Levi

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Land Cruiser SE & EPU pickup truck are on revised GA-L. The LF-ZC/ZL are RWD. 4IS has been confirmed and it's all but confirmed the 6LS is in the works too.
So, did I miss something? Landcruiser SE is a RWD based unibody SUV, and it is coming? That is great, it is the car that TMC lacks (together with a RWD based compact or mid-sized sedan).

But that is still strange, because again Toyota will have the better car. No Lexus version, not even Crown, and Century is based on a (heavily modified) FWD Grand Highlander. Still better than nothing, it will be the go-to all-round high end car.
 
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On a very unrelated note, at a tire shop the advisor was telling me about how he used to own Lexus GS's and switched to BMW after Lexus stopped updating it and eventually discontinued it, and told me the ES is not a worthy replacement and is "just a Camry" yeah I know it's more of an Avalon but it still has that stigma.

At the Audi dealer I work at, I had a customer replace a 10 year old 100k mile GS350 with a Audi A6 because Lexus didn't have a worthy replacement for it.

I think the GS had a lot more "Lexus enthusiast" owners that were loyal to the brand, as opposed to the ES. That said, the ES sells like hot cakes so I guess it doesn't really matter, but the discontinuation of GS did lose Lexus a lot of loyal customers I think.

We really need to have Lexus executives to see this. The GS was their best car. It was a perfect blend of performance and luxury, until the LC came along.
 

Flagship1

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On a very unrelated note, at a tire shop the advisor was telling me about how he used to own Lexus GS's and switched to BMW after Lexus stopped updating it and eventually discontinued it, and told me the ES is not a worthy replacement and is "just a Camry" yeah I know it's more of an Avalon but it still has that stigma.

At the Audi dealer I work at, I had a customer replace a 10 year old 100k mile GS350 with a Audi A6 because Lexus didn't have a worthy replacement for it.

I think the GS had a lot more "Lexus enthusiast" owners that were loyal to the brand, as opposed to the ES. That said, the ES sells like hot cakes so I guess it doesn't really matter, but the discontinuation of GS did lose Lexus a lot of loyal customers I think.
The ES is the Japanese version of a CLA/Entry into the luxury sphere but way better value. With that being said, if you look at the amount of incentives (both publicized and factory to dealer) that they still have fit in the trunk to move each unit is astronomical, even though the hard product is for all intents and purposes has lot of LS inspiration.

In theory, the sales volume decreases, Lexus plans to only build the ES in japan for the next generation, on a smaller volume line.

i dont mean to sound like a broken record, but Lexus has put out some fantastic efforts in the sedan space, IS500, current generation ES, last gen GS, and to an extent the more sporty current LS, but the market has not been receptive to the extent it had hoped. It seems the only time Lexus sedans move the needle in recent memory is when they have leased really well or went against the grain in terms of powertrain packages offering essentially forbidden fruit in an era where small FI induction and hybrids are becoming the new normal.

Knowing Lexus and alot of tech day features I understand if anyone can they honestly can make a winning product but I believe Lexus has been bitten way too many times by the general public and their passion for performance products not translating into sales.
 

Falcon

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Landcruiser SE is a RWD based unibody SUV, and it is coming?
Yes. A chief engineer was appointed to the program ~18mo ago.
together with a RWD based compact
This already exists in the current IS.
No Lexus version
There will in all likelihood be an LX version of the Land Cruiser SE. Lexus will get the LF-ZL anyways.
and Century is based on a (heavily modified) FWD Grand Highlander
Century is a completely different story. It's fully bespoke and built to Toyota's highest standards. The upcoming BEV version could be RWD biased too.
 

Gecko

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The ES is the Japanese version of a CLA/Entry into the luxury sphere but way better value. With that being said, if you look at the amount of incentives (both publicized and factory to dealer) that they still have fit in the trunk to move each unit is astronomical, even though the hard product is for all intents and purposes has lot of LS inspiration.

In theory, the sales volume decreases, Lexus plans to only build the ES in japan for the next generation, on a smaller volume line.

i dont mean to sound like a broken record, but Lexus has put out some fantastic efforts in the sedan space, IS500, current generation ES, last gen GS, and to an extent the more sporty current LS, but the market has not been receptive to the extent it had hoped. It seems the only time Lexus sedans move the needle in recent memory is when they have leased really well or went against the grain in terms of powertrain packages offering essentially forbidden fruit in an era where small FI induction and hybrids are becoming the new normal.

Knowing Lexus and alot of tech day features I understand if anyone can they honestly can make a winning product but I believe Lexus has been bitten way too many times by the general public and their passion for performance products not translating into sales.

Sales of Lexus sedans haven't been successful because Lexus stopped investing in everything but the ES, and consumers vote with their wallets.
  • Lexus was late to high performance cars.
  • Lexus was late to turbocharging.
  • Lexus was late to performance hybrids.
  • Lexus is late to PHEVs.
  • Lexus is late to EVs.
  • Lexus is always behind on technology.
  • Lexus has done a poor job of managing most of their vehicle lifecycles over the last ten years to keep them updated in increasingly competitive segments allowing them to be leapfrogged by the competition, sometimes many times over.

Most of us remember a time when Toyota and Lexus invested heavily in IS, GS, SC, and LS to make them truly better than their German rivals, but Lexus gave up on that in the mid-to-late 2010s.
  • IS has been starved for updates, technology and new engines for a decade. IS 500 happened because it's a parts bin car they could create without much extra investment.
  • RC is in the same position as the IS.
  • GS was slowly neglected over two generations to favor the Toyota-based ES.
  • LS has now also been put out to pasture with the 460 having a 10 year model cycle, and the 500 going so many years without substantial updates.
While Lexus' lineup has always been a mix of platform engineered FWD/BOF Toyota products and their own premium models, it's clear the company gave up on the latter in favor of the former. I've said this a lot but it's obvious Lexus has stopped trying to compete with BMW and Mercedes point-for-point like they used to, and now wants to make cars that are "nice enough" that buyers are willing to pay for them over a Toyota. That's really it, and they've realized they can make more money this way.

I've accepted the "Toyota plus" mentality happening at Lexus, but what I'm less sure of is as Toyota and mainstream cars get nicer, and BMW/MB/Audi move increasingly upmarket... where does that leave Lexus? We've all seen Acura, Infiniti, Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln and others slip into no mans land when they use the "mainstream brand+" strategy. Will Lexus too, or are they already there?