Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[Gecko]

LS-F? LS600? LS+?

Definitely not a next gen LS.

LS has now been out for 4 years... it is almost time for a new LS if Lexus goes back to their normal 5-6 year product cadence instead of 10.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

?

I think Gecko's referring to my mention that the Lexus Advisory Board questions have been very LS-centric (and pretty wild in the tech feature department) for over 2 years.

 

[meth.ix]

The only major deficit of the current LS I would say is the tech department, and maybe the curb weight of the current platform. The rest of the qualities are matched against German rivals pretty toe to toe.
For a 3 year old car, its styling is still very distinctive and bold, and the interior has some nice artistic touches unseen in this segment. Its handling capability is just as good as the Germans, with only a slight cost of ride comfort but were quickly addressed in the facelift model. Some may argued there is no longer a V8 option, but that is to be expected given the current emission regulation of global standards.

If I'm correct, the rear seat legroom was lacking a little too.

 

[Faisal Sheikh]

BMW makes more DCT for their M cars, and no one seems to complain.

FYI, the new M3/M4 don't have DCTs. They have steptronic automatics. Pretty much no car in this class, has a dual-clutch. All of them have some form of automatics.

 

[Levi]

FYI, the new M3/M4 don't have DCTs. They have steptronic automatics. Pretty much no car in this class, has a dual-clutch. All of them have some form of automatics.

indeed.

sorry, i now see i skipped "no" before "more" in my post, thus being unclear and you clarified that. thanks.

 

[CRSKTN]

I'm seeing excerpts online where ianoco is talking about how the new models will refresh the lineup over the next 2 to 3 years.

"Finally, Iacono estimated it will take Lexus two to three years to roll out theses changes and replenish its lineup"

If that's the case, I am calling Porsche tonight and getting rid of my lexuses. What an embarrassment. The fact they haven't had anyone in leadership step down or get publicly humiliated for fking up the company for 4 to 6 years says a lot about their corporate culture.

 

[maiaramdan]

At least we are sure they are working on making the brand better and mostly they are still alive

That said I really still worried, I may even more worried now, I saw those words as the continuous battle between the old guys in the board and the young fresh ones

Maybe they will revamp Toyota completely even with it's FR CUVs such as crown and century before starting with Lexus

IDK, a piece of the puzzle is missing, although I still believe that the back dark square teaser is the next generation LS and not belong to CUV/ SUV but we will see

3 years more to have a full lineup for the people to choose is really as if your team don't want to face his opponent so it came later and say that's because the traffic, but the other side of me keep saying late better than nothing, to hear the reply of the first side again why from the far beginning get back in a space was always yours!

 

[spwolf]

I'm seeing excerpts online where ianoco is talking about how the new models will refresh the lineup over the next 2 to 3 years.

"Finally, Iacono estimated it will take Lexus two to three years to roll out theses changes and replenish its lineup"

If that's the case, I am calling Porsche tonight and getting rid of my lexuses. What an embarrassment. The fact they haven't had anyone in leadership step down or get publicly humiliated for fking up the company for 4 to 6 years says a lot about their corporate culture.

lol

 

[spwolf]

LS has now been out for 4 years... it is almost time for a new LS if Lexus goes back to their normal 5-6 year product cadence instead of 10.

i am pretty sure know how LS cadence goes, it wont change suddenly to 5-6 years. I bet this will be that special more luxury version of LS, or LS-F.

 

[maiaramdan]

Honestly it's not the LS alone, not even Lexus alone

How many generations passes from the Americans car company over the Tundra/Tacoma/Sequoia/4Runner
3 for the first 3 and 2 for the last

Same goes to where the money should be same as where's the FJ cruiser in the days every manufacturer want one

We have IS facelift while this is the 2nd new generation in the C class which was one of the longest by it's own

The Hilux get around 2 generations with the same underpinning just makeup outside same with the Fortuner and the long time Innova,

I know that you don't fix it unless it's broken

BUT, that's not how the market is going

Simple and small look on Hyundai and Kia for example they are amazing they will give a lot of manufacturers hard time just for the short time in generational design, and no one can argue about their design, on other hand VAG get themselves fast after the dieselgate and they keep having HEV, PHEV & EV every month, not far from VAG , we can see clearly PSA becoming a power and o my God they have amazing design and tech, and by crossing the bond to NA, the 3 have mid / full bof that anyone can dream about it

The problem is I feel ashamed from myself even if I go to test drive any other than TMC products, I am nearly 41 and I had a lot many cars, no one of them was out of TMC at least Toyota started to be better by time, but no Yaris GR for Egypt or Russia, and in Egypt where my GSF we don't have except ES & RX with nearly 150K for each because it's not European same goes to the LS & LX which because they are not European their prices is 350K USD per each

The only logical move for me if I want to save my GSF is to put it in the garage and buy a Corolla 1.6 4 cyl until Toyota/Lexus made a real salon car for me a real FR salon which I still have a hope with Mazda to make it true!

Maybe I will wait to the next Camry / Avalon but honestly I will never buy FF Lexus aka ES !

 

[ssun30]

DCTs suck in modern days when automatics can almost shift as quickly. Torque converters are just stupidly good at transferring a ton of torque. A DCT needs to be much heavier for the same torque capacity to remain reliable. One reason LFA did not go for DCT is that it's double the weight of AMT at same torque capacity.

Toyota always leaves 40% torque rating margin for their transmission (on top of engineering margins). Their heaviest duty transmission is the VDJ200's 6AT which can hold 900N.m for a 650N.m engine. The VDJ70 is limited to 430N.m because its 5MT is rated at 600N.m. I don't have the numbers for the 10AT But it's likely rated for 850-900 N.m; most very high performance DCTs are rated at 'only' 750N.m. That's why Toyota transmissions seem to never be the bottleneck for tuners. Having that much margin on DCTs will make them quite heavy.

 

[Sulu]

LS has now been out for 4 years... it is almost time for a new LS if Lexus goes back to their normal 5-6 year product cadence instead of 10.

i am pretty sure know how LS cadence goes, it wont change suddenly to 5-6 years. I bet this will be that special more luxury version of LS, or LS-F.

Wasn't the current LS introduced in late 2017 as a 2018 model, meaning that it has only been on the market 3 years now, with the facelift coming in this, its 4th model year? So if the model life is shortened, the 5LS still has another 2 years to run.

But if the model life is shortened to 5 years, would the 6LS be a real, all-new model, with a new platform, or merely a new body on the current heavy, space-inefficient platform? I am thinking that it would be a new body on the old platform.

Aren't all of the complaints about the 5LS related to the bad platform?

 

[Ismelllikepoop]

the problem i have with the RCF isn't the automatic transmission in general, it's the programming. it short shifts so quickly. i know you can use the paddle shifters but for an F model seems odd.

 

[ssun30]

the problem i have with the RCF isn't the automatic transmission in general, it's the programming. it short shifts so quickly. i know you can use the paddle shifters but for an F model seems odd.

All Toyota automatic transmissions are like that. Very reluctant to hold gear and always short shift for the sake of reliability. Toyota ATs usually shift right at the peak power rpm, while the optimal way is to allow the engine to rev past that point for 400-500 rpm. For turbo engines this is not a problem because their high-end is so weak but for NA engines it prevents the car from using the full high-end power band. It's one reason Toyota products with NA engines seem to underperform even at the same power-to-weight ratio.

 

[Will1991]

@ssun30 DCT’s also have lower transmissions losses, and are far better to get of the line quicker. Torque converters can take more torque but they also dissipate a lot more energy, specially moving from a standstill... Then, at least some of Toyota's torque converters, have gear lock up to reduced losses but still are some more.

@Faisal Sheikh BMW choose a cheaper ZF automatic gearbox for the Gxx M3, but from a performance perspective DCT’s still are a better performance gearbox, just look at every single superar/HyperCar. A straight cut sequential gearbox would be even better but it would be too aggressive and noisy for a road car.

In my opinion there isn’t a perfect auto gearbox, they go from more comfort oriented CVT up to full race car (sequential gearbox), with torque converters and DCT’s in the middle in this order.
Confort - Performance and feel
CVT-TC-DCT-ST

CVT’s could make a car faster, but completely soulless given it would keep the engine at maximum tilt everywhere...

 

[Jonas]

... revealed some interesting information about the brand’s future ...

Would though be nice with some official announcements and actual presentations of new production models from Lexus and not more talking with hints of the future.

A new 3-row people mover or improved LS in not what I am hoping for though. Not something purely electrical either.

 

[Faisal Sheikh]

I just said, no other car has DCT anymore in this class so Lexus definitely is not investing in any. The reasons were given above by a member. Exotics are a completely different category. The advantages of DCT and modern automatics could be debated endlessly.

Speaking of 8-speed AISIN unit in my RCF, torque converter is disabled when you put it in manual mode. Essentially, it is locked-up like an actual physical clutch. That gives instant, head snapping shifts. I came from 18 years of driving only 6 speed manual. This also minimizes any parasitic loss during shifts. I would never have purchased a car with a "slushbox' feel auto, I absolutely despise the slushbox feel.

@ssun30 DCT’s also have lower transmissions losses, and are far better to get of the line quicker. Torque converters can take more torque but they also dissipate a lot more energy, specially moving from a standstill... Then, at least some of Toyota's torque converters, have gear lock up to reduced losses but still are some more.

@Faisal Sheikh BMW choose a cheaper ZF automatic gearbox for the Gxx M3, but from a performance perspective DCT’s still are a better performance gearbox, just look at every single superar/HyperCar. A straight cut sequential gearbox would be even better but it would be too aggressive and noisy for a road car.

In my opinion there isn’t a perfect auto gearbox, they go from more comfort oriented CVT up to full race car (sequential gearbox), with torque converters and DCT’s in the middle in this order.
Confort - Performance and feel
CVT-TC-DCT-ST

CVT’s could make a car faster, but completely soulless given it would keep the engine at maximum tilt everywhere...

 

[mikeavelli]

I just said, no other car has DCT anymore in this class so Lexus definitely is not investing in any. The reasons were given above by a member. Exotics are a completely different category. The advantages of DCT and modern automatics could be debated endlessly.

Speaking of 8-speed AISIN unit in my RCF, torque converter is disabled when you put it in manual mode. Essentially, it is locked-up like an actual physical clutch. That gives instant, head snapping shifts. I came from 18 years of driving only 6 speed manual. This also minimizes any parasitic loss during shifts. I would never have purchased a car with a "slushbox' feel auto, I absolutely despise the slushbox feel.

Agreed. Germans have dropped DCT. Porsche is the exception because well they are Porsche. I implore everyone to try PDK just once as it is mind blowing how fast it shifts.

 

[Ismelllikepoop]

my favorite thing about the PDK and porsche is the programming, it always seems to know exactly what gear you want to be in.

 

[internalaudit]

PDK by ZF and solely for Porsche don't have the issue with vibrations slowing to a standstill or accelerating from one?

I read most complaints about DCT are these but then wet DCT like in the Acura NSX is much more reliable than the dry ones in VW vehicles.