The Future of the IS Thread

[internalaudit]

I definitely could see Toyota doing it in North America, I do not believe the people fully understand how much sedans are declining. The new sedans by the Genesis brand will not do a very well, and then you’ll see how Toyota made the right decision to put all their efforts into the ES model

This is a nice read on SUVs:

Best-Handling SUVs and Crossovers

SUVs have conquered America’s roads and driveways, but folks still want to enjoy the thrill of driving. Here are SUVs that handle nearly as well as sedans.

www.motortrend.com

 

[LexsCTJill]

The G70 is RWD-biased and are getting recognitions from the press.

For sure. But the G70 is going nowhere long term. It only sells what it sells because it is cheaper than everything else, despite offering a good performance.

 

[LexsCTJill]

This is a nice read on SUVs:

Best-Handling SUVs and Crossovers

SUVs have conquered America’s roads and driveways, but folks still want to enjoy the thrill of driving. Here are SUVs that handle nearly as well as sedans.

www.motortrend.com

thanks. I just wish MT would call them crossovers and not SUVs. 💁‍♀️

 

[spwolf]

What if there is indeed a surplus of unused 2UR-GSE engines and they want to get rid of them quickly? Currently the engine is used in only three low volume models, and even these underperform sales expectations. They originally expected 4000 LC500s a year, but only sells 30% of that, so I think the engine line is underutilized and possibly losing money.

If they make IS500, it woud be made for nice PR reasons, not because engine in stockpile... with JIT production, Toyota does not have engine stockpile, just like with GS, they simply lowered production.

 

[spwolf]

Yea, I get that part, but what I don't understand is why you would put in such a powerful engine without other performance gear. Might as well just give it a TVD, launch control and all the other F stuff to make it an IS F.

I am sure you understand there are 400hp sedans from other brands that are not F/M/S/AMG... of course it would get better brakes, suspension... but it would not be rock hard, more like a difference between IS250 and IS350.

 

[LexsCTJill]

I would like to know the case evidence where Toyota has put an aged engine, into a model that is in its 7th year? 3.5tt might just happen, but NO WAY the 5.0 V8... this would be the equivalent of Toyota putting the GX4.6 in the current 4Runner at this late in the 4Runner models run..makes no sense.

 

[Levi]

I like the idea of the engine in the IS, but it would likely need to be slightly detuned to just under 400 hp, so it doesn't seem like youre getting the LS engine for cheaper. The number would also need to be lower than 500, so the "hierarchy" stays intact. I like how IS 400 sounds.

No need detuned. It is not like some crazy power. LS will also likely get something above the LS 500, like LS 600(h)(+).

 

[Levi]

This is a nice read on SUVs:

Best-Handling SUVs and Crossovers

SUVs have conquered America’s roads and driveways, but folks still want to enjoy the thrill of driving. Here are SUVs that handle nearly as well as sedans.

www.motortrend.com

If they feel so good it is because they are so artificial. Unplug all the electronics and their mask will fall off. Also, these types of cars are given all possible advantages, which a not given to sedans. Now with BMW M going AWD even for M5/M3, you clearly see how much better they are than X3M/X5M.

Want something practical (spacey) but fast? Get this Hyundai iMax N!

 

[internalaudit]

For sure. But the G70 is going nowhere long term. It only sells what it sells because it is cheaper than everything else, despite offering a good performance.

For many of us, we still remember the Hyundai Pony and whatever Hyundai's we had in the 80's and 90's haha.

Also the Genesis branding undercuts German but not Japanese. If they offer below Acura, then they will be successful.

I am afraid with BEVs, there will be even more reasons to go for a CUV.

 

[LexsCTJill]

For many of us, we still remember the Hyundai Pony and whatever Hyundai's we had in the 80's and 90's haha.

Also the Genesis branding undercuts German but not Japanese. If they offer below Acura, then they will be successful.

I am afraid with BEVs, there will be even more reasons to go for a CUV.

A Lexus IS starts $3000 more than a G70

 

[internalaudit]

A Lexus IS starts $3000 more than a G70

No wonder the 3IS is no longer selling briskly.

What about Acura, Precision something lol.

And about Korean financing and lease rates?

Most really boil down to monthly lease rates. That's what Americans seem to prioritize.

 

[Levi]

No wonder the 3IS is no longer selling briskly.

What about Acura, Precision something lol.

And about Korean financing and lease rates?

Most really boil down to monthly lease rates. That's what Americans seem to prioritize.

There are people ready to lease Lexus', but there are better deals elsewhere, so they get the other thing. However, we don't know the long term dirty secrets of leases. TMC might know something, while others just hope for the best until it lasts (see Dieselgate).

 

[LexsCTJill]

No wonder the 3IS is no longer selling briskly.

What about Acura, Precision something lol.

And about Korean financing and lease rates?

Most really boil down to monthly lease rates. That's what Americans seem to prioritize.

I don't really pay much attention to the lease or finance rates. I don't which brand is higher vs lower. But low lease rates, and low finance rates are indicative of a model that is hard to move. Most people would not pay more for a Genesis over a Lexus.
A Genesis G70 is a nice car😍 So is a Lexus IS I do like both of them.

 

[internalaudit]

I don't really pay much attention to the lease or finance rates. I don't which brand is higher vs lower. But low lease rates, and low finance rates are indicative of a model that is hard to move. Most people would not pay more for a Genesis over a Lexus.
A Genesis G70 is a nice car😍 So is a Lexus IS I do like both of them.

I would consider a used Lexus 3IS (2017+) but not a new one, and only if any of my cars get into a state of disrepair.

Also, I find the dashboard design of the UX to be nicer/simpler. I don't fancy those analog clocks either, not even on Porsches.

Genesis has to redo its. interior design. I think it has begun with the G80 or G90 refresh I don't dig them, not really sure why. Maybe it looks busy The logo itself is horrendous and I am not a brand snob.

 

[LexsCTJill]

Also, I find the dashboard design of the UX to be nicer/simpler. I don't fancy those analog clocks either, not even on Porsches.

I do like the UX design. Never really been a fan of analog clocks.

 

[Will1991]

Leasing can solve a immediate problem and create an even bigger one some years after... TMC might choose to do it this way and they manage to be one of the most profitable car manufacturers... In Portugal some brands are now officially here because some private importers went bankrupt due to poor leasing and buy outs...

As to the Lexus Analog clock, I really dig it to be honest, gives a Lexus interior a classical touch in a dashboard with forward thinking design. I find a digital clock to be much more difficult to execute and keep it from seem dated.

 

[meth.ix]

Can somebody enlighten me why some on this forum insist the V35A-FTS needs to be detuned for the IS? There is no cost benefit for detuning the engine. And the current 310kW version is already "detuned" compared to its full potential. Its potential competitors (M340i S4 and C43AMG) do not use detuned engines. I am very, very confused everytime I see this.

If I'm being honest, I don't think the IS deserves less power, but something about having the same engine as the LS just doesn't feel right personally.

I am sure you understand there are 400hp sedans from other brands that are not F/M/S/AMG... of course it would get better brakes, suspension... but it would not be rock hard, more like a difference between IS250 and IS350.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Most of those 400hp sedans you mention are performance-"lite" brands. Examples would be the M340i, C43 AMG, and S4. That all goes back to what I think would be ideal for the F-Sport badge, making it a competitor to these brands, only offering it on the highest power model that is not a full F. So the theoretical IS 500 would be the only IS with the F-Sport package, and not on the IS 300 and 350. The only IS that would potentially be higher up than this would be a more powerful (500hp+) IS F. I do like this idea because these days these performance sedans are reaching ridiculous performance figures, which also makes them quite expensive. Some people are okay with paying less for a car that might be a little less powerful but still overall a good performing car.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Most of those 400hp sedans you mention are performance-"lite" brands. Examples would be the M340i, C43 AMG, and S4. That all goes back to what I think would be ideal for the F-Sport badge, making it a competitor to these brands, only offering it on the highest power model that is not a full F. So the theoretical IS 500 would be the only IS with the F-Sport package, and not on the IS 300 and 350. The only IS that would potentially be higher up than this would be a more powerful (500hp+) IS F. I do like this idea because these days these performance sedans are reaching ridiculous performance figures, which also makes them quite expensive. Some people are okay with paying less for a car that might be a little less powerful but still overall a good performing car.

Agreed, and this is probably why it's badged IS 500 and not full-on IS F. My only disagreement with your post is that IS 500 would be the only IS F-Sport. I could see IS 500 being offered only in F Sport guise, but I imagine (and hope) that an F Sport option for IS 300 and IS 350 would continue.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

I don't really pay much attention to the lease or finance rates. I don't which brand is higher vs lower. But low lease rates, and low finance rates are indicative of a model that is hard to move. Most people would not pay more for a Genesis over a Lexus.
A Genesis G70 is a nice car😍 So is a Lexus IS I do like both of them.

I think you should pay attention to lease rates, because the segment is all about it. Most luxury buyers shop on the deal they get. Doesn't matter if it is a Lexus, Genesis or Audi, Mercedes, BMW. They all do that. Right now, most people aren't willing to lease an old IS for more than a much newer 3 Series. Genesis is so new, so they have to offer competitive lease rates to capture customers and gain some market share.

 

[Levi]

I think you should pay attention to lease rates, because the segment is all about it. Most luxury buyers shop on the deal they get. Doesn't matter if it is a Lexus, Genesis or Audi, Mercedes, BMW. They all do that. Right now, most people aren't willing to lease an old IS for more than a much newer 3 Series. Genesis is so new, so they have to offer competitive lease rates to capture customers and gain some market share.

When will this lease bubble bust? I don't see it as a win-win situation, rather a lose-lose. But I have not run the numbers to know who wins/loses (customer/dealer/bank/carmaker/...).

COVID19 could very well be the one to make it bust, with many people going default on many of their payments.