MKV Toyota Supra Master Thread
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A90 GR Supra Super GT Concept leaked
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/a9...on-updated-with-leaked-photo-pg-4.1435/page-4
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/a9...on-updated-with-leaked-photo-pg-4.1435/page-4
Take a look at the new Supra!!! Full vehicle revealed by Toyota Mexico
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/ta...-full-vehicle-revealed-by-toyota-mexico.1493/
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/ta...-full-vehicle-revealed-by-toyota-mexico.1493/
The "Unofficial" Pricing for the US!
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/the-unofficial-pricing-for-the-us.1500/
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/the-unofficial-pricing-for-the-us.1500/
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Take a look at the interior of the 2020 Supra
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/take-a-look-at-the-interior-of-the-2020-supra.1502/
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/take-a-look-at-the-interior-of-the-2020-supra.1502/
BMW underrates their motor. A birdie is saying its actually closer to 370hp at the crank. Another way of looking at it is that you can get a $49,990 base I6 Supra for $705 less than a 4 cyl Z4 @$50,695. And $19,400 less than a Cayman S.
In other news.
Official 2020 Supra Images
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/of...and-theyre-spectacular.1501/page-3#post-32990
Supposing this car is not a Grand Tourism sport coupe, but a hardcore fighter, I believe it's execution is not well thought.
Price should not be a problem really. But just by looking those weight pathetic numbers and then a glimpse at the dashboard, geez! I wouldn't be surprised if tow hook would be standard for camper towing! It was so bad I felt.
It should have been designed with the fighter jet aircraft design mindset.
HVAC system could have been replaced by some icicle cooled cabin system. A manual cooling system wouldn't draw power from the electric system. Remember, this car resembles a fighter jet aircraft.
A cheap earpod would had done the job soo much better than a luxurious sound speaker system.
If I were responsible for such a machine, I would had spent my efforts to build a super lightweight cage. The whole driving experience would had been so much more assuring.
Driver input and mentality would be taking off by feeling protected in a shell. The whole driving experience would had been the epitome of accessible mind blowing performance.
Seriously, a standard revolutionary roll cage would had been magnifying driver potential. Suddenly taking huge risks while driving, would have never been a problem.
We would have evidenced some consistently otherworldly performance and more importantly incapable drivers would be learning from their mistakes much more easily and fast.
It seems like a half effort by Toyota, just to fill the sportscar roster and I don't blame them at all. I believe more and more, they have set their sights on how to survive in the new matrix reality.
Embargo Broken: 2020 Toyota Supra New Photos Are Out, Including First Of Interior
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/em...tos-are-out-including-first-of-interior.1504/
https://www.supramkv.com/threads/em...tos-are-out-including-first-of-interior.1504/
F1 Silver Arrows
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Almost everything is known now with the exception of powertrain specifications, packages, and a lot of other minor things related to the specifications of the car. But yes, this is a single-turbocharged inline-six engine. This is the B58 engine which has one turbo. The S55 (previous gen M3/M4 engine; and note that that this starts with an S and the Supra/Z4 engine a B) has two turbos.
All that we know right now (though not fully clear) is that Toyota changed the turbo, some pumps here and probably some internals as well. As for the block itself, we're not sure they may have made changes but they will ask questions at NAIAS.
We do however have speculation for the GRMN model, we will see a lot more improvements all around the car (which may come in a few years) but even the normal Supra hasn't been released yet, so we're going to have to wait for that first (less than 10 hours
).
Gecko
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Now that we have the final numbers and pricing:
Camaro:
ZL1
$63,295
650 hp
650 lb-ft of torque
3,883 lbs
1SS
$37,995
455 hp
455 lb-ft of torque
3,685 lbs
Mustang:
Shelby GT 350
$59,140
526 hp
476 lb-ft of torque
3,760 lbs
GT
$35,335
460 hp
420 lb-ft of torque
3,520 lbs
Corvette:
Stingray
$55,495
460 hp
465 lb-ft
3,298 lbs
Grand Sport
$65,495
460 hp
465 lb-ft
3,428 lbs
Porsche 718 Cayman
$56,900
300 hp
280 lb-ft of torque
2,944 lbs
BMW M2 Competition:
$58,900
405 hp
406 lb-ft
3,600 lbs
Nissan 370Z:
$29,990
332hp
270 lb-ft
3,232 lbs
Supra:
$50,000
335 hp
365 lb-ft of torque
3,397 lbs
I really wanted to love this Supra, but I am not sure exactly what Toyota was thinking with the positioning for this car. 370Z is old news, but has almost the same specs - except for the torque deficit - for $20k less. Corvette is $5k more and a lot more car. Once all 500 Supra fanboys place their orders, what is the business case for this car?
Someone on SupraMKV just posted: "This car has the specs of a base Camaro, is only available as an automatic, and is priced like a Corvette. Let's call a spade a spade." DAYUMN.
I know the rumor mill isn't Toyota's fault, but so much for the cast iron block, Toyota-dedicated tune, super low curb weight, 380hp tune, etc. This car has come out to be very underwhelming.
Camaro:
ZL1
$63,295
650 hp
650 lb-ft of torque
3,883 lbs
1SS
$37,995
455 hp
455 lb-ft of torque
3,685 lbs
Mustang:
Shelby GT 350
$59,140
526 hp
476 lb-ft of torque
3,760 lbs
GT
$35,335
460 hp
420 lb-ft of torque
3,520 lbs
Corvette:
Stingray
$55,495
460 hp
465 lb-ft
3,298 lbs
Grand Sport
$65,495
460 hp
465 lb-ft
3,428 lbs
Porsche 718 Cayman
$56,900
300 hp
280 lb-ft of torque
2,944 lbs
BMW M2 Competition:
$58,900
405 hp
406 lb-ft
3,600 lbs
Nissan 370Z:
$29,990
332hp
270 lb-ft
3,232 lbs
Supra:
$50,000
335 hp
365 lb-ft of torque
3,397 lbs
I really wanted to love this Supra, but I am not sure exactly what Toyota was thinking with the positioning for this car. 370Z is old news, but has almost the same specs - except for the torque deficit - for $20k less. Corvette is $5k more and a lot more car. Once all 500 Supra fanboys place their orders, what is the business case for this car?
Someone on SupraMKV just posted: "This car has the specs of a base Camaro, is only available as an automatic, and is priced like a Corvette. Let's call a spade a spade." DAYUMN.
I know the rumor mill isn't Toyota's fault, but so much for the cast iron block, Toyota-dedicated tune, super low curb weight, 380hp tune, etc. This car has come out to be very underwhelming.
Gecko
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I realize that making multiple posts in the same thread in a row is kind of like texting, being left on read, and continuing to do it... but...
Now that this is all officially official, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this car for various reasons - I can't make sense of it in any scenario. A decade long project turned into a car launched with decade-old specs and I am scratching my head about how THIS is what came of the much hyped BMW/Toyota partnership. It feels like Toyota was the disposal option for BMW's outdated hardware, but didn't get clearance pricing on what they bought.
We heard about the car being co-developed with input from both brands, and that was stated officially via press releases and news announcements. I'm not talking about rumors. However, I am trying to figure out what part of this Toyota had their hands in, aside from the exterior design of the Supra. The platform seems to be BMW, the engine is absolutely a direct leftover from BMW and it's unchanged, so is the transmission. The infotainment system is 100% BMW and so is much of the interior. Did BMW handover the hardware, and then Toyota just tuned their own suspension and design their own exterior, essentially? If so, that makes more sense if this car is basically a recycling bin for BMW that Toyota thought was an easy badge engineering exercise while ringing in the famed "Supra" glory. It feels like BMW said, "Hey Akio, this next Z4 is happening and we've already got a plan, but let us know if you want in," and Toyota said, "Yeah! Lets call it a Supra!"
I really didn't have a problem with this BMW/Toyota partnership because I was expecting that the final results would reap the benefits of both brands. Many were expecting BMW's performance input with Toyota's massaging of engine tuning and reliability. Time will tell with regard to the latter, but even the former is up for debate at this point. I see Toyota's fingerprints nowhere on the powertrain.
I feel like the Subaru/Toyota partnership delivered a more wholesome product that spoke to both brands' capabilities and thinking.
At a time when TNGA has hit its stride with new platforms and engines, I'm struggling to see how a version of GA-L with the V35A-FTS wouldn't have made a lot more sense for Toyota than this partnership. Such a car could have been jointly developed with the 4th gen IS or 2nd gen RC, preserved the Toyota reputation for reliability, remained an in-house project and also pumped out a lot more power. From the outside, we can all make assumptions about what could have been different or better, or what the business case would be, but...
...It's underpowered.
...It's overpriced.
...It's not really a Toyota, so I don't think you can say reliability is on it's side.
The Z4 getting the more powerful tune even seems like proof of Toyota only getting hand-me-downs without much direct input into the project.
Theoretically, if this car came in at 3,700lbs but was packing the 416/442lb-ft TT V6, that would have seemed more true to Supra heritage than what we got. Toyota was hung up on the car absolutely having to have an inline six, and it seems that may be the fact that ruined it. I would have welcomed a change in philosophy (a V6 instead of I6) in the name of progress instead of an overpriced, underpowered, rebadged BMW for the sake of nostalgia.
Now that this is all officially official, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this car for various reasons - I can't make sense of it in any scenario. A decade long project turned into a car launched with decade-old specs and I am scratching my head about how THIS is what came of the much hyped BMW/Toyota partnership. It feels like Toyota was the disposal option for BMW's outdated hardware, but didn't get clearance pricing on what they bought.
We heard about the car being co-developed with input from both brands, and that was stated officially via press releases and news announcements. I'm not talking about rumors. However, I am trying to figure out what part of this Toyota had their hands in, aside from the exterior design of the Supra. The platform seems to be BMW, the engine is absolutely a direct leftover from BMW and it's unchanged, so is the transmission. The infotainment system is 100% BMW and so is much of the interior. Did BMW handover the hardware, and then Toyota just tuned their own suspension and design their own exterior, essentially? If so, that makes more sense if this car is basically a recycling bin for BMW that Toyota thought was an easy badge engineering exercise while ringing in the famed "Supra" glory. It feels like BMW said, "Hey Akio, this next Z4 is happening and we've already got a plan, but let us know if you want in," and Toyota said, "Yeah! Lets call it a Supra!"
I really didn't have a problem with this BMW/Toyota partnership because I was expecting that the final results would reap the benefits of both brands. Many were expecting BMW's performance input with Toyota's massaging of engine tuning and reliability. Time will tell with regard to the latter, but even the former is up for debate at this point. I see Toyota's fingerprints nowhere on the powertrain.
I feel like the Subaru/Toyota partnership delivered a more wholesome product that spoke to both brands' capabilities and thinking.
At a time when TNGA has hit its stride with new platforms and engines, I'm struggling to see how a version of GA-L with the V35A-FTS wouldn't have made a lot more sense for Toyota than this partnership. Such a car could have been jointly developed with the 4th gen IS or 2nd gen RC, preserved the Toyota reputation for reliability, remained an in-house project and also pumped out a lot more power. From the outside, we can all make assumptions about what could have been different or better, or what the business case would be, but...
...It's underpowered.
...It's overpriced.
...It's not really a Toyota, so I don't think you can say reliability is on it's side.
The Z4 getting the more powerful tune even seems like proof of Toyota only getting hand-me-downs without much direct input into the project.
Theoretically, if this car came in at 3,700lbs but was packing the 416/442lb-ft TT V6, that would have seemed more true to Supra heritage than what we got. Toyota was hung up on the car absolutely having to have an inline six, and it seems that may be the fact that ruined it. I would have welcomed a change in philosophy (a V6 instead of I6) in the name of progress instead of an overpriced, underpowered, rebadged BMW for the sake of nostalgia.
The power is underrated and still a much better buy than the base "$57k" Cayman. Not to mention you get an I6 vs a 4 banger.
Also faster than the $65k RC-F.
0-60
US Z4: 3.9 sec
M2 competition: 4.0 sec
Supra: 4.1 sec
RC-F: 4.4 sec
Cayman: 5.1 sec
370z: 5.2 sec
Also faster than the $65k RC-F.
0-60
US Z4: 3.9 sec
M2 competition: 4.0 sec
Supra: 4.1 sec
RC-F: 4.4 sec
Cayman: 5.1 sec
370z: 5.2 sec
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