as it exists right now is still pretty hot. I came out of lunch today to find someone had parked a brand-new Panamera next to my LS500, and they were both attracting some serious notice.

 

[Levi]

Luxury is equal to execution, not size. If Lexus is a luxurious car, then big or small it has to be well executed. Unlike the Germans, where when you want a small luxurious car, you get a cheap car with a luxurious badge only. A cheap 1 Series does not make the 7 Series any more special, it makes the 1 Series a scam. Even so the 7 Series is not special, because in first place it never tried to.

 

[spwolf]

I completely understand and agree with what you are saying, but as Lexus has been making some questionable decisions at the top end of their portfolio aside from LC, you start to end up with very competitive entry level and mid level products, and then flagship products that seem less special. It used to be very different, but as you note - this move is benefitting their cars at the bottom end, so I guess more people win out with that formula.

Honestly, you have been in LS and LC, you know they have very special vehicles there, unlike anything else on the market, and far above luxury quotient of Audi or BMW.

So there is apsolutely no need to worry about that.

On the other hand, I am estatic that we are finally getting cars like UX and CHR with great interiors and suspensions.

 

[Rhambler]

In my opinion, Lexus should have just thrown caution into the wind and made the LS a hatchback just like the Panamera.

I get the sense they tried to capture that essence, that they wanted to go to that direction in style, but was just too afraid to take the plunge. They would have been thanking themselves had they had the courage and guts to do it in my honest and humble opinion. They tried to do too much without defining itself. That is a problem.

Had they gone this route, they would have created a niche for themselves or at least TRULY separated themselves from the crowd.

A larger, more luxurious, spacious and more comfortable Panamera. A practical executive coach. A winning formula that really no one else has. That old Yamaha 5.0 V8 would have been right at home in this car as well, although a V8tt would be much better had they had the foresight to develop one concurrently with the car.

It would have been a global winner, I do believe that.

 

[Levi]

That is what the LQ will be. The car that redefined luxurious transport the most was the R Class. Being based on the M Class in terms of luxury execution instead of on the S Class, it failed. WHile just as capable, it did not have the off-road style of the M Class, but it did not clearly add more of anything else. A very nice car, but not enough well executed to be understood by the customers. 5GT/6GT is an abomination.

 

[Berto3818]

It's way better than the SCLASS or BMW.. my only question is the steering still power/tilt and telescope on its own?

 

[Ian Schmidt]

It's way better than the SCLASS or BMW.. my only question is the steering still power/tilt and telescope on its own?

The LS500 has power tilt/telescope on the steering wheel, yes.

 

[Berto3818]

Thanks Ian! do you know if it moves on its own or is there a button you can control it with?

 

[maiaramdan]

Honestly the LS 500 is DOA for me because of lacking V8, the strange thing is that they already keep putting the 5.0l V8 engine in the LC and not giving it to the LS, Lexus continuing the same stupidity that making both GS and IS near dead now

 

[Levi]

Honestly the LS 500 is DOA for me because of lacking V8, the strange thing is that they already keep putting the 5.0l V8 engine in the LC and not giving it to the LS, Lexus continuing the same stupidity that making both GS and IS near dead now

I see the issue of Lexus being inconsistent. But I think a power-to-weight ratio of 5 PS/kg is fairly enough, and by no means slow.

 

[Berto3818]

Morning.. Isn't that 5.0 Liter V8 Dated though? I mean the TTV6 has more HP and torque that put together. I think it has the same amount of HP but it has more Torque than the V8. I would go drive it if you haven't already before making any assumptions like that because you are going to be very surprised. The TTV6 is no joke.

 

[Gecko]

Morning.. Isn't that 5.0 Liter V8 Dated though? I mean the TTV6 has more HP and torque that put together. I think it has the same amount of HP but it has more Torque than the V8. I would go drive it if you haven't already before making any assumptions like that because you are going to be very surprised. The TTV6 is no joke.

IMO, the "dated" 2UR-GSE V8 is a FAR superior engine to the V35A-FTS TT V6 - especially for a flagship car. Drive them both and I can guarantee you will agree.

 

[Berto3818]

Hello again, I'll do that but aren't they supposed to be replacing that with a TTV8? instead. I'm not to sure but from what I read they are coming up with with one that will have over 600 HP.. now if they keep that 5.0 they should put it in. I'm just getting started in this forum so I'm sure you know more than I would ever know.

R,

Markus

 

[Berto3818]

But they could put that V8 in there. you never know. it could possibly happen.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Thanks Ian! do you know if it moves on its own or is there a button you can control it with?

It's got the usual Lexus controls, and of course it retracts and moves up when you shut off the car like the LS has always done.

And I think the 2UR would be a disaster in the LS. But apparently I'm missing out on the vast number of people who want to buy a brand new LS or S Class or 7 Series to go stoplight drag racing like some common hooligan in a Mustang.