16th Generation Toyota Crown (Sedan, Cross, Sport, Estate/Signia)

What do you think it is?

  • Lexus GS

    Votes: 4 10.0%
  • Toyota Crown

    Votes: 32 80.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 10.0%

  • Total voters
    40

qtb007

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That 2 gr is a venerable engine the a25 not so much
The 2GR has an extra liter of displacement. It starts off with a major head start from a performance perspective.

That said, the A25 with hybrid does 0-60 in 7.3 seconds* versus the 295hp 2GR (non-hybrid) doing 6.7 seconds in the Highlander. If you dive into fuelly, the V6 Highlander owners were typically between 21 and 23 mpg. The A25 owners get over 30mpg real world. That is an absolutely massive bump in efficiency for a rather small hit in performance.

I'm not going to pretend to know what Crown sedan owners value, but I've been to Japan enough times to know that fuel efficiency matters and high performance engines would largely be wasted in a car like the Crown in Japan. They don't have thousands of miles of open interstate where those big, smooth engines just eat up the miles. There's tons of traffic, tons of toll roads, and really expensive fuel. The A25 hybrid probably makes a ton of sense in a Japan market Crown sedan.

* From car and driver instrumented tests
 

ssun30

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I'm not going to pretend to know what Crown sedan owners value, but I've been to Japan enough times to know that fuel efficiency matters and high performance engines would largely be wasted in a car like the Crown in Japan. They don't have thousands of miles of open interstate where those big, smooth engines just eat up the miles. There's tons of traffic, tons of toll roads, and really expensive fuel. The A25 hybrid probably makes a ton of sense in a Japan market Crown sedan.
And the new A25 hybrid is 10% less efficient than last gen and 25% less efficient than the Crown crossover's hybrid system. What's worse is it gets only 14.4km/L in city when the other two gets over 20. So even as an urban car it still failed.

Usually when you add a multistage device to a PS hybrid you get both better fuel efficiency and acceleration because you get a wider ratio spread. The old 3.5 multistage was actually pretty good on the Crown (but not on the LS). This new 2.5 multistage at least on paper is disappointing.
 
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Sulu

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And the new A25 hybrid is 10% less efficient than last gen and 25% less efficient than the Crown crossover's hybrid system. What's worse is it gets only 14.4km/L in city when the other two gets over 20. So even as an urban car it still failed.

Usually when you add a multistage device to a PS hybrid you get both better fuel efficiency and acceleration because you get a wider ratio spread. The old 3.5 multistage was actually pretty good on the Crown (but not on the LS). This new 2.5 multistage at least on paper is disappointing.
That is because the new Crown sedan is a larger (longer, wider, taller, heavier) car than the previous Crown but with essentially the same powertrain. That same engine is pulling greater mass and any efficiency gained from the different (multistage) transmission is not able to make up for that fact that the new is fatter than the old one.
 

ssun30

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That is because the new Crown sedan is a larger (longer, wider, taller, heavier) car than the previous Crown but with essentially the same powertrain. That same engine is pulling greater mass and any efficiency gained from the different (multistage) transmission is not able to make up for that fact that the new is fatter than the old one.
It uses 50% more fuel than the old one in urban cycle.

It's heavy but it's not a pickup truck.
 

qtb007

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It uses 50% more fuel than the old one in urban cycle.

It's heavy but it's not a pickup truck.
50% more doesn’t pass the sniff test. Either there has been incorrect data shared, the standard changed, something. There’s no way in the real world that it is using 50% more fuel back to back against the old car.
 

Ali Manai

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The 2GR has an extra liter of displacement. It starts off with a major head start from a performance perspective.

That said, the A25 with hybrid does 0-60 in 7.3 seconds* versus the 295hp 2GR (non-hybrid) doing 6.7 seconds in the Highlander. If you dive into fuelly, the V6 Highlander owners were typically between 21 and 23 mpg. The A25 owners get over 30mpg real world. That is an absolutely massive bump in efficiency for a rather small hit in performance.

I'm not going to pretend to know what Crown sedan owners value, but I've been to Japan enough times to know that fuel efficiency matters and high performance engines would largely be wasted in a car like the Crown in Japan. They don't have thousands of miles of open interstate where those big, smooth engines just eat up the miles. There's tons of traffic, tons of toll roads, and really expensive fuel. The A25 hybrid probably makes a ton of sense in a Japan market Crown sedan.

* From car and driver instrumented tests
The japanese have always preferred the 2.5l displacement when it was available with 2.5, 3.0 & 3.5 v6 the most sold were 2.5 and always have been
 

Ali Manai

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o
50% more doesn’t pass the sniff test. Either there has been incorrect data shared, the standard changed, something. There’s no way in the real world that it is using 50% more fuel back to back against the old car.
Or simply they have tuned it so engine is always on for higher performance specially if they claim peak system output is available at 43kph compared to 140kph in previous gen keeping in mind if you weren't pushing the previous gen it was in electric mode uptil 70 kph if it had enough battery and wngine would only function as a generator to keep battery at a certain threshold
 

NomadDan

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I’m a bit surprised to see the Crown Estate offered in the US. It was the last model of the Crown lineup that expected to see here. The proportions remind me of the 1st gen Venza. I think it has a space in the current market, but I don’t know if it would ever be a massive success. If Toyota can market it to the Subaru Outback crowd, it could do well.

As far as drivetrain goes, my guess is 2.5 hybrid as the sole option. Maybe a plug-in 2.5 hybrid at some point.

Are they really just calling it the Crown SUV? They’ve got to do better than that. Even calling it the Estate is better.
 
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I’m a bit surprised to see the Crown Estate offered in the US. It was the last model of the Crown lineup that expected to see here. The proportions remind me of the 1st gen Venza. I think it has a space in the current market, but I don’t know if it would ever be a massive success. If Toyota can market it to the Subaru Outback crowd, it could do well.

As far as drivetrain goes, my guess is 2.5 hybrid as the sole option. Maybe a plug-in 2.5 hybrid at some point.

Are they really just calling it the Crown SUV? They’ve got to do better than that. Even calling it the Estate is better.

They should give it the Hybrid MAX powertrain.
 

Gecko

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Interested to see how they position this alongside the Highlander and Grand Highlander.
 

Sulu

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I suspect that the Crown Estate / SUV will -- like the Venza -- be the upmarket model. Here in North America, the range of crossover SUVs, starting from the bottom would be: Corolla Cross, RAV4, Venza, Highlander, Crown SUV, Grand Highlander.
 

bogglo

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I still feel like the Venza will get replaced by the estate. I also feel like if the Mirai continue to be sold in NA it makes sense to bring the Crown sedan to NA to compliment it
 

NomadDan

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Here’s a crazy thought: What if the Crown Estate is sold in North America as the Camry Cross? Both the Crown Estate and Camry are going to be revealed in NA at the same time. The teaser image showed the letter “C” on the rear, which I think we all assumed was for “Crown”, but what if it is actually “Camry”?

I think calling it the Camry Cross would be more marketable.

Then the Crown Sport can be sold as the 3rd gen Venza.