Tesla Model 3 Performance

[CRSKTN]

The moment the leading edge of real competition shows up, Tesla's margins get wiped out for no relative benefit as they try to compete.

The moment it becomes "a great value!", and that's your driving argument for the purchase, everyone else can match you as they're able to get cheaper too. You no longer have that "it" factor when it's a race to the bottom on price. You've given up any chance of being a Veblen good.

Once "Electric Cars" just become "Cars", Tesla is going to stop being people's "first new car in forever", who are more into technology and gadgets and what's new than cars themselves. It also explains how the standards seem to be so low for their customers for what passes for a quality product.

I personally am feeling pretty positive for the American automakers in electrification. They're positioning behind the scenes quite well.

Either way, this is good for car fans. Anything that improves affordability for people i'm for.

 

[IS-SV]

^ Once all that happens, very wonderful! It will take more than positioning, not to mention billions more on R&D spending (compared to current skimpy R&D budgets). What passes for modern compliance products today via so many major automakers is contributing to troubling sales declines and profit squeezes.

So much internet talk from non-owners about "it" factor, etc., most Tesla owners could care less and know they bought a fast/safe "car" that just happens to be a practical EV. So much internet talk about quality issues mostly over 4 years ago, ancient history for a young company. Despite all the mostly non-owners complaining, this imperfect immature company just outsold Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, Audi in the lucrative US market in 2022, sad news for many auto executives. Tesla has already become just another car company, and that's hardly a compliment.

Yes, either way car fans like many of us will enjoy improved affordability.

 

[CRSKTN]

It will take more than positioning, not to mention billions more on R&D spending (compared to current skimpy R&D budgets).

Why are you pretending vehicles like the offerings from BMW, Mercedes, others dont exist?

I would buy on of those iX SUVs before a tesla. I quite like what BMW is doing with their interiors in that and the 7.

 

[IS-SV]

Why are you pretending vehicles like the offerings from BMW, Mercedes, others dont exist?

I would buy on of those iX SUVs before a tesla. I quite like what BMW is doing with their interiors in that and the 7.

Why are you pretending these BMWs and Mercedes EVs actually sell with any substantial or competitive volume?
(and make significant contributions to revenue and profit at those 2 companies)

Yes, lovely vehicles with mediocre range/performance/fast charging access for given advertised prices.
I do understand they are your personal preference, that's cool. Yes, German interiors often appeal to me too. And maybe a BMW and Mercedes EV would be more reliable than its ICE offerings.

 

[LS500-18]

So much internet talk about quality issues mostly over 4 years ago, ancient history for a young company.

Quality issues in the past? How about the Model Y steering wheel that fell off a few days after taking delivery? This happened yesterday.

Another Tesla Steering Wheel Fell Off While Its Owner Was Driving

The steering wheel of a week-old Tesla Model Y fell off while being driven on the highway, the second such incident of a new Tesla.

www.thedrive.com

I'll have some of whatever you are smoking

 

[IS-SV]

Quality issues in the past? How about the Model Y steering wheel that fell off a few days after taking delivery? This happened yesterday.

Another Tesla Steering Wheel Fell Off While Its Owner Was Driving

The steering wheel of a week-old Tesla Model Y fell off while being driven on the highway, the second such incident of a new Tesla.

www.thedrive.com

I'll have some of whatever you are smoking

Wow, that's terrible. Assuming we can believe the source (as they angle for a "return").
I've driven dozens of Y's and several of my friends own Y's, thank God that never happened.

Sorry, I have no recommendations for good smoking substances. (stick to the whine, lol)

 

[IS-SV]

Regarding the topic here (for a change) Tesla Model 3 Performance, how about the $4K price gap on 3/Y over long range versions?
Mostly consists of wheels/tires/brakes/rear spoiler,/pedal pads/lowering springs/software. I guess $4K isn't outrageous.

 

[LS500-18]

If I was buying a Tesla today, it would be a base RWD Model 3 in poverty spec white. Don't give Elon a penny more than I need to. I learned my lesson with my previous two Teslas LOL

 

[spwolf]

Regarding the topic here (for a change) Tesla Model 3 Performance, how about the $4K price gap on 3/Y over long range versions?
Mostly consists of wheels/tires/brakes/rear spoiler,/pedal pads/lowering springs/software. I guess $4K isn't outrageous.

much less than before, they have different motors, not just software. You can also bump up power in LR in software as well, not the same level.

If you dont care about extra 10% range, P is good offer.

 

[IS-SV]

much less than before, they have different motors, not just software. You can also bump up power in LR in software as well, not the same level.

If you dont care about extra 10% range, P is good offer.

Yes, P seems to be very good value.
Unconfirmed that motors are actually different. If I get a chance I’ll check with my friends in Service.
I have Long Range w Performance Boost software, no surprise Tesla purposely dialed back acceleration slightly to differentiate P from LR (that’s the beauty of software, good marketing).

 

[spwolf]

Yes, P seems to be very good value.
Unconfirmed that motors are actually different. If I get a chance I’ll check with my friends in Service.
I have Long Range w Performance Boost software, no surprise Tesla purposely dialed back acceleration slightly to differentiate P from LR (that’s the beauty of software, good marketing).

yeah. Did you ever drive new Model S LR?
It feels substantially quicker than my M3P. It feels like it also has more problems putting that down in cold weather than M3P, quite interesting.

Everyone talks about Plaid, but I would get LR... only if they drop the pricing on those in Europe (they still didnt).

 

[IS-SV]

yeah. Did you ever drive new Model S LR?
It feels substantially quicker than my M3P. It feels like it also has more problems putting that down in cold weather than M3P, quite interesting.

Everyone talks about Plaid, but I would get LR... only if they drop the pricing on those in Europe (they still didnt).

Yes, I've driven several new Model S LRs and two new Model S Plaids, both quicker than any M3.
My friend made the choice of LR over Plaid and took delivery last summer (with a wrap and Vossen wheels shortly after delivery). I would do the same, no yoke of course. He sold his C63S while used car market was still strong.

 

[spwolf]

Yes, I've driven several new Model S LRs and two new Model S Plaids, both quicker than any M3.
My friend made the choice of LR over Plaid and took delivery last summer (with a wrap and Vossen wheels shortly after delivery). I would do the same, no yoke of course. He sold his C63S while used car market was still strong.

yeah, yoke is really bad. Even if there was adjustable steering ratio, the shape is not great, wheel is too wide at the bottom.
S/X just started deliveries again in europe after 2021, some people have been waiting for almost 2 yrs now.

 

[CRSKTN]

Is their yoke like a standard wheel that's just a yoke, or do they do the whole dynamic turning ratio stuff that Lexus is doing with theirs?

 

[IS-SV]

Is their yoke like a standard wheel that's just a yoke, or do they do the whole dynamic turning ratio stuff that Lexus is doing with theirs?

Currently Tesla S and X yoke (now yoke is a no charge option, normal steering wheel is default) doesn't have variable ratio steering. Bad setup until it does.

But you already know that most enthusiasts dislike variable ratio steering, usually not natural feeling.

 

[spwolf]

nobody has real steering by wire setup with variable ratio in production yet. Toyota will bring their to market in 2024, and several other manufacturers as well, seems like there is a supplier doing that and several manufacturers are buying the tech.

but even then, yoke is not a great wheel design.

 

[Sulu]

Is their yoke like a standard wheel that's just a yoke, or do they do the whole dynamic turning ratio stuff that Lexus is doing with theirs?

Tesla's yoke is just a steering wheel with the 10-to-2 position chopped off and the bottom squared; it does not use the variable ratio that Toyota will be using with its yoke steering. If you have ever seen videos of drivers using the Tesla yoke, you can understand how bad it is and why people are so happy that there is now the option to get the normal steering wheel back. There is a video in the article below.

2022 Tesla Model S Plaid Steering Yoke Review: So, Is It Good or a Gimmick?

Is Tesla's unconventional new steering yoke the way forward or a step backward?

www.motortrend.com

As far as its primary function of steering goes, the 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid's yoke is hit and miss. At higher speeds or on a good back road, there's no issue with it. The yoke's design keeps your hands at 9 and 3 o'clock (where they should be), and it feels nice. It has a sort of solid pistol-grip quality to it, with little nubs in the top where your thumbs rest naturally. In fact, it almost feels like there should be thumb buttons up there. The wide-spaced bottom rim is also nice on the highway, as it allows you full use of the armrest while gently resting a hand in the bottom crook of the wheel.

The steering ratio of 14.0:1, with 2.3 turns lock to lock [pretty normal], is quick enough at speed to make it unnecessary to turn the wheel any greater than 90 degrees on the tightest of switchbacks. Unfortunately, around town that steering ratio just isn't quick enough, and it reminds you why no other car on the market offers a yoke.

Sure, you quickly get used to the missing top rim—we sure did after we went to grab the nonexistent rim area and almost ran into a stationary object—but routine maneuvers quickly become a chore. Parallel parking, for instance, is made needlessly difficult as you're forced to keep a hand on the yoke's grip while pivoting unnaturally backward to look out the rear glass. Three-point turns (or more, God forbid) are even worse, as you're left juggling a rectangle in one hand while swiping the virtual transmission shifter back and forth into gear on the center infotainment screen. We can't imagine how miserable Tesla Cybertruck owners will be reversing a trailer if it comes with a yoke, as seen in the early prototypes.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Once "Electric Cars" just become "Cars", Tesla is going to stop being people's "first new car in forever", who are more into technology and gadgets and what's new than cars themselves. It also explains how the standards seem to be so low for their customers for what passes for a quality product.

The main problem I've been seeing in online buzz now is that maintenance on non-Tesla chargers is hit and miss, so it's somewhat common to pull up to one and it's broken in some way. And if you cut it too close, you end up having to get towed to a charger that works. The chargers are Internet connected for billing, so it should be relatively easy to monitor them for faults.

 

[IS-SV]

^ Yes, third party charging setups are hit and miss, with maintenance being inconsistent and sketchy. Fumbling around with separate app is required to use specific brand of chargers.

With the Tesla supercharger, the user just plugs in and charging starts immediately. No separate mickey mouse apps, no card readers (with skimmers like some gas stations), no waiting, no pushing of buttons. As the user navigates to the Tesla supercharger via the Google maps in car, the battery is preconditioning to ideal temperature for fast charging. Also advice/warning is given regarding speed if the supercharger is far enough away versus remaining charge.

 

[ssun30]

The charging experience of Tesla is by far the best, nothing comes even close. You get to see how much charge left when you arrive at the charger and an estimate of how much range you get per time. Plus the "navigate to precondition" always makes sure the battery is ready for max DC charging speed the moment you plug in.

In the future all charging networks should be plug and charge. Using an app to charge is so 2018.

Anyway current EV tech is nowhere close to ready for mass adoption. Chinese EV owners learned it the hard way this Spring Festival as EVs had to queue for hours in charging stations when tens of millions of people are travelling and many were stranded when their batteries ran out. No charging network can make up for this. It's not solvable by software. And before you say "just build more chargers", remember very high current sources are extremely expensive to build. Charging station operators will just pass the cost to customers.