That sounds quite interesting, I've never heard of it before.
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That sounds quite interesting, I've never heard of it before.
Not sure if you have read this article before but I'll share it regardless. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ush-spurs-rush-at-yamaha-for-plug-in-know-how
RAL
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Welcome to LE @carguy420
Welcome to the forum.
I think this is a Toyota Group decision, maybe it doesn't want its two wheeler buddy to be left behind in bike electrification? The Yamaha car thing is a bit strange, since Toyota Motor Corp doesn't really any help from it (they already have big name partners who are EV experts). Is Yamaha is afraid of a deal between TMC and Suzuki? I don't think they can really stop that.
Shame that Yamaha is no longer making sports car engines for Toyota Motor Corp these days. They should have at least asked Yamaha to try with an Inline-6 for the Supra...
I am not sure they dont contribute in R&D of new engines, for instance 1.6l 3cly turbo might be using some of their tech.
TheNerdyPotato
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I recall my old 96 Camry with the 4 speed A140E transaxle had a Ravignaux gear in it with no other planetary sets, or at least that's what the FSM said. It's very similar to the A540 used in the V6 Camry and ES300 of the same era. They have 2 reduction gears, direct drive, and overdrive for forward gears. A reverse gear is also included in the same unit. The 6 speed U660 used with the FWD 2GR uses a Lapalletier (spelling?) which is a Ravignaux with an extra planetary set for the 2 additional forward gears.
I found that video a while back. Good info.
Should the next generation Toyota 86 be more of a Toyota and less of a Subaru? But my main question is its engine, in terms of feel and performance it has a lot of room for improvement. Do you think Toyota will commission Yamaha for a better engine?
TheNerdyPotato
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I don't know. I've seen a lot of rumors and speculation. Every article I've seen has said that Subaru was still committed to the project.
That reminds me, I haven't seen anything about the S-FR since the concept.
That reminds me, I haven't seen anything about the S-FR since the concept.
I think the S-FR is already scrapped, I could be wrong though.
The 86 could definitely use some serious improvements to the engine and interior. A more powerful and higher revving NA engine plus a nicer interior would greatly improve an already good car.
TheNerdyPotato
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Part of the reason why the interior is so blah is because it started as a Scion in the US. Scion had the monospec policy, where there are no trim levels. A hypothetical 86 XSE could be quite nice, while keeping a base SE trim could keep entry level pricing down.
As for the engine, the internet rumormill is pointing to the bored out FA24 as the new engine. I'm OK with the car having relatively low power. What it needs is a fatter low-end for daily driving. A larger displacement engine could meet or beat current high-end while filling in the midrange torque dip. Of course, a top tier turbo version is basically a necessity.
If the next 86's engine is going to be the FA24 the consumers in Japan will have to pay a higher road tax which might limit its appeal in its home market.
In which country did Toyota sell the highest amount of 86? USA or Australia or other?
TheNerdyPotato
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I don't know about JDM, but from what I've gathered, the FR-S/86 sold more in USA than in Europe and Australia combined.
The Internet's biggest problem with the 86 is the lack of a turbo. The true biggest problem with the 86 is that it's a very purist light sports car with zero practicality and comfort. It has harder suspension than most supercars, so having nicer interior is not going to help its non-existent practicality and comfort. Anyone who actually have driven the 86 (myself included) will notice it's a nightmare to go over bumps in this thing. Most of those who claim they will buy a 86 turbo will not end up buying one. Having a turbo will help with sales, but it must also be accompanied with a more benign suspension tuning for wider market appeal, which goes against the original intention of the 86.
I would love to see them cancelling the 86 because it's getting so much unfair comment from people who don't understand what a 86 is. Just build some Yaris or Corolla-based hot hatches; they are easier to sell and cost less to build.
I would love to see them cancelling the 86 because it's getting so much unfair comment from people who don't understand what a 86 is. Just build some Yaris or Corolla-based hot hatches; they are easier to sell and cost less to build.
Except the S Class, every German car is a nightmare over bumps and potholes. That is what happens when 'handling' and stylish rubber-bands are what every buyer wants.
US of course... and main purpose of 86 is brand image, positive reviews, which is what it got.
There is little chance that next 86 or Supra will have some awesome sales, they can only be decent.
TheNerdyPotato
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I suppose another issue with the 86 is that it has strayed from its namesake. The AE86 was an inexpensive compact RWD econobox that happened to be fun to drive and not really a sports car. The FBRRSZ86 isn't *expensive* but it's definitely not cheap, either. I guess they just can't build them like they used to.
Fun research: Adjusted for inflation a RWD 1985 Corolla in USA would cost roughly between $19k for a SR5 coupe and $23k for a GTS hatchback. The FWD variants were ~$17k-22k. 2018 Corolla starts at $18,600, while the 86 is $26,255.
Just saying... Maybe a RWD version of the current Corolla would be a better match for the market. TNGA does support a rear drive axle for AWD vehicles. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe it could be tweaked for a longitudinal powertrain for a true Corolla Sports Edition.
Fun research: Adjusted for inflation a RWD 1985 Corolla in USA would cost roughly between $19k for a SR5 coupe and $23k for a GTS hatchback. The FWD variants were ~$17k-22k. 2018 Corolla starts at $18,600, while the 86 is $26,255.
Just saying... Maybe a RWD version of the current Corolla would be a better match for the market. TNGA does support a rear drive axle for AWD vehicles. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe it could be tweaked for a longitudinal powertrain for a true Corolla Sports Edition.
I am sure new Corolla Hatch will have GRMN edition, if that 1.6l 3cly turbo with 250hp is correct, they will put it across the range... but otherwise 86 is a coupe, and obviously will always be better driver than some Corolla.