5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread

[Gecko]

Alright the question is simple then.. Why did they just put the 5.0 in there then? instead of the TTV6. The 4.6 was horrible. The 3.5TTV6 is better than that V8 would ever be and i have a friend who has IS F and his 5.0 only has 416 HP... I think we are really underestimating the power that this engine packs... Good debate but maybe they will drop a 8 in their. Now when the LS F comes out it will have the new TTV8 which will probably replace the 8 you are talking about.. Maybe they are updating it.. who knows but I do know a TTV8 is coming.

"Future-proofing." That was Lexus' answer for the TT V6 instead of a V8. The IS F motor is over a decade old now, so why would we be talking about that? 2UR-GSE is the updated version that has been around since the RC F and it is a fantastic engine.

This is lexus's first ever twin turbo though... and they did a very good job with this motor. I don't see another V6 even coming close and this can run with the 8's I'm just sorry to say the days of big v8s are just gone... you got to get used to it.

I work in the automotive industry and get a lot of time with other manufacturer's products. After having been in S560, 750i and also 740i, the LS 500 is simply no match for the S560 or 750i in terms of powertrain comparisons. Both of those cars are much faster and their powertrains are much smoother. 740i is a good competitor for LS 500... even though it is advertised as ~330hp, that motor is underrated and produces more like 360hp/370lb-ft of torque. Depending on trim, the 740i is also ~700-900lbs lighter than LS 500 which levels the playing field. Both LS 500 and 740i are 0-60 in the mid to low 5 second range whereas the S560 and 750i are 4.5 to 4.7. S450 would be another good competitor but I haven't driven that car yet to gauge its powertrain.

It is difficult to gauge just how good of an engine the 3.5L TT V6 really is because the LS is such a heavy car and so far, is the only recipient of this engine. LS is substantially heavier than it's 6 cylinder competitors and as heavy or heavier than the V8 models, so weight may be the one factor that is preventing this engine from really shining. It would be nice to see the V35A-FTS in something like a GS or IS F so that we could gauge it's capabilities in a lighter application, because for now, Lexus advertised it as competitive with Mercedes/BMW's V8s and the numbers just don't line up. Is the culprit weight or is it the engine itself - or both?

 

[sl0519]

"Future-proofing." That was Lexus' answer for the TT V6 instead of a V8. The IS F motor is over a decade old now, so why would we be talking about that? 2UR-GSE is the updated version that has been around since the RC F and it is a fantastic engine.



I work in the automotive industry and get a lot of time with other manufacturer's products. After having been in S560, 750i and also 740i, the LS 500 is simply no match for the S560 or 750i in terms of powertrain comparisons. Both of those cars are much faster and their powertrains are much smoother. 740i is a good competitor for LS 500... even though it is advertised as ~330hp, that motor is underrated and produces more like 360hp/370lb-ft of torque. Depending on trim, the 740i is also ~700-900lbs lighter than LS 500 which levels the playing field. Both LS 500 and 740i are 0-60 in the mid to low 5 second range whereas the S560 and 750i are 4.5 to 4.7. S450 would be another good competitor but I haven't driven that car yet to gauge its powertrain.

It is difficult to gauge just how good of an engine the 3.5L TT V6 really is because the LS is such a heavy car and so far, is the only recipient of this engine. LS is substantially heavier than it's 6 cylinder competitors and as heavy or heavier than the V8 models, so weight may be the one factor that is preventing this engine from really shining. It would be nice to see the V35A-FTS in something like a GS or IS F so that we could gauge it's capabilities in a lighter application, because for now, Lexus advertised it as competitive with Mercedes/BMW's V8s and the numbers just don't line up. Is the culprit weight or is it the engine itself - or both?

Exactly.
Also I'm curious why in terms of weight, lexus is always behind the competition (except 4GS vs F10 5er)
The new GA-L is suppose to be a more rigid, lighter platform than the predecessor
They claim how much lighter it is on paper but in reality, whether its on the LC (~4400 lbs) or the LS (~4500-5000 lbs), both are much heavier than the competition. I wonder where the "extra" weight comes from.

 

[Berto3818]

You know more than I would ever but I would have to say both. I test drove it and it went very well with me. Your rational is very soild

 

[Berto3818]

Very good debate! love it! Hopefully they will do something beef up the 6 make it stronger and put the current version of the 5.0 in there and then the TTV8 is coming. Then what will you say? Yeah I agree the new TTV6 should be tested in something lighter to see exactly how good it is but they say they built it just for the LS...

R,

Markus

 

[Gecko]

Exactly.
Also I'm curious why in terms of weight, lexus is always behind the competition (except 4GS vs F10 5er)
The new GA-L is suppose to be a more rigid, lighter platform than the predecessor
They claim how much lighter it is on paper but in reality, whether its on the LC (~4400 lbs) or the LS (~4500-5000 lbs), both are much heavier than the competition. I wonder where the "extra" weight comes from.

Very much agree. This is something that has been debated here on and off and I know there are differing opinions. It always reminds me of what happened at the RC F launch when I think one of the writers from Motor Trend was asking Yukihiko Yaguchi, the chief engineer, why the car was so heavy. Yaguchi replied that the car was very, very rigid. My recollection is spotty, but I think the Motor Trend writer pressed him on it again and he just reiterated that the car was so heavy because it's so rigid. MT asked, "Is it more rigid than the M4?" I guess Yaguchi shrugged because he wasn't sure. Embarrassing, but to me, this was a reflection of how Lexus seems to often engineer and build their cars in a vacuum and then we get to the finish line where they're so incredibly proud of their own product.... but it is quite flawed in some way. Part of this is Japanese culture.

I think GA-L is a real transformation of thinking and execution for Lexus and I believe they are putting forth their very best effort to build rigid, safe, balanced and multi-capable platforms. Unfortunately, I think weight savings has not been as much of a consideration as it is for some competitors - but I like where Lexus is going and believe that weight savings might come in the second generation of GA-L products. This is the first time they've really wiped the slate clean and engineered a flexible, scaleable, high performance architecture from the ground up, whereas many competitors have generations of such platforms. Audi and BMW have been quite focused on weight savings for the last few years and it is paying off in their more recent products. I do think Lexus will get there.

After driving the LS 500 though, the chassis really is phenomenal. It is a great car to drive... but to be so heavy, it could have really used a V8. The marriage of that engine into such a heavy vehicle was just not a great execution, IMO.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

The TTV6 still puts a smile on my face every day, and I think EV is the new prestige (Porsche bought a stake in Rimac yesterday). So I'd like to see a performance hybrid with the full-on TTV6 instead of the Camry engine and some seriously strong electric motors. Tune the software right and the "too heavy" LS is slicing through AMGs like butter.

 

[mikeavelli]

Very much agree. This is something that has been debated here on and off and I know there are differing opinions. It always reminds me of what happened at the RC F launch when I think one of the writers from Motor Trend was asking Yukihiko Yaguchi, the chief engineer, why the car was so heavy. Yaguchi replied that the car was very, very rigid. My recollection is spotty, but I think the Motor Trend writer pressed him on it again and he just reiterated that the car was so heavy because it's so rigid. MT asked, "Is it more rigid than the M4?" I guess Yaguchi shrugged because he wasn't sure. Embarrassing, but to me, this was a reflection of how Lexus seems to often engineer and build their cars in a vacuum and then we get to the finish line where they're so incredibly proud of their own product.... but it is quite flawed in some way. Part of this is Japanese culture.

I think GA-L is a real transformation of thinking and execution for Lexus and I believe they are putting forth their very best effort to build rigid, safe, balanced and multi-capable platforms. Unfortunately, I think weight savings has not been as much of a consideration as it is for some competitors - but I like where Lexus is going and believe that weight savings might come in the second generation of GA-L products. This is the first time they've really wiped the slate clean and engineered a flexible, scaleable, high performance architecture from the ground up, whereas many competitors have generations of such platforms. Audi and BMW have been quite focused on weight savings for the last few years and it is paying off in their more recent products. I do think Lexus will get there.

After driving the LS 500 though, the chassis really is phenomenal. It is a great car to drive... but to be so heavy, it could have really used a V8. The marriage of that engine into such a heavy vehicle was just not a great execution, IMO.

I think in retrospect the issue was Yaguchi couldn't explain it was for a convertible which was planned to come until dealers insisted on the RX L and the RC F/RC Convertible was put on indefinite hold. The mid section from the 3IS Convertible was to support the RC Convertible.

In comparison I think we all agree the GS F simply is a better driving car as there is no getting around one platform compared to one made of 3 different ones.

AS for GA-L, I agree it is a revelation for Lexus. The LC drives fantastic, feels fantastic and feels strong as a tank. The LS amazingly drives like a 4 door LC and no longer like sport was a complete afterthought like in my old F-Sport.

 

[Berto3818]

LOL James, as soon as my messages come in. I refresh my monitor!! :0) I can't wait until I get my LS but all this talk of the V6 is dragging it down...

 

[Berto3818]

I drove the LS500 and for what it is worth it has a very strong motor and it punches. Engage sport sharp is really goes. I was airing my tester down rt 29 in md and it got up in no time. I think everyone should see the V6 for w hat it is and its a huge gain over the old 4.6 of course improvements will be made over the life cycle but after having driving it.. it is strong..

R,

Markus

 

[Ian Schmidt]

LOL James, as soon as my messages come in. I refresh my monitor!! :0) I can't wait until I get my LS but all this talk of the V6 is dragging it down...

You've driven it and you know you like it. That's all that matters. It's OK for other people to have other opinions, the bottom line is I'm driving a beautiful new LS (and you will be in about 5 months) and I love it

 

[Berto3818]

I can't wait Ian!!! when I get mine we will have to meet up!! Yes, I'm counting down the months when I walk in to Sheehy in Annapolis and make my order!

 

[maiaramdan]

I am amazed with this argument and honestly feels that my point regarding the V8 is a valid point as really even the most will buy the 6 cylinder but the 8 will still be the definition of this category

 

[Berto3818]

Morning!! No argument here. Just debate my man.. I don’t Agree with you because you have to look at the last V8 the LS had in it which was the 4.6 and now look at that new TTV6. This new motor kills that 8 and to say this or that about that 5.0 to me is unfair. You gotta stick to what the LS had it had a weak 8 that made 386 hp at 367 torque and now the TTV6 makes 416 and 442 torque running 4.6 0-60 which auto week validated a while back. That motor of good but I do agree on some points. I drove it and it’s one hell of power plant.

R,

Markus

 

[Gecko]

^The 1UR-FSE was a much more competitive engine for it's time than the V35A-FTS is now. It made equivalent power to the S550 and was more powerful than the 750i. In reality, the UR V8 was and is a great engine - very smooth, relatively efficient on the highway, enough power down low but with a willingness to rev high - it is one of Toyota's great engines, IMO. The problem is that the 1UR stuck around for too long with no updates and in that time, the Germans introduced new V8s, revisions of those V8s, turbos and then another round of enhancements to those turbo V8s. So looking back, it is easy to feel like the LS 460 was underpowered but in reality, it was actually more competitive with S and 7 at that time than the LS 500 is now.

 

[Berto3818]

Now that’s fair! And your right it a great motor with updates they could have got more out of it. All I’m saying is give the V35A-FTS a chance.

 

[Berto3818]

They did squeeze over 400 hp out of it.

 

[ssun30]

^The 1UR-FSE was a much more competitive engine for it's time than the V35A-FTS is now. It made equivalent power to the S550 and was more powerful than the 750i. In reality, the UR V8 was and is a great engine - very smooth, relatively efficient on the highway, enough power down low but with a willingness to rev high - it is one of Toyota's great engines, IMO. The problem is that the 1UR stuck around for too long with no updates and in that time, the Germans introduced new V8s, revisions of those V8s, turbos and then another round of enhancements to those turbo V8s. So looking back, it is easy to feel like the LS 460 was underpowered but in reality, it was actually more competitive with S and 7 at that time than the LS 500 is now.

83hp/L was a lot back in 2007. The 1UR-FSE was a very impressive engine. Mercedes needed an almost 1L bigger engine to achieve the same power on the S550, BMW never caught up before resorting to turbos, and Audi was not even close. The LS460 was indeed a more competitive product compared to what the LS500 is today.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

To me, the 4LS / 4.6 always felt underpowered vs. the 3LS (and vs. the allegedly less-powerful Germans of the time), and I was in one minor accident because of the 1UR's frustrating inability to get out of its own way from a dead stop. Smoothness means nothing if there's no power 'til 4000 RPM.

 

[Berto3818]

I don’t know how that motor could possibly compete with the Germans.. what do I know. I know what I know now about the 5LS and I don’t think the 4Ls could run with it..

R,

Markus

 

[Levi]

To me, the 4LS / 4.6 always felt underpowered vs. the 3LS (and vs. the allegedly less-powerful Germans of the time), and I was in one minor accident because of the 1UR's frustrating inability to get out of its own way from a dead stop. Smoothness means nothing if there's no power 'til 4000 RPM.

It could be the gear ratios, rather than the engine that made the 1UR feel underpowered. The 3UR does not feel underpowered (according to Tundra owners, but is thirsty).

I don’t know how that motor could possibly compete with the Germans.. what do I know. I know what I know now about the 5LS and I don’t think the 4Ls could run with it.

But so can a 7 Series with N54/N55/B58.