5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread

[spwolf]

They still said the engine struggles to accelerate when the drivers wants to go hard on the gas, i.e. laggy throttle response. Harsh transmission shifts is not a compliment.

I have a feeling that the 500h should be a better driving car. But it seems that no one has put the two against each other.

struggles means something like slow acceleration or strained acceleration (like noisy).

Europeans did not like 500h, so I doubt it will be sportier drive... both seem to be nice for cruising though.

In any case, when it comes to all the speed testings, including in-gear acceleration (which would show "sluggish" response), it is fastest car tested in MT comparo.

There are already people posting their experience on CL, seems good.

 

[mediumhot]

Lexus wouldn't be Lexus without some weird packaging logic

Interior upgrade package is a must but then there are some very exciting individual options that are not expensive like your choice of wood for only $800, panorama for only a grand, air suspension for only a $1,500, panoramic view monitor for $800. I find only ML and HUD unreasonably priced but I'm sure there will be few fans of it.

Luxury Package is not necessary at all, LSS+ A is pricey, Kiriko glass and door trim is like they played spin the wheel choose the deal and it stopped at $6,000 (very pricey considering you can't choose the interior color other than black), in other words Kiriko & Hand pleated package should have been an official premiere of L-Select program in US where customers can mix and match any kind of interior color with any kind of veneer.

And then comes the F-Sport nonsense. You pay $6,000 for cosmetic differences and then you have to pay $10,000 for the actual driving improvements. All of that while being limited in uninspiring interior color options and veneer. Why Lexus can't offer a wood trim in their F-Sports?

Also how does new LS look without premium LED headlights?

 

[mikeavelli]

Nice Super Bowl Ads!

 

[Gecko]

Not sure I ever saw it listed here, but here is the LS 500 and LS 500h MPG:

LS 500 RWD:
19 city / 30 highway / 23 combined

LS 500 AWD:
18 / 27 / 21

LS 500h RWD:
25 / 33 / 28

LS 500h AWD:
23 / 31 / 26

For comparison's sake:

BMW 740i:
21 / 29 / 24

BMW 740i xDrive:
19 / 28 / 22

BMW 750i:
17 / 26 / 20

BMW 750i xDrive:
16 / 25 / 19

Mercedes S450:
19 / 28 / 22

Mercedes S450 4Matic:
18 / 28 / 22

Mercedes S560 4Matic:
17 / 27 / 21

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Not sure I ever saw it listed here, but here is the LS 500 and LS 500h MPG:

LS 500 RWD:
19 city / 30 highway / 23 combined

LS 500 AWD:
18 / 27 / 21

LS 500h RWD:
25 / 33 / 28

LS 500h AWD:
23 / 31 / 26

For comparison's sake:

BMW 740i:
21 / 29 / 24

BMW 740i xDrive:
19 / 28 / 22

BMW 750i:
17 / 26 / 20

BMW 750i xDrive:
16 / 25 / 19

Mercedes S450:
19 / 28 / 22

Mercedes S450 4Matic:
18 / 28 / 22

Mercedes S560 4Matic:
17 / 27 / 21

Looks like everybody's following Lexus' lead in avoiding the Gas Guzzler Tax. Generally, that would mean official U.S. EPA numbers no worse than 16 mpg city, 23 mpg highway and 18 mpg combined. It looks like BMW's 750i xDrive comes closest without veering into Guzzler territory. The Lexus LS 500's margin of avoidance of the Guzzler Tax (and its margin of improved fuel economy vs GS F's 5-liter V8) gives me hope that the rumored V8 LS F will itself somehow avoid the U.S. Guzzler Tax.

 

[RichieRich]

There is a nice video comparing the LS F Sport and the Mercedes S560AMG on http://www.lexus.com/models/LS. Just scroll half way down the page and you will find it. Very different results from the other reviews/opinions when comparing The S Class To the LS.

 

[Gecko]

I would be very interested to see a comparison of:

LS 500 vs 740i vs S450 vs A8 3.0T

and

LS 500 vs 750i vs S560 vs A8 4.0TT

Regardless of what Lexus marketing says about the 3.5L TT V6 competing well with the German V8s, I have a sense that it really is more favorable with their 6-cylinder models. BMW's I6 is notoriously underrated and Audi's 3.0L V6 is newly updated. Mercedes' 3.0L V6 has been very potent in the C 43 and E 43 as well.

While the LS has a power advantage on paper, it's also a good bit heavier than its V6 rivals: Starting weight is 200lbs heavier than S450, 300lbs heavier than A8 and 500lbs heavier than 740i.

I was expecting this engine to end up somewhere between the German 6cyls and V8s, so I'm curious to see what real-world tests show. For the dealer and customer product tour, Lexus has been comparing the LS 500 with the 740i, S450 and A8 4.0. Interesting mix, IMO, since Lexus has made many comments about the engine being favorable against "V8 competitors" a la S560 and 750i.

Lexus quotes 0-60 in 4.6 seconds for the LS 500 RWD but most of the figures I have seen are in the low-to-mid 5 second range.

Perhaps more importantly, the early real-world reviews have mentioned that the engine is very smooth with regard to NVH, which is paramount to most LS buyers. I assume the reported issues with harsh transmission shifts and laggy power delivery might not be evident to many owners in the real world who aren't tracking or wringing out their vehicles.

I guess I'm just curious to see exactly how this engine stacks up: is it really a true "V8 replacement," does it ride the middle ground between TTV6s and V8s, or is it solidly in the arena of the German boosted 6 cylinders?

The Motor Trend comparo with the Genesis and 740e is not the measuring stick I'm looking for since that was a totally loaded car (rear seat exec package++) and it had AWD. I'm most interested to see the performance specs on a fairly optioned LS 500 RWD.

 

[RichieRich]

For what it's worth to anybody. There will be a V8 version in the LS via LS F, Upwards of 600HP and there will NOT be a GS model anymore in 2019.

 

[mikeavelli]

I don't really care about MPG in a flagship (honestly my LS 460 F-Sport got 13 MPG average around town) in regards to a buying decision but I do care about it for long trips and not having to stop for gas....some nice numbers below..

LS 500 RWD has a 21.7 gallon tank so that is a 651 range maximum at 30 MPG on a road trip....

The LS 500h has a 22.2 gallon tank so at 33 MPG highway we are talking 732.6 miles maximum....

;The LS 500 RWD at its 23mpg average = a 5oo gallon tank. The LS 500h at a 28 MPG average= a 621.6 gallon tank.

I like those numbers.

 

[Gecko]

I wanted to consolidate and share some feedback I'm reading and hearing from dealers about the new LS.

I don't know how else to put this, but I have heard directly from two dealers that the car is not off to a great start with sales. A local dealer here had only one car pre-sold and another didn't have any pre-sale orders despite a lot of customers vocalizing their interest in a "new LS" over the last two years. One dealer has stopped ordering more cars until they can sell the ones they have now. Returning 4LS customers seem very unhappy with two main things:

• Small rear seat - shockingly, even though this is the largest LS ever, it seems to have less rear seat room then even the LS 460 SWB. A lot of this is subjective in "feeling," but the new roofline seems to really cut into rear seat headroom and it's even worse with the panoramic roof. Allegedly, one of the salesman who is ~6'3" can't even fit in the back seat of the pano roof model without sitting on the right side and having the front seat pushed forward. Many people are saying the rear seat feels comparable to the GS and less so an LS. This is a HUGE selling point for many LS customers and they are unhappy with how small and uncomfortable the car feels inside.
• Unrefined powertrain - reports that the new TT V6 is a little laggy off the line and gets coarse at WOT. Many LS customers are used to that seamless, torquey feel that a NA V8 delivers and are not impressed with the more coarse, vocal nature of the new V6. Allegedly, the V35A-FTS "feels stronger" between 3k and 5k rpms, but feels underpowered lower in the rev range, combined with a transmission that is also laggy and struggling to choose the right gear. Many similar complaints are emerging about the 500h powertrain as well.

On top of it, many of the early builds are coming in around $85-100k, so returning LS 460 buyers are seeing a car that is smaller/less comfortable, less refined and significantly more expensive than the one they bought previously. To quote one lifelong LS customer, "This is not the car I waited ten years for."

This is all very early feedback as the car has only been on sale for about 3 weeks now, but I do think it's concerning. Having worked in Lexus dealerships myself for a few years, the LS customer is a very loyal one and many of them come back to buy the brand new model as soon as it's available. However, that customer is generally older, more set in their ways and knows what they want. It seems that for that demographic, this new LS 500 may not be delivering. Time will tell if a new group of buyers warm up to the LS as older ones may keep their current cars or transfer to another brand.


When we first saw the release for the LS 500 and learned of the 3.5L TT V6, I was excited because the engine had ~50 more lb-ft of torque than the UR V8 in the LC. In a car like this, torque is what creates - or should create - a seamless driving experience. I am beginning to think that with such a dramatic departure for the LS 500, Lexus would have been more prudent to use the UR V8 and release a 471hp/398lb-ft V8 LS 500. That engine is very smooth off the line with linear power delivery and the higher revving nature would have actually been well matched for a car that is chasing Panamera shoppers. It might have also been more appealing to traditional LS shoppers, as crazy as that seems. If the TT V6 suffers from bad turbo lag and gets loud in the process, that's not really appeasing anyone - sportier drivers or those seeing a more serene experience. Did Lexus miss the mark here?

 

[Ian Schmidt]

So on the one hand we have people anonymously trashing the LS and on the other @mikeavelli drove one and was positive about the experience. I'm not sure how to reconcile that, beyond that everyone agrees the rear seat room is down.

Guess I'll set up a test drive for myself soon and find out.

 

[Gecko]

Two things I should add:

• Universally acclaimed interior quality - best ever for a Lexus, better than S Class, A8, etc. Interior seems to be by far the strongest selling point for the new LS.
• Wonderful driving dynamics no matter the model or driving mode. Everyone loves how it drives!

 

[RichieRich]

I'll give my impressions, opinions, and 2 cents. Just as a reference we've owned to date, 6 other Lexus'. 1991 LS400, 1992 SC400, 1994 GS300, 2002 Rx300, 2003 ES 300, 2006 GS430(we still have)

My wife and I drove the F Sport yesterday. Ours is ordered it didn't arrive yet. These will be responses to Gecko's findings from other people at dealerships.

Just from the way they shaped the LS500 tells me they already knew they would lose their LS loyal base(older buyers) with this car. IMO, I don't think they were concerned with that as much as getting new customers/buyers to the Brand.

The rear seat is smaller than the previous model years, yes, but by no means, is it, in any way, too small back there. The salesperson was in the back seat. He was around 5'9", with my wife driving, she's 5'4", He had enough room for a small child to stand between him and the back of the driver's seat. Plenty of room.

Note: My buddy is 6' 2.5" inches tall. He sat in the back seat and had no problems with being comfortable back there. (This was the F Sport with the Panoramic roof) I'm not saying there is as much room as the S560 he owns, but he wasn't uncomfortable back there.

Of course they could have made it more roomy back there, but you would lose that lower coupe(ish) look they were aiming for. Maybe LS owners like to put people in their back seats a lot, I know I didn't much.

I will say this though, my 2002 S500 had loads of room back there, when I sat back there I was very impressed with the amount of room the passengers had. I had the car for 4 years and can probably count how many times I carried around passengers. Great having all that room for them, but defiantly no benefit to me the owner. If I was being chauffeured, maybe I would have a gripe.

The Drive:
The first thing I noticed was how whisper quiet the LS500 was. I had to look at the dash a couple of times to see if the car was still on when we were inside the car talking to each.
I was also impressed while driving around town, it felt just like a V8. If I didn't already know what was under the hood, nothing indicated there wasn't a V8.
No problems at all moving that massively long car around. My 2002 S500 was 203 inches long, this is 206 inches long, but it didn't feel that long at all.

Lastly, I didn't get to ride it on the highway, but I had nice curvy stretches of road, it reached triple digit speeds very impressively I might add, wasn't loud and I was very impressed with the motor. I felt no lag at all, handles beautifully, and it would leave my V8 GS430 for dead in o-60 and quarter mile times. I forgot to mention this was in comfort mode. Didn't try it in Sport Mode. That's probably where the loud engine sounds and Turbo lag feels are coming from as reported by Gecko
My wife drove the same route I did, rode to the same triple digit speeds, needless to say I was impressed from the passenger seat also.

If you want to Spend More money and absolutely need the V8, just wait another year plus and get The LS F.

I personally won't drive my LS500 at the 0-60, or quarter mile speeds people are asking for, that's not why I'm buying this car, (the speed is defiantly there if you need it though) I have my Motorcycle for that.

If I need to drive like that, I will just buy the LC500 Or the LC F when it comes out.

Once again, just my opinions and impressions on the LS500 F Sport.

 

[RichieRich]

Two things I should add:

• Universally acclaimed interior quality - best ever for a Lexus, better than S Class, A8, etc. Interior seems to be by far the strongest selling point for the new LS.
• Wonderful driving dynamics no matter the model or driving mode. Everyone loves how it drives!

I agree 100%.
I Didn't know how much I would like the Circuit red and black interior of the F Sport, I thought it might be too bright, but when I saw it in person, the contrast with the black and the ultra Suede was absolutely gorgeous. So I changed my order from the black on black interior.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Once again, just my opinions and impressions on the LS500 F Sport.

Thanks, appreciate that! I remember now from the press preview that a lot of them said it got a bit un-Lexus-like in the Sport and Sport Plus modes but was fine in Standard. I wonder if a lot of dealers are making the mistake of putting it in Sport for older customers to be terrified

 

[ssun30]

shockingly, even though this is the largest LS ever, it seems to have less rear seat room then even the LS 460 SWB. A lot of this is subjective in "feeling," but the new roofline seems to really cut into rear seat headroom and it's even worse with the panoramic roof. Allegedly, one of the salesman who is ~6'3" can't even fit in the back seat of the pano roof model without sitting on the right side and having the front seat pushed forward. Many people are saying the rear seat feels comparable to the GS and less so an LS. This is a HUGE selling point for many LS customers and they are unhappy with how small and uncomfortable the car feels inside.

That. I've never sat in the rear of the LS460L, but I can tell the LS500h Executive has less rear seat room compared to not just the competition, but also vehicles in a lower class (E-Class L/A6L etc). How are they going to convince LWB-obsessed Chinese buyers that this is a good car to chauffeur VIPs in?

From conversations with my dealer friends, so far the LS and LC could attract buyers mostly because of the look. They are not frustrated by the lack of LWB yet because the overall interior makes the competition look embarrassing. But this is just the first month of sale so they couldn't tell what's wrong and what's missing (no V8 doesn't matter here, we don't get the turbo in the first place). Their opinion is like 'finally we have something new to sell and two real showroom cars' (before the pair launched many dealers were relegated to using the RX450h).

 

[Gecko]

I don't think many of us paid too much attention to the Cadillac CT6 before, but with the 2019 update, I think this car has become a very legitimate competitor to the S Class, 7 Series, A8 and LS. Two optional V8 engines and a new exterior look inspired by the Escala concept. It's pretty impressive.

Discussion and more info: https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/...hp-637lb-ft-ttv8-and-escala-inspiration.4321/

 

[Madi]

I don't think many of us paid too much attention to the Cadillac CT6 before, but with the 2019 update, I think this car has become a very legitimate competitor to the S Class, 7 Series, A8 and LS. Two optional V8 engines and a new exterior look inspired by the Escala concept. It's pretty impressive.

Discussion and more info: https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/...hp-637lb-ft-ttv8-and-escala-inspiration.4321/

This car is in the Mid-size sedan segment, it's not competing in the Full-size sedan segment, the rivals are Lexus GS, Mercedes E-Class, Audi A6, BMW 5-Series, Genesis G80 ....etc

 

[Gecko]

This car is in the Mid-size sedan segment, it's not competing in the Full-size sedan segment, the rivals are Lexus GS, Mercedes E-Class, Audi A6, BMW 5-Series, Genesis G80 ....etc

CT6 is about the same size as S Class, LS and 7er - all are right around 206" or 17 ft long, and offer a good bit more interior space than midsize sedans. It was seen as a "tweener" between midsize and flagship sedans mostly because of price and the fact that it lacked a V8. There's no word on price, but the car now certainly has the engines to be considered a full blown flagship and Cadillac seems intent on positioning it as such.

Similarly, CT5 will be going soon to be the de-facto midsize sedan, so this elevation of the CT6 isn't surprising.

I am sure that the rumors of a Maybach-battling CT7 are dead now, considering the state of the sedan market.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

CT6 is about the same size as S Class, LS and 7er - all are right around 206" or 17 ft long, and offer a good bit more interior space than midsize sedans. It was seen as a "tweener" between midsize and flagship sedans mostly because of price and the fact that it lacked a V8. There's no word on price, but the car now certainly has the engines to be considered a full blown flagship and Cadillac seems intent on positioning it as such.

Similarly, CT5 will be going soon to be the de-facto midsize sedan, so this elevation of the CT6 isn't surprising.

I am sure that the rumors of a Maybach-battling CT7 are dead now, considering the state of the sedan market.

Actually......

http://driving.ca/cadillac/ct6/auto...anning-to-bring-escala-flagship-to-production

Escala isn’t forecast to start assembly until December 2021.