Will1991

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Even just one FC, it makes 128kW, certainly more than this thing... More than that would be hard to put in a Yaris due to the needed volume…

I do struggle to understand this need to kill all fossil fuels… I do see and agree with a low/free emissions future for day-to-day mobility, but special products like the LC500, GR Yaris, racing… They aren’t the problem, they’re just a small drop on the ocean, they need to be as efficient as possible but just leave them alone or make it a consumer choice.
 

Sulu

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A G16E-GTS modified to run on hydrogen.
I believe that if there is a willingness to conduct specific research and the resources available to make it happen, it should go ahead. And developing a hydrogen engine technology for motorsports is research; motorsports is research.

Yes, hydrogen combustion engines have been run really, really lean (using 2x as much air as theoretically required for complete combustion, thus producing only half the power of a comparably-sized gasoline engine) but this was done to run the engine cool enough that NOx (nitrogen oxides) formation is reduced to near zero. It is when a combustion engine runs at near ideal stoichiometric ratio (14:1 air to gasoline or 34:1 air to hydrogen) that an ICE runs the hottest and NOx is formed from burning nitrogen in the air. Running richer (less air to fuel ratio) or leaner (more air to fuel) than the stoichiometric ideal lowers the temperature of combustion.

A hydrogen combustion engine will run more efficiently (and closer to the comparable gasoline engine) if it is allowed to run closer to stoichiometric. Greater emissions of NOx (like in gasoline engines) will result, though.

But while the science of burning hydrogen in a piston engine may be known, the full engineering of it may not be; that is where research comes in. And, of course, research may bring other benefits, namely into the onboard storage of hydrogen.

If a hydrogen internal combustion engine is deemed commercially viable, it would merely be an interim stopgap, giving engineers more time to refine and perfect the hydrogen fuel cell (and onboard hydrogen storage). Internal combustion engine technologies are well-known and well-understood and producing an ICE to burn hydrogen would be easier and cheaper than truly mass-producing fuel cells.

Hydrogen combustion engines could prove to be a good interim step.
 

ssun30

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There is no point investing in an interim technology when a more mature technology that is superior in every way imaginable is already in commercial use. The biggest hurdle to hydrogen is never the prime mover but always generation and storage. No viable R&D will come out of this. There is only one very niche use for hydrogen ICE and that is powering and heating spacecraft with a hydrogen wankel engine which can be very compact and lightweight (and burns pure oxygen and does not worry about NOx). At least Mazda got it right with going Wankel.
 

CRSKTN

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There is no point investing in an interim technology when a more mature technology that is superior in every way imaginable is already in commercial use. The biggest hurdle to hydrogen is never the prime mover but always generation and storage. No viable R&D will come out of this. There is only one very niche use for hydrogen ICE and that is powering and heating spacecraft with a hydrogen wankel engine which can be very compact and lightweight (and burns pure oxygen and does not worry about NOx). At least Mazda got it right with going Wankel.

Lucky TMC, they can just fire all their experts since they have this forum.
 

bogglo

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Lucky TMC, they can just fire all their experts since they have this forum.
Lucky for us we can voice our opinion. He made a good point. And I'm sure @ssun30 knows that TMC have experts that would have voiced the same opinion like he did. Some times we all just got to chill and let people be.

IMO this step TMC is taking for an Hydrogen engine that works like ICE is for someone like me. And I will consider one before even thinking of getting into an FCEV like Mirai or EV like Tesla. and this quote sums up my reason "hydrogen engines also have the potential to relay the fun of driving, including through sounds and vibrations." and i'm sure there are many others like me. And on this note I disagree with @ssun30 post.
 

Motor

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bogglo

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Hydrogen Corolla
I love this. Finally a clean energy car I'm very much interested in its deployment. Can we have a 5.0 liter V8 H-ICE engine. if this is successful this could be what speeds up the building of hydrogen stations
 
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Will1991

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In my opinion this isn't going to work other than a R&D product...

Just look at that Corolla, it has 0 available space, all that space in the rear is occupied with the hydrogen tanks…

Look into the Mirai, it’s a bigger car and it’s not physically possible to have a driveshaft to be RWD on that car since it has a hydrogen tank in that place, and since this solution requires considerably more “fuel” due to being less efficient, it would have even less space..


BMW also played with this idea, in the 2000s:

It could run on gasoline or hydrogen.

By 2007 they upgraded it to comply with liquid hydrogen, to have the double of the “fuel” capacity per volume than with a 700bar solution:


BMW will now sell FCV’s with Toyota’s Fuel Cell...
 
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maiaramdan

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I love this. Finally a clean energy car I'm very much interested in its deployment. Can we have a 5.0 liter V8 H-ICE engine. if this is successful this could be what speeds up the building of hydrogen stations
Agree a step in the right direction, it still needs a lot of work and time for fruitation though!
 

carguy420

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I wonder if this hydrogen powered Corolla hatchback is secretly one of their GR Corolla prototypes, converted to run on hydrogen for research purposes.
 

Sulu

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Lexus is coming up with 8-seater SUV (Toyota will have one). I guess that's where the market is heading with people left with nothing to do but procreate during this pandemic.

Lexus and Toyota are late to the party. Lexus and Toyota are finally getting the proper 3-row, 7- or 8-passenger crossovers that dealers have been calling for and other automakers already have (Acura MDX, Hyundai Palisade, Kia Telluride).

 

internalaudit

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Lexus and Toyota are late to the party. Lexus and Toyota are finally getting the proper 3-row, 7- or 8-passenger crossovers that dealers have been calling for and other automakers already have (Acura MDX, Hyundai Palisade, Kia Telluride).

If it's going to be pricier than the GX and LX... and much more than the more dynamic MDX, it will at least have workmanship, reliability and a touch screen display.
 

mikeavelli

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Lexus and Toyota are late to the party. Lexus and Toyota are finally getting the proper 3-row, 7- or 8-passenger crossovers that dealers have been calling for and other automakers already have (Acura MDX, Hyundai Palisade, Kia Telluride).


It’s fine it’s coming. They know they are late to the CUV 3 row. They know the RX L isn’t much and the GX is a true SUV. They know the LX is a Legend but smaller than some cars in its price range.

My thoughts are we will have a killer in that segment. An all new larger 7/8 seater that will have learned all the tricks in the book. I doubt it goes the sporty side which is fine.
 

mikeavelli

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Too add, the RX and LX came before most anything not Range Rover. GX was early too. NX and RX L and UX came late. NX sells very well.

I remember the internet bitching when Lexus had 3 SUVs. No one else did. Today Lexus actually offers less SUVs than the Germans, Crazy how in 20 years things changed.
 

mediumhot

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Too add, the RX and LX came before most anything not Range Rover. GX was early too. NX and RX L and UX came late. NX sells very well.

I remember the internet bitching when Lexus had 3 SUVs. No one else did. Today Lexus actually offers less SUVs than the Germans, Crazy how in 20 years things changed.

NX came really late unfortunately. Remember all the rumors about dressed up Rav4 with L badge back in what? 2003? 2005? They just should have went with it. I guess XU30 did so great for them at the time that they've overlooked the appeal of small CUV - which is today considered medium CUV. BMW have pulled the trigger before anyone else on X3 and it has paid off big time for them. It's so easy to play the general now when the war has played out but back then or 15 years ago it was not as clear as it is today that SUV will rule them all one day. You have to remember that BMW and Porsche have used all of their brand panache to push X3/X6/Cayenne and remain with it as many have ridiculed it at the time. Acura has tried to do the same with RDX and ZDX but it didn't have strength to carry it through and both first gen RDX and ZDX were considered failures. There is no doubt that ZDX would have decent sales had it came out 5 years later than it did but Acura didn't have enough of brand weight to be a pioneer.
 

mikeavelli

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NX came really late unfortunately. Remember all the rumors about dressed up Rav4 with L badge back in what? 2003? 2005? They just should have went with it. I guess XU30 did so great for them at the time that they've overlooked the appeal of small CUV - which is today considered medium CUV. BMW have pulled the trigger before anyone else on X3 and it has paid off big time for them. It's so easy to play the general now when the war has played out but back then or 15 years ago it was not as clear as it is today that SUV will rule them all one day. You have to remember that BMW and Porsche have used all of their brand panache to push X3/X6/Cayenne and remain with it as many have ridiculed it at the time. Acura has tried to do the same with RDX and ZDX but it didn't have strength to carry it through and both first gen RDX and ZDX were considered failures. There is no doubt that ZDX would have decent sales had it came out 5 years later than it did but Acura didn't have enough of brand weight to be a pioneer.
Good points. Yeah NX was very late but a power house. It’s sold much better than they anticipated. They expected about 35k sales a year and its consistently in the 50s and one of the top 3 sellers in class. Tho in retrospect maybe if it did come early it wouldn’t have done as well as the market hadn’t shifted quite yet.

The first gen RDX was early and it was compact with a turbo-4 way before the Germans and only SH-AWD. Like you said lack of badge came into play and it wasn’t fast or fuel efficient. I agree today it might work for them, I believe China has a smaller HR-V rebadge. The making of the RDX into a largerknock-off RX has worked wonders for sales.

ZDX was also early, behind the X6 but again lack of badge power mixed with pretty awful styling and lack of actual utility killed it. The X6 at least can fit rear passengers. I agree today if it at least added more utility it should sell. Some people love ugly cuvs lol. They just sell.

Acura and Honda dealers have begged for a larger Pilot. Thus the collab with GM. Though it sounds like GM is doing most of the work. Contrarily, Toyota and Lexus are making their own. It will be curious to see how GM x Honda/Acura works.

The Qx50 was early too and FM based with the VQ but so ridiculously tiny in the rear and trunk. Lack of badge also didn’t help. When we got the Chinese market stretched one sales exploded relatively speaking for it. The current generation was planned to be their new volume leader but high price, weird looks, badge and an engine they isn’t fuel efficient or powerful has hurt it. Trying to pawn a FWD, CVT QX55 coupe as a FX also doesn’t help. Talking about early, the FX pre-dates any sporty RWD, SUV. A shame they never stuck with it. It had a hard-core fanbase and with the V-8 was something else.

Nissans new plan is to just turn Infiniti into Nissan plus so I expect more execution like the QX80 (damn near a re-badge) than all new vehicles. I honestly don’t think people will notice.

If we look at the Germans they continue to add all sorts of SUVs, electric ones, coupes, tiny ones, large ones etc,