The Official "I'm Struggling with Lexus" Thread

Sulu

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This discussion thread (perhaps by design) has become an echo chamber. Those members who are very critical of the brand come here to hear from those with a similar opinion; thus it is not a true discussion thread because there is no discussion, merely echoes.

And as the critics' echo chamber, it is becoming ever more similar to that *other* Lexus internet forum, the one that is very negative, very cynical and ignorant, in a "grass is always greener on the other side" fashion. I gave up visiting that other forum because it is so negative; there is no longer any news or information, no discussion, just extreme negativity.

Is this what internet forums are becoming? I thought this forum was more neutral but I guess I was wrong.
 

James

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This discussion thread (perhaps by design) has become an echo chamber. Those members who are very critical of the brand come here to hear from those with a similar opinion; thus it is not a true discussion thread because there is no discussion, merely echoes.

And as the critics' echo chamber, it is becoming ever more similar to that *other* Lexus internet forum, the one that is very negative, very cynical and ignorant, in a "grass is always greener on the other side" fashion. I gave up visiting that other forum because it is so negative; there is no longer any news or information, no discussion, just extreme negativity.

Is this what internet forums are becoming? I thought this forum was more neutral but I guess I was wrong.
@Sulu i understand I do. I was on your side not three months ago pretty much telling @Gecko that his negative attitude toward Lexus (@Gecko not shooting you down here just trying to make a point) was wrong and Lexus would pull through. But seriously every decision they have made this year at least is wrong. Lack of V8. No LF1 yet. No IS interior updates. I leased my GS two years ago thinking there would be so many options for me in my next car. Literally there is nothing on the Lexus lineup that I want right now? There are no engine varieties, or any updated interiors in there entire SUV lineup! How are we in the middle of the SUV craze and there interiors are so outdated it’s not even funny. I don’t know how closely you’ve read this particular thread but we are not on here dissing on Lexus because we are German lovers or something. We are pissed at Lexus for backing us into this corner of staying loyal to a company that doesn’t even seem like they are trying or leave. I’ve said this repeatedly I have loved Lexus since like 05 and what they are doing is breaking my heart but I will not piss away a ton of money to a company that isn’t improving and giving us exciting products and is hoping we stay on loyalty and reliability (which is still the best but not the leaps and bounds it once was),
 

Rydo

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@Sulu I hear what you are saying, but this thread means the negativity can hopefully be pulled from the other threads. There is, of course, a remedy for all this negativity - someone from Lexus reads these threads and starts to systematically address them.

Most of what we ask for is not pie-in-the-sky nonsense. I don’t feel it unreasonable to want the new interior design language in more SUVs than the UX. Equally, how Lexus haven’t managed to enter the super luxury SUV market yet is astounding for the company that likes to boast they developed the segment.
 

mikeavelli

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For the first time in my life I would not buy a Lexus if I was in the market for a new car today. I have till next November till my lease is up. Lexus has till then to have a shot but unless there is a screaming deal on of their cars compared to competitors I will be out. Never thought I’d say that but it’s true.
Btw if I could yell at something at their HQ I would! Don’t think they’d take my call...

If they drop the V-8 forever I would at least hope for a class leading electric LS. Something that reestablishes the LS as a force in its class and the lead vehicle for Lexus. At least as an option.

The hybrid I don’t think anyone knows is an option. A shame cause it gets about 800 miles to the tank!
 

Gecko

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This discussion thread (perhaps by design) has become an echo chamber. Those members who are very critical of the brand come here to hear from those with a similar opinion; thus it is not a true discussion thread because there is no discussion, merely echoes.

And as the critics' echo chamber, it is becoming ever more similar to that *other* Lexus internet forum, the one that is very negative, very cynical and ignorant, in a "grass is always greener on the other side" fashion. I gave up visiting that other forum because it is so negative; there is no longer any news or information, no discussion, just extreme negativity.

Is this what internet forums are becoming? I thought this forum was more neutral but I guess I was wrong.

Because this thread has similar opinions and sentiments does not mean it isn’t a discussion - everybody comes here from a different place, owns and has driven different vehicles, and most are holding their breath for something different: electric, new SUVs, V8s, more F, etc. We are all just looking for Lexus to be better.

Ironically, your post feels like the least constructive one so far as it comes across as complaining about this forum and other members instead of sharing your view on the brand. Perhaps you could share some insight on how you are looking at Lexus, and why? I think we are all pretty open to new and different perspectives and would love some good news...
 

ssun30

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Gecko is right, it seems everyone is just complaining mindlessly and repeat each other. Actually many of us complain about very different things. It's just the 'I want V8' crowd seems louder because this is mostly a US-based forum and it's perfectly natural people from different places have different priorities.

Of course we could make an 'I'm struggling with BBA' thread. The grass is not always greener on the other side. But one can always learn from their neighbors how to (and not to) take care of their lawn. In fact most people here own a Lexus but not BBA because we don't trust these brands. We hear so many saying 'Lexus is crap I'm jumping ship' but it's actually a very hard decision to make.
 

GoHuskers

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I usually buy a new lexus every 3 years, owned 7 myself so far. Our families currently have 11 or 12 Lexus vehicles and since 2006 we collectively have 19 or 20 lexus vehicles. So. I DO love the brand.

However, I will not buy any new lexus with the current line up. I will have to wait until 2023 or after. This is MY only way to punish Lexus for not offering anything New.
 

Sulu

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If the rumour of the cancellation of future V8 engines is true, it is just an admission that there is no longer a demand for large, V8 engines, especially coming from Japanese automakers. There is certainly no demand in Japan, no demand in China, no demand in East and South Asia, and very little demand in North America, all major markets for Lexus.

The only area where there is still a demand for the V8 is Europe but that is being met by the European automakers; no other automakers are able to sell V8-engined vehicles in Europe.

Enthusiasts in this internet forum (largely in the USA) want a Japanese-German hybrid, a German luxury sports sedan with a roaring V8 that possesses insane horsepower levels and accelerates lightning-quick, but is built with Japanese attention to detail and built to Japanese levels of reliability. Yet no other luxury vehicle buyer is looking for this type of vehicle. So the insane-horsepower-roaring-V8 luxury sports sedan is a infinitesimally-small niche that most automakers can no longer afford to compete in; the European automakers can because they still have a demand for these vehicles in their home market and the numbers they export to North America are just incremental numbers. With no demand for V8 sedans in its home (and other large markets), the Japanese (and soon the Korean automakers and even the American automakers also, I believe), can no longer afford to produce V8-powered sedans.

Enthusiasts have refused to accept this business decision. Enthusiasts are not a large enough group of buyers to demand what they want and sway this business decision.
 

super51fan

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If the rumour of the cancellation of future V8 engines is true, it is just an admission that there is no longer a demand for large, V8 engines, especially coming from Japanese automakers. There is certainly no demand in Japan, no demand in China, no demand in East and South Asia, and very little demand in North America, all major markets for Lexus.

The only area where there is still a demand for the V8 is Europe but that is being met by the European automakers; no other automakers are able to sell V8-engined vehicles in Europe.

Enthusiasts in this internet forum (largely in the USA) want a Japanese-German hybrid, a German luxury sports sedan with a roaring V8 that possesses insane horsepower levels and accelerates lightning-quick, but is built with Japanese attention to detail and built to Japanese levels of reliability. Yet no other luxury vehicle buyer is looking for this type of vehicle. So the insane-horsepower-roaring-V8 luxury sports sedan is a infinitesimally-small niche that most automakers can no longer afford to compete in; the European automakers can because they still have a demand for these vehicles in their home market and the numbers they export to North America are just incremental numbers. With no demand for V8 sedans in its home (and other large markets), the Japanese (and soon the Korean automakers and even the American automakers also, I believe), can no longer afford to produce V8-powered sedans.

Enthusiasts have refused to accept this business decision. Enthusiasts are not a large enough group of buyers to demand what they want and sway this business decision.

This isn’t enthusiasts refusing to accept anything, it’s enthusiast’s disappointment in Lexus refusing to stay competitive. Thinking about it objectively, I still stand my ground that they are making terrible decisions with Lexus. Nothing to do with being an enthusiast.

People don’t want Toyota V8s or even V6s because they are 10-15 years out of date. The only modern engine (V35a) they have is in the wrong car, which should have a V8 and is why it isn’t selling well.

I don’t want a fast car, I just want something that gives me a little “whoosh” on on-ramps and can navigate a round-a-bout. I don’t think that is a lot to ask for.
 

Ian Schmidt

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Gecko is right, it seems everyone is just complaining mindlessly and repeat each other. Actually many of us complain about very different things. It's just the 'I want V8' crowd seems louder because this is mostly a US-based forum and it's perfectly natural people from different places have different priorities.

I'm US-based but I'm realistic. There's no point to introducing a new V8 now. The Germans have ceased development on new large engines, because they can see what's coming. So has Hyundai/Genesis. If the fabled TTV8 had come out 3 or 4 years ago that'd be one thing, but it would be dumb to introduce it now (realistically, next year at this point) due to the regulatory environment. Let's just get those solid-state batteries going beyond the press release stage and be done with it.
 

Gecko

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If the rumour of the cancellation of future V8 engines is true, it is just an admission that there is no longer a demand for large, V8 engines, especially coming from Japanese automakers. There is certainly no demand in Japan, no demand in China, no demand in East and South Asia, and very little demand in North America, all major markets for Lexus.

The only area where there is still a demand for the V8 is Europe but that is being met by the European automakers; no other automakers are able to sell V8-engined vehicles in Europe.

Enthusiasts in this internet forum (largely in the USA) want a Japanese-German hybrid, a German luxury sports sedan with a roaring V8 that possesses insane horsepower levels and accelerates lightning-quick, but is built with Japanese attention to detail and built to Japanese levels of reliability. Yet no other luxury vehicle buyer is looking for this type of vehicle. So the insane-horsepower-roaring-V8 luxury sports sedan is a infinitesimally-small niche that most automakers can no longer afford to compete in; the European automakers can because they still have a demand for these vehicles in their home market and the numbers they export to North America are just incremental numbers. With no demand for V8 sedans in its home (and other large markets), the Japanese (and soon the Korean automakers and even the American automakers also, I believe), can no longer afford to produce V8-powered sedans.

Enthusiasts have refused to accept this business decision. Enthusiasts are not a large enough group of buyers to demand what they want and sway this business decision.

I see your point and agree with much of your sentiment, but you have to ask yourself at what point the demand for V8 Lexus models fell by the wayside. For twenty years, Lexus built some of the most desirable and class leading V8s in the industry. The GS 400 was once the fastest sedan in the world. LS 400 and LS 430 were some of the fastest and most fuel efficient V8s in their segments, same for the SC430. Even in 2007, the LS 460 rivaled the S550 with horsepower and performance, but in a more efficient package. The IS F was just as good or better than the M3, C63 and RS4, and is still one of the most desirable performance vehicles you can find in the aftermarket commanding prices of $30k or more, even ten years later.

But around 2010, all of that changed and Lexus gave up, both with higher performance engines and new expanding segments. As Lexus' V8s have fallen stale, people shopping for those cars have gone elsewhere for Mercedes, BMW, Audi, AMG, RS, M, PHEVs, EVs, four door coupes, four door coupe SUVs and much more. As powertrain technology has advanced, I think the case for a V8 has gotten smaller (so I agree with you there), but a few months ago, Lexus stated that their vehicles over $90k would be V8s. Real world, loyal LS buyers haven't been buying the LS 500 because it doesn't have one. Lexus showed the LC F to dealers two years ago, said the car would launch soon, and then it miraculously got pushed back and then cancelled. Now V8s cancelled.

The bigger problem here isn't just about no V8s, it's more that there's nothing to make up for them. The disappointment would be significantly less if we had higher performance hybrids, which would be an amazing competitive advantage for Lexus, or electric vehicles. So it's not that we don't just have new V8s, it's that we don't have any sort of "Lexus performance" in any form - after the F program was launched and hyped just about a decade ago, LC F teasers, comments from Lexus execs about new turbo V8s, the list goes on.

Lexus hasn't kept up with their own legacy of best-in-class V8s, nor have they kept up at all with similar competitors (BMW, Mercedes), electric competitors (Tesla) or high performance hybrids (Porsche). So what are we supposed to feel good about right now, aside from the LC?
 

Gecko

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For whatever it might be worth, as much as I love V8s, the holy grail Lexus motor to me (in theory) is V35A-FTS + next gen hybrid, as will debut in the Tundra next year.

Hybrid = V8-like low speed smoothness and torque, plus great MPG
V35A = great thrust for the upper end and passing power
Combined = better than a V8 with MPG of a V6, hybrid offsets some of the things I dislike about the V35A-FTS

I think the step past that is V35A-FTS "Prime" with plugin battery, hybrid system and gas engine, I assume a bit over 500hp.

V35A-FTS "500": 416hp, 442lb-ft
V35A-FTS + hybrid "600h": 475hp, 530lb-ft
V35A-FTS + Prime "650h+": 550hp, 600lb-ft

No need for a V8 at that point, but alas, I am sick of thinking about what Lexus could or should do.
 

Levi

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The main issue of Lexus is that most cars are old or uncompetitive. Their success is mostly because of TMC's unmatched brand loyalty, not because the products are that great. On the other hand the products do what they a supposed to do, and well.
 

mikeavelli

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For whatever it might be worth, as much as I love V8s, the holy grail Lexus motor to me (in theory) is V35A-FTS + next gen hybrid, as will debut in the Tundra next year.

Hybrid = V8-like low speed smoothness and torque, plus great MPG
V35A = great thrust for the upper end and passing power
Combined = better than a V8 with MPG of a V6, hybrid offsets some of the things I dislike about the V35A-FTS

I think the step past that is V35A-FTS "Prime" with plugin battery, hybrid system and gas engine, I assume a bit over 500hp.

V35A-FTS "500": 416hp, 442lb-ft
V35A-FTS + hybrid "600h": 475hp, 530lb-ft
V35A-FTS + Prime "650h+": 550hp, 600lb-ft

No need for a V8 at that point, but alas, I am sick of thinking about what Lexus could or should do.

I hope there are new hybrids coming and maybe V-8 alternatives. But for me personally and a ton of people in this market, we do desire a V-8.

The original point of the 2007 GS 450h was to showcase a hybrid could outperform a V-8 with better MPG. At the time the car legit did that. The 600h L came and also showcased a higher hp LS with better MPG than a V-12.

Since that time, the hybrids improved with the now discontinued GS 450h and current RX 450h but they are nowhere near current V-8 power. We now have the LS 500h which took a different path than the 600h, it is solely about more MPG and not about power. We have a LC 500h as well.

The Germans have applied mild and normal hybrids to their portfolios but didn't discontinue V-8s at all. Porsche will have a 700hp or so turbo hybrid in the Panamera.
 

mikeavelli

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Underwhelmed. Loved Lexus back in 2007. Now Genesis and Acura are taking its spot. Omg that new Gv80 and MDX are gonna rob RX customers. I'm not surprised. Slow at innovating the Lexus lineup and no updates to engines 😒

No they won’t. A few people but that is all. Genesis still has no dealer network. ACuRa has resigned itself to premium.

Besides any SUV sells. Lexus will be fine.
 

Gecko

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Genesis gonna take on nx with new gv70 and if anything like the gv80 it'll spell end of Lexus. 😂

I know you know your comments are bit outrageous, but as old and outdated as Lexus is right now, the dominance of their SUV lineup is not deniable. Genesis has no network and people still barely know what it is... name recognition is big part of the luxury car game. Will GV70 and GV80 steal some shoppers who are curious? Yes. With what we know so far, are both superior to the NX and RX? Yes, but ask:
Buick
Cadillac
Acura
Infiniti
BMW
Mercedes
Lincoln
Volvo
Jaguar
Audi
... how it went for them trying to take down the RX. Not saying Lexus is infallible, but Genesis is not going to come out of left field and take down two of the most dominant CUVs in the luxury market anytime soon, sorry to tell you.
 

Will1991

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I’m no longer struggling with Lexus, did a test drive today, should place an order this weekend:

A39-E2868-F04-E-4-EEF-B624-ADC5-C9-E56192.jpg



Maybe will try to get a Lexus again in the future.
 

Gecko

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LOL. Genesis is coming in hard. I don't recall Lexus having the experience center like genesis.

Bmw has the welt. Lexus also created f performance but cancelled isf and gsf. Rcf is left. Since genesis recruited bmw m boss and other luxury European executives don't be surprised if they open up room for customizable vehicles like bmw individual.

I loved Lexus when they showed off a hybrid v8, first 8 speed and isf. Back in 2008. Now in 2020 that isn't impressive. Hybrids are no longer needed and electric is the way.

Genesis eG80, and the new hyundai electric platform will spawn many vehicles.

I saw news of the 2021 is with 15 yr old engines. How does a large company like Toyota not give new engines when others like BMW or even Acura can do it. I know it's smooth and reliable but fuel economy is behind. If Lexus is really pursuit of perfection, change is good not sticking with the same thing and letting others perfect their own products.

I'm lost for words and even Toyota needs to address a 15 yr old tundra design. My God. Do they ever do their homework. Mike Sweers claims to be the first with dohc v8 but now look at the market. Trucks are diesel and soon electric. New diesels too. Sweers is a bit of a marketing guy more than he is an engineer. Probably doesn't do much as one based on the tundra, tacoma being so old.

I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but there is enthusiast disappointment, and then there is reality. The disappointment with many of Lexus' decisions is very real, but it takes a lot longer for that to translate into reality for every day shoppers who generally don't even know if their car is RWD, AWD or FWD, or has a turbo, no turbo, I4 or V6, let alone who Genesis is. Lexus has that going for them. If Lexus doesn't start hitting some home runs with the next gen NX, RX and beyond, they will be in a much worse place... but they are still riding the coat tails of their own legacy, and it's going to be a little while before that runs out. In the meantime, Genesis has a lot of work to do.
 

James

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I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but there is enthusiast disappointment, and then there is reality. The disappointment with many of Lexus' decisions is very real, but it takes a lot longer for that to translate into reality for every day shoppers who generally don't even know if their car is RWD, AWD or FWD, or has a turbo, no turbo, I4 or V6, let alone who Genesis is. Lexus has that going for them. If Lexus doesn't start hitting some home runs with the next gen NX, RX and beyond, they will be in a much worse place... but they are still riding the coat tails of their own legacy, and it's going to be a little while before that runs out. In the meantime, Genesis has a lot of work to do.
I agree with you especially about the RX. That thing just sells no matter what. But still where the hell is any news on LX or LF1? I mean it's almost November and aren't these suppose to come out in 2021...
 
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RX and ES will keep selling because they're in their own class. They offer squishy rides with midsize space for the price of a compact, and with no real effort put into performance. Nobody, besides maybe Buick, is competing directly with them. If Lexus were to jack the price of the RX up to the X5, and make it a true RWD-based class competitor with 400 HP and the works, would it still outsell an X5? I wouldn't bet on it.

I have to hand it to Acura for their willingness to take the MDX upmarket into the big boys league with the X5. Offering a turbo V6 and proper double wishbone front suspension and aluminum architecture, when the RX still uses struts and sits on a last-gen Camry platform. No idea if the MDX will be successful, but it demonstrates that the brand is not resting on its laurels and willing to take the risk that Lexus never will with the RX.

Lexus can keep selling RX's and ES's and NX's and pretend that they're somehow competitive with BMW and Mercedes in sales numbers, but spend too much time selling cheaper products for the sake of volume, and the brand ceases to be a luxury one. Acura learned that. Hyundai is learning that with Genesis. Infiniti and Cadillac didn't, and look at where they are now. For the sake of Lexus, I hope they learn it too, before the public perception finally catches up with their current crop of product.