The Future of the IS Thread

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Will1991

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@Gecko , price wise, UX is another whole level... Here a UX250h (43k up to 63k) starts from around the same price as a IS300h (44k up to 59k) at base spec, but ends up more expensive with a top specification... It's just madness, but Lexus is proving me I'm alone with the way I think with the amount of UX they are selling every single month.

This being said, it's quite good value for money next to a X2/Q2 but it's not a CT (compact class, 31k up to 42k) replacement. A top-spec CT is cheaper than a entry level UX250h.
 
MichaelL

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An ES is and will never be a competitor to an IS. These are 2 completely different cars for different customers. The size is very different and generally not appealing to each respective customer. RWD gives a much different feel and balance than a FWD or AWD car, people and definitely enthusiasts have a strong preference. Lexus I imagine, knows this.. they killed the GS, now don't kill or neuter the IS too!

A refresh is not acceptable. Intro a new IS and RC, like yesterday already. Those cars aren't competitive now, refreshing them won't be enough to make them competitive. They need new platforms, lighter preferably, and new engines. It is not only the Germans they need to worry about... the Koreans are coming aggressively with Genesis. Question is, do you want to be the next Infiniti or Acura? Yes or no?
 
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BMW still understands the market and provides a lot of choices:
www.caranddriver.com

2021 BMW i4 Electric Sedan Will Look More Like a 3-Series

BMW's electric concept has made its transition to reality, and we spied it charging its 80.0-kWh battery pack.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com

BMW has promised to have 25 hybrid and electric models in its lineup by 2023. The 2021 BMW i4 electric sedan will go on sale sometime in 2021, and we expect it to start at around $50,000.
 
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CRSKTN

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I think maybe part of what hurt Lexus was having such a directly comparable structure to the German luxury automakers in terms of lineup.
They might be able to differentiate by taking the IS upmarket. Make it simply a more impressive vehicle than the "equivalent" competitor. Make it more expensive, but what you'll leave people with is "if i had the money, i'd splurge on the Lexus".

This would be a fundamentally different approach on the entry level (create mindshare as having the most "highend" options) while also allowing upmarket cross shoppers to consider something like an IS instead of a 5 series (crazy to think about, yes).

Let the ES be the corporate vehicle. Let the IS be the "Innovative Sedan" it was meant to be.
 
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Which is why I suggested offering torque vectoring on the 4IS and electric motor torque vectoring when the 4IS BEV comes out. Heck, I'd be willing to pay $10k CAD (maybe not USD or Euro though but would think hard about it) just to get a third electric motor. I'm sure many car enthusiasts (or those who know enough to discriminate among designs and technology) will consider the 4IS if it offers something its competitors don't. I can even wait a year for my custom tri-motor 4IS BEV to be built lol.

They are not going to be cannibalizing the ES or LS sales, they are going to capture market like the Tesla Model 3 is currently doing.

Make sport sedans reasonably priced (+$10k CAD tri-motor option on the BEV), reliable and fun again.
 
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Will1991

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Well, I just remember this older discussion we all had, and perhaps we just don't have a clear indication what will happen the next couple of years to the IS, but we already know what will happen in short (2/3 years) therm.

Remember this?
19-03-04-lexus-es-modified-japan.jpg


19-03-04-lexus-es-modified-rear.jpg


Maybe this is the next all-new IS after all? A battery electric RWD IS based on the TNGA-K?

It does makes some sense:
  1. GS is cancelled and Lexus looses V8 sedans entirely
  2. A 2nd IS facelift with a V8 option presented shortly after the final GS rolls out (Autumn 2020) to hold on some costumers and reduce cost due to killing one slow selling model
  3. A all-new electric IS is presented to fight Tesla Model 3, BMW i4, Polestar 2 by 2021~2022
  4. Lexus kills the gas engine IS and a V8 isn't possible bellow the 90k USD mark.
  5. Next-Gen ES will have a e-axle to help it cover the gas-engine crowd from the IS up to GS with electrification
 
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Regarding the ES, we know that rear seats space/flat floor is only possible with FF (front engine front wheel drive) layout only. F4-T (front engine mechanical all wheel drive) diminishes that advantage, but makes sense from a financial perspective. So the lack of mechanical AWD in the ES might be cleverly intentional, the goal being electrically driven rear axle that is not mechanically connected to anything on the opposite side of the car needing a transmission tunnel.

After all, today's AWD systems are very dependent on electronics, so the mechanical engineering is of little importance. Also the purpose of AWD is easily achieved with such systems, given today's 'needs' of AWD, which are traction and performance increase, rather than the simple ability to put down power or go off-road. With downsizing, the weight of the engine decreases, and with batteries and electric motors at the opposite side, the weight distribution gets back/closer to normal 50:50, negating the need of the classical FR layout.

So from the inside, one might not know what layout the car has, only from the outside the proportions with the long front overhang will remain. That is the work of designers to make the proportions acceptable. The ES is not too bad in that regard.
 
Joaquin Ruhi

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Will1991 said:
A 2nd IS facelift with a V8 option presented shortly after the final GS rolls out (Autumn 2020) to hold on some customers and reduce cost due to killing one slow selling model
Click to expand...
This is the one point where I respectfully disagree with @Will1991 and some others here. Much as I'd love to be proven wrong, unless Lexus has an unexpectedly large stash of 2UR-GSE 5-liter V8s laying around, I just don't see Lexus going to the trouble of reviving the IS F on 3IS for the last few years of its run. IS F was unveiled less than 2 years after 2IS, RC F was unveiled a couple of months after RC, and GS F was unveiled almost 4.5 years after 4GS. A potential new IS F would be unveiled at least 7.5 years after 3IS. Should Lexus even bother?
 
Will1991

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@Joaquin Ruhi , that is part of the fun, a healthy discussion on opposing opinions.
Maybe not a IS F, but the previously rumored IS500 from some Japanese magazines.

New N platform already has a V8 option on the RC F, shouldn’t be expensive to do.
 
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Will1991 said:
Well, given that I have to be honest and say my opinion about IS’s future is most certainly due to my hope of getting an all electric IS in the near future.
Click to expand...

^ My brother from a different mother and father. :)

Are you going with RWD or AWD? I don't do Tokyo drifts.
 
Will1991

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Given our weather and that any new car is exponentially safer than my current one, I'm looking for the most efficient option, RWD.
To me the best Model 3 version of all is the LR+RWD, I wouldn't pay more for AWD but if it end up being standard, no problem.
 
Joaquin Ruhi

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Joaquin Ruhi said:
This is the one point where I respectfully disagree with @Will1991 and some others here. Much as I'd love to be proven wrong, unless Lexus has an unexpectedly large stash of 2UR-GSE 5-liter V8s laying around, I just don't see Lexus going to the trouble of reviving the IS F on 3IS for the last few years of its run. IS F was unveiled less than 2 years after 2IS, RC F was unveiled a couple of months after RC, and GS F was unveiled almost 4.5 years after 4GS. A potential new IS F would be unveiled at least 7.5 years after 3IS. Should Lexus even bother?
Click to expand...
Well, @TurboLag posted in the LS mid-cycle thread a link to a followup MagX via CarSensor.net story asserting a return of sorts of the IS F, just badged IS 500. Here's the original Japanese-language story link:

https://www.carsensor.net/contents/editor/category_849/_64832.html

And I think the Google Translation is worth a cut-and-paste:

Lexus IS500 equipped with 5L V8 makes its overseas debut !?

scoop1471.jpg


IS500 with V8 unit pushed into a tight engine bay. Is a special hood with a large bulge adopted as a pedestrian protection measure? In fact, the door panel has also been renewed, creating a brand new look that is similar to a model change.

Appeared in response to the needs of North America
A large-scale minor change of the Lexus IS announced on February 7, 2020. It seems that the 5L V8 model will be introduced in the wake of a major change, which is about seven years after its appearance.

There are some reports that the IS-F is returning to the introduction of the large displacement engine, but unfortunately it is not correct. To be exact, the IS500 is lineup.

It means staying at the highest displacement model in the series. Even so, the "F sports" is expected to be set, where the interior and exterior are made sporty.

Unfortunately, right now, there are no plans to have a right-hand drive vehicle for this V8 model. In other words, it will be lined up as an overseas monopoly car. Probably the main market will be North America.

Toyota is finally fully electrified
Production of the minor change version IS will begin in October 2020, and a model life of 3 years is expected.

On the other hand, Toyota plans to introduce an EV sedan by 2023 and is developing it. The IS may be discontinued after this car de facto successor.

The GS, which was scheduled to be discontinued in 2019, will be abolished when the new IS is introduced.

* This is a forecast article regarding the announcement of new models as of April 13, 2020. We do not guarantee the announcement

[Specifications / Specs]
■ Estimated time of announcement: October 2020
■ Full length × width × height: 4720 × 1810 × 1425 (mm)
■ Installed engine: 5L V8

scoop1472.jpg


The 5L V8 unit has already been installed in the former "IS-F" and the current "RC-F", but the unit given to the IS500 is likely to be detuned and have mild specifications. The photo shows the one mounted on the RC-F, which produces a maximum output of 481ps and a maximum torque of 535Nm.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&u=https://www.carsensor.net/contents/editor/category_849/_64832.html

Again, as of this writing no IS 500 trademark has been filed in the United States, but I'll definitely be on the lookout for that.
 
krew

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20-04-30-lexus-is-refresh-2020.jpg

Japanese magazine MagX has mapped out a possible future for the Lexus IS sedan, and there’s a couple surprise twists and turns.
Let’s break it down — Mag X suggests that the current third-generation Lexus IS, which originally launched in January 2013, will receive a major facelift and be released in October 2020.
A new addition to the line could be an IS 500 model, marking what is likely the last hurrah for the 2UR-GSE 5-liter naturally aspirated V8. In this application, it is expected to produce 475 hp and 395 lb/ft of torque. The IS 500 would only be built with left-hand-drive for export primarily to North America.
20-04-30-lexus-is-500-v8-2021.jpg

This facelifted current IS would then...
Click to expand...

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