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Hey guys let's not get carried away. If Toyota's hybrid system is fitted with a solid state battery, would it improve its performance?
When it comes to the under 2.0l engine, is it going to be a 3 cylinder or a 4 cylinder? Is it going to be NA or turbo?
When it comes to the under 2.0l engine, is it going to be a 3 cylinder or a 4 cylinder? Is it going to be NA or turbo?
Unlikely, since solid state batteries have low power density, making them only suitable for BEVs. Toyota is more likely to stick with liquid electrolyte Li-ion for HVs/PHVs. It is now at 1kW/kg at package level, but there's still a lot of potential. 3kW/kg is achievable on liquid electrolyte Li-ion (the Chevy Malibu Hybrid already achieved that with the 5kW/kg Fujitsu cell).
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Is there any reason Toyota kept their batteries at a low power density? Is it a cost issue or safety issue?
TheNerdyPotato
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www.thedrive.com/tech/15584/toyotas-solid-state-battery-lifespan-disappoints-face-still-more-challenges
I hadn't heard about this tech and its developments. A little googling found this article. Apparently, it's not the energy density, so much as the lifespan of the batteries. "He did note that customers would not buy an electric car if the battery pack needed to be replaced after three years." This quote leads me to believe that the SSBs tend to wear out quickly.
I hadn't heard about this tech and its developments. A little googling found this article. Apparently, it's not the energy density, so much as the lifespan of the batteries. "He did note that customers would not buy an electric car if the battery pack needed to be replaced after three years." This quote leads me to believe that the SSBs tend to wear out quickly.
It will be sometime before Toyota truly make high performance hybrids for the public. I personally hope Gazoo Racing churns out some badass vehicles in the future.
That article was a clickbait amongst all the anti-Toyota pro-Tesla press which was prevalent during that time. BBC reported it in a more neutral tone and the words used were like "Toyota wants a battery that could last well beyond 150,000km". The "three years" comment was not referring to the SSBs, but some sloppy Li-ion batteries made by some Chinese OEMs. Overall, they are making solid (no pun intended) progress in that front, although just like any new technology, they won't completely switch to it on Day One.
Low power density is an inherent characteristic of SSBs, since the electrodes have high impedence and thus low charge flux across them. You can Google it; it is shown clearly on a research funded by Toyota that, SSBs will have at most 2kW/L of volumetric power density, which is well below what regular Li-ion batteries can achieve.
We don't really know what metric Toyota uses for battery power. Some manufacturers quote 15-second burst maximum, some 30-second burst maximum, and it can even be sustained output. These values can be wildly different. It could also be that the battery pack itself is not the limit, but rather it is the inverter. The true specs of the batteries are their trade secret, so we can only speculate. The 500h system has a 45kg pack with 45kW, making it roughly 1kW/kg, that's the only number accessible on our part.
What we do know is that the TS050 LMP1 car has a battery with more than 368kW, while the car itself only weighs 870kg (again, specific numbers of the battery is a trade secret). So clearly TMC should have a few cards up its sleeves. Maybe we will see the true potential of their batteries when they release their first mass-produced THS-R sports car.
F1 Silver Arrows
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By the way, welcome @carguy420 to Lexus Enthusiast! 
I would guess new 1.5 NR engine that they started putting everywhere last year, Europe has estec version.
And of course new 1.5l hybrid.
Very interesting, this is last year hybrid, what system does it have? Same as Prius?
Actually Toyota has mentioned more aggressive battery power in sport mode for both UX and ES. I wonder if this is basis of rumors of upcoming Prius engine update with more power.
Since many countries tax on CO2, and especially based on WLTP, they will likely put this in Sport mode only, since that will allow them to have both savings in standard more and extra power in Sports mode. This is of course very nice because users do not need full acceleration for a very long sustained time and is of course possible to do.
First gen GS450h actually had two "speeds" and it allowed for a lot more torque and power at up to 40 mph or whatever it was (forgot) but it was supposedly terribly expensive.
Also, main reason they are doing above is to counter Nissan's e-Power series hybrids that are becoming super popular in Japan, and exactly for the same reason - Nissan tuned it to deliver very good output at low speeds, and still deliver good rated mpg.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterl...at-the-hybrid-car-of-the-future/#f8ebebf7797c
Nissan keeps saying how their system is cheaper than parallel hybrid, but I seriously do question that since they would produce it outside Japan if this was the case. There is really no reason for them to let Toyota grab all the sales in Europe. However this year Nissan Note has overcome Prius this year to be #1 best seller, i would guess big reason is this e-power system.
The Corolla HV shares powertrain with Gen.4 Prius, not the latest one. Gen.5 Prius powertrain is coming on the 2019 facelifted Corolla HV and Corolla PHV.
It is the predecessor to the multistage, a two stage system using a ravigenaux planetary gear.. The multistage expands upon that by adding an extra set of planetary gear giving four different ratios. It's misleading when Toyota PR say the multistage is a hybrid mated to a four speed auto, since the extra planetary gear sets are part of the hybrid system, and there's no torque converter. By their definition the GS450h had a hybrid mated to a two speed auto.
e-Power is a pure serial hybrid that suits kei cars and subcompact city cars very well since it's very simple, hence its popularity in Japan. Actually Toyota regards it as a very competent threat and is investigating its own serial hybrid powertrain for Daihatsu. Alternatively it could source the mild-hybrid system from Suzuki, although it won't be nearly as efficient.
The problem is that it's not scalable. You see, it needs an ICE, a generator, a motor, and a very high power density battery, all of which become really expensive when required power levels grow above 60kW. The Chevy Volt (also a serial hybrid) has a huge battery that acts as a buffer to decouple the power of the generator and the motor. e-Power has close to no energy reservoir, so all the components need to be sized to exactly the same specs which drives up the cost.
Let's say you are making a 100kW hybrid car. On a pure serial hybrid you will need a 100kW ICE, a 100kW generator, a 100kW battery, and a 100kW motor (although the ICE and generator can be downsized to ~50kW). A serial-parallel needs a 75kW ICE, a 25kW generator, a 25kW battery, a 50kW motor, and a planetary gear system. Finally a parallel hybrid needs a 75kW ICE, a 25kW battery, a 25kW motor, and a mechanical gearbox. Now you see how e-Power becomes awkward in high power applications.
So in the end e-Power has its own sweet spot in Japan, but not enough of a threat in markets that need larger vehicles.
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1. Cool for Corolla Hybrid, this is what I thought. Upcoming PHEV should use Prime's.
2. It might be much simpler technologically (but still not cheaper possibly) but customer does not care about such things. They care that it is fast off the line (Prius c/ Vitz main issue) and that it gets good mpg.
It is good for us that customer likes Nissan's hybrids because it will make Toyota focus on speed, not just mpg.
TheNerdyPotato
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I thought a ravigneaux gear set was basically a double planetary gear with 2 suns and rings that is used by many 4 speed automatics. It seems a little overkill for a 2 speed. Maybe that's what the multistage is using?
A ravigenaux gearset offers three forward ratios and one reverse ratio right? I think those 4ATs usually have an overdrive attached for the 4th gear.
The GS450h only makes use of two out of the three ratios. The multi-stage uses two separate planetary gearsets.
By the way, welcome @carguy420 to Lexus Enthusiast!
Thank you
zeusus
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Rhambler is just a troll who is not actually a lexus enthusiast but just has too much time on his hands.
The Lexus numbers are reported every month but only an actual lexus enthusiast would know that :eyes:
I just never noticed it before and it is misleading in my opinion.
I only noticed it after reading Tragic’s post in the April Sales thread, where Lexus reported a monthly sales increase, while the media (and numbers) shows a decline.
Go to the summary release of other manufactuers and they report percentages based on volume, which to me makes more sense.
Like I said, denial, or it paints a misleading picture. Either way, regardless of how they report, it’s not changing (nor can it hide for long) the fact that another luxury maker will overtake Lexus if the REAL RATES don’t change.
I only noticed it after reading Tragic’s post in the April Sales thread, where Lexus reported a monthly sales increase, while the media (and numbers) shows a decline.
Go to the summary release of other manufactuers and they report percentages based on volume, which to me makes more sense.
Like I said, denial, or it paints a misleading picture. Either way, regardless of how they report, it’s not changing (nor can it hide for long) the fact that another luxury maker will overtake Lexus if the REAL RATES don’t change.
There are rumors of sport models with 250hp 1.6l 3cl turbo engine... I dont think it will be a hybrid (not a full one anyway).