The Future of the IS Thread

[Levi]

And it would also make sense what @Gecko said before of keeping nameplates:

IS300h, A25A-FXS is currently available in the Crown
IS350, new 4 cylinder turbo, maybe it will appear on the LS facelift, Crown offers current 8AR-FTS, shouldn't be expensive to upgrade

A BEV powertrain would be nice but I'm not getting high hopes, even a IS450h+ should be a bit tricky in my opinion.

And IS F? NA V8 or TT V6? Or nothing at all? Lexus has to have at least one other F car, when the LC F is still not a given.

 

[internalaudit]

I didn't knew that New N was Lexus only, for some reason I was thinking it was a shared platform with Avensis... I was really wrong after all...

But for us, I'm sure there is so much to win going from New N to TNGA, should be considerably lighter, cheaper to manufacture (Lexus can offer more for the same price), should be more reliable and having a higher torsional rigidity.

Also, coming from some ideas going around on the GS thread:

I just love this side profile.

And it would also make sense what @Gecko said before of keeping nameplates:

IS300h, A25A-FXS is currently available in the Crown
IS350, new 4 cylinder turbo, maybe it will appear on the LS facelift, Crown offers current 8AR-FTS, shouldn't be expensive to upgrade

A BEV powertrain would be nice but I'm not getting high hopes, even a IS450h+ should be a bit tricky in my opinion.

Now that the GS is no more (for the time being), if Euro BEVs become a sensational success, the 5IS in 2027 may have a BEV variant.

But then again, did Lexus plan to offer the UX300e when the UX was on the drawing board? If it was a retrofit, then a 4IS BEV may come. Call it an ES or IS (only affordable Lexus sedans left), if they come with dual motors, they will provide similar driving experience and dynamics.

It would be crazy to have dual motors with a FWD-bias lol.

Also, they should look at the Polestar 2 and maybe consider a hatchback like variant with a lift gate. I think a subset of population will appreciate being able to stuff more through the rear. That is one complaint about the Model 3.

 

[Will1991]

(If I remember dates correctly) Euro 6 Step-E will come in 2022 and European legislators want Euro 7 by 2025 with ACEA trying to push it for 2027, this last one is being called by some manufacturers Euro-final because it will be very hard and expensive to comply with it... This together with the end of the "Super credit" (cars bellow 50g/km) I don't really know if there will be an 5IS without a plug...

 

[Gecko]

Probably good to get this back to the 4IS... we have many other threads about the Tundra, LS and powertrain speculation

 

[ssun30]

Probably good to get this back to the 4IS... we have many other threads about the Tundra, LS and powertrain speculation

You could move those discussions to the powertrain thread, which I will be making a major update to.

 

[Carmaker1]

 

[Levi]

PS? Looks the same as current one.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Does this confirm that the 2021 IS will be a second facelift on the current New N platform IS? 😥

 

[Levi]

If facelift, there is no excuse not to have IS F with 2UR right from the start. After all there is no more GS F.

 

[Carmaker1]

PS? Looks the same as current one.

It came from here, via Mag X?

大規模リフレッシュで延命される、レクサス IS

マークXの廃止で選択肢が減り、FRセダンはいちだんと貴重な存在になりつつある。だが、その将来は安泰ではない。生き延びているレクサス ISは、大規模なマイナーチェンジを経て継続販売されるものの、それもEVセダンが登場するまでの話だ。

www.carsensor.net

Does this confirm that the 2021 IS will be a second facelift on the current New N platform IS? 😥

I am worried about this. I believe something like this was posted, but...

 

[Will1991]

Well, can't say I'm all that sad:

"
One specific IS-related topic is the development of EV sedans.

This is a successor vehicle that succeeds the IS position and can be said to be a virtual successor, and advanced development has begun using the GA-K platform of ES.
" (Google Translate from @Carmaker1 website)

Maybe this "IS BEV" is the BEV to be launched by 2022?

Given current Tesla Model 3 and Polestar 2 specs/pricing, and 2 more years should get us CCS@100kW... This would be epic!

And from the same website, we can see (https://www.carsensor.net/contents/editor/category_849/_64832.html):

Appeared in response to the needs of North America

A large-scale minor change of the Lexus IS announced on February 7, 2020. It seems that the 5L V8 model will be introduced in the wake of a major change, which is about seven years after its appearance.

There are some reports that the IS-F is returning to the introduction of the large displacement engine, but unfortunately it is not correct. To be exact, the IS500 is lineup.

It means staying at the highest displacement model in the series. Even so, the "F sports" is expected to be set, where the interior and exterior are made sporty.

And:

The GS, which was scheduled to be discontinued in 2019, will be abolished when the new IS is introduced.

Timing is about right...

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

One specific IS-related topic is the development of EV sedans.

This is a successor vehicle that succeeds the IS position and can be said to be a virtual successor, and advanced development has begun using the GA-K platform of ES.
" (Google Translate from @Carmaker1 website)

Maybe this "IS BEV" is the BEV to be launched by 2022?

Indeed, the Google Translated version of that Carsensor.net article adds a fourth rumor to the future of IS: that 4IS will become perhaps the first Lexus on the upcoming dedicated battery-electric e-TNGA architecture.

Here are the rumored "future of IS" scenarios reported thus far:

1) An all-new, proper 4th-generation IS debuts no later than the 2022 model year on either the GA-L (Lexus LC/LS) or GA-N (Toyota Crown) architecture. (Let's call this the optimists' scenario, but one I'm fearing is less and less likely).

2) The current New N architecture 3rd-gen Lexus IS receives a second facelift for the 2021 model year, more comprehensive than the first one for the 2017 MY. Its proper 4IS successor arrives for the 2024 model year on the Toyota/Lexus GA-L or GA-N architecture.

3) Same as #2, but 4IS instead utilizes the Mazda RWD Large Architecture (including the Mazda Skyactiv-X inline 6), itself set to debut on the next Mazda6 for the 2023 model year. (Mazda's Large Architecture may well turn out to be a variant of TNGA-N or even GA-L).

4) Same as #2, but 4IS instead morphs into a BEV, either on a version of the TNGA-K architecture (per the MagX via Carsensor.net article) or on the upcoming dedicated battery-electric e-TNGA architecture. (Under this scenario, I'd say that the IS badge would die after its 3rd-generation just like GS did after its 4th. I don't see Lexus carrying the IS badge over to this new BEV).

 

[internalaudit]

I really thought it was the next gen IS haha. Maybe it just comes in more colors?

Hopefully Lexus does start with a IS and NX BEV with much better specs than the UX300e.

 

[Gecko]

So... more rumors about delays, same platform vs new platform, yes to F no to F...?

I think it will be very interesting to see what is finally delivered for the 4IS... my sense is that if we get a new platform and at least one new engine, Lexus has made the decision to invest fully in the IS and believes in the product. If we get anything less than that, I think we are looking at the end of the IS as we know it and a future switch to some sort of FWD electric, maybe TNGA-K-based platform, or flat out discontinuation like GS.

New platform + new engines + F model would make a lot of people very happy, and sort of reignite what the IS was always about: approachable, sporty performance that was at or near the top of its class.

 

[internalaudit]

I think from the ashes of the GS will rise the IS. There's almost no way for Lexus to give up on that 3 Series/A4/C sports sedan market unless they are packing up their sedan or coupe (except LS/LC) business.

If industry experts like carmaker thinks another GS development (turned Mirai) was too expensive an endeavor, this just means more resources will be poured into the IS. Maybe it will come with a good voice activated / touch control with the optional mouse, high definition CP/AA infotainment system and shut reviewers up once and for all?

 

[Gecko]

I think from the ashes of the GS will rise the IS. There's almost no way for Lexus to give up on that 3 Series/A4/C sports sedan market unless they are packing up their sedan or coupe (except LS/LC) business.

If industry experts like carmaker thinks GS was too expensive, this just means more resources will be poured into the IS. Maybe it will come with a good voice activated CP/AA infotainment system and shut reviewers up once and for all?

I want to agree. What I know is that when you look at value, compared to the GS, the ES was larger, less expensive, had more luxurious features like pano roof, took regular gas and had basically the same horsepower.

Compared to IS, ES is larger, less expensive, might have more luxury features (TBD), takes regular gas and will have basically the same horsepower.

There is more difference between ES and IS than there was between ES and GS, but the ES is a beast of Lexus' own creation that has strong impacts at home and with the competition. Unless the 4IS is a dramatically different formula and all-new, I think Lexus could very well look at the numbers in 2-3 years and say, "ok, this isn't worth the effort... most people spending $40-45k on a Lexus want an ES, so let's just beef up the F Sport trim and go to an ES-LS strategy."

Imagine an ES that offered a performance AWD (locking F/R) system in F-Sport trim with something like PHEV technology or in-wheel electric motors, or an engine offering with extra horsepower. Let's say all of that costs just $50k. Unfortunately, that will kill the IS the same way it killed the GS. Cost sharing with everything else on GA-K creates a price competitive advantage for the ES that is nearly impossible to overcome. I agree that the IS is smaller and attracts a different demographic... but that is what we said about the GS, too.

 

[internalaudit]

True. If they can give the ES double wishbone suspension upfront, keep the rear double wishbone suspension (just kidding, maybe a good multi-link rear will do), make it really different from the Avalon/Camry, maybe I will bite but I still think the ES is a little too big. I already have an 11 Accord coupe and I consider it big.

But what Lexus will be missing out on would be the sub-compact (???) segment know where the A3 and 2 Series have proven success. At least the IS still offers an alternative to people who like to drive nimbler and smaller cars.

 

[Levi]

Lets us add another rumor, new IS gets cancelled due to covid19 and will have no successor, as GS.

PS: Do not be surprised to read it somewhere else online, we know they take their info from LE.

 

[Gecko]

True. If they can give the ES double wishbone suspension upfront, keep the rear double wishbone suspension (just kidding, maybe a good multi-link rear will do), make it really different from the Avalon/Camry, maybe I will bite but I still think the ES is a little too big. I already have an 11 Accord coupe and I consider it big.

But what Lexus will be missing out on would be the sub-compact (???) segment know where the A3 and 2 Series have proven success. At least the IS still offers an alternative to people who like to drive nimbler and smaller cars.

I agree with you and see value in the compact segment, but I think the question becomes how much value is left there after 1) the SUV craze and 2) the fact that the IS has been neglected for so long and will be fighting an uphill battle upon its return. Lexus could very well feel like with UX, NX and ES, their bases are well covered from $30-45k.

The car market is so whimsical that it's hard to know what to expect from one month to the next, let alone one model cycle to the next. With that in mind and thinking about R&D costs for low volume, volatile segments, it would not surprise me to see 5IS on a GA-K chassis where it becomes the parallel of the Camry, like the ES has become with the Avalon. Such a car could still be all the things I wrote above: F sport, performance AWD, in-wheel electric motors, but a smaller size, slightly more affordable than the ES, and able to survive as a value alternative to 3/C/A4.

 

[internalaudit]

I agree with you and see value in the compact segment, but I think the question becomes how much value is left there after 1) the SUV craze and 2) the fact that the IS has been neglected for so long and will be fighting an uphill battle upon its return. Lexus could very well feel like with UX, NX and ES, their bases are well covered from $30-45k.

The car market market is so whimsical that it's hard to know what to expect from one month to the next, let alone one model cycle to the next. With that in mind and thinking about R&D costs for low volume, volatile segments, it would not surprise me to see 5IS on a GA-K chassis where it becomes the parallel of the Camry, like the ES has become with the Avalon. Such a car could still be all the things I wrote above: F sport, performance AWD, in-wheel electric motors, but a smaller size, slightly more affordable than the ES, and able to survive as a value alternative to 3/C/A4.

Maybe I will just wait for BEVs with in-wheel motors? Only Lexus dared to showcase one but not due until 2030.

Toyota can opt to wait and see how German BEVs fare in the next two to four years. And then revise its strategy.