Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[Levi]

Land Cruiser SE & EPU pickup truck are on revised GA-L. The LF-ZC/ZL are RWD. 4IS has been confirmed and it's all but confirmed the 6LS is in the works too.

So, did I miss something? Landcruiser SE is a RWD based unibody SUV, and it is coming? That is great, it is the car that TMC lacks (together with a RWD based compact or mid-sized sedan).

But that is still strange, because again Toyota will have the better car. No Lexus version, not even Crown, and Century is based on a (heavily modified) FWD Grand Highlander. Still better than nothing, it will be the go-to all-round high end car.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

On a very unrelated note, at a tire shop the advisor was telling me about how he used to own Lexus GS's and switched to BMW after Lexus stopped updating it and eventually discontinued it, and told me the ES is not a worthy replacement and is "just a Camry" yeah I know it's more of an Avalon but it still has that stigma.

At the Audi dealer I work at, I had a customer replace a 10 year old 100k mile GS350 with a Audi A6 because Lexus didn't have a worthy replacement for it.

I think the GS had a lot more "Lexus enthusiast" owners that were loyal to the brand, as opposed to the ES. That said, the ES sells like hot cakes so I guess it doesn't really matter, but the discontinuation of GS did lose Lexus a lot of loyal customers I think.

We really need to have Lexus executives to see this. The GS was their best car. It was a perfect blend of performance and luxury, until the LC came along.

 

[Flagship1]

On a very unrelated note, at a tire shop the advisor was telling me about how he used to own Lexus GS's and switched to BMW after Lexus stopped updating it and eventually discontinued it, and told me the ES is not a worthy replacement and is "just a Camry" yeah I know it's more of an Avalon but it still has that stigma.

At the Audi dealer I work at, I had a customer replace a 10 year old 100k mile GS350 with a Audi A6 because Lexus didn't have a worthy replacement for it.

I think the GS had a lot more "Lexus enthusiast" owners that were loyal to the brand, as opposed to the ES. That said, the ES sells like hot cakes so I guess it doesn't really matter, but the discontinuation of GS did lose Lexus a lot of loyal customers I think.

The ES is the Japanese version of a CLA/Entry into the luxury sphere but way better value. With that being said, if you look at the amount of incentives (both publicized and factory to dealer) that they still have fit in the trunk to move each unit is astronomical, even though the hard product is for all intents and purposes has lot of LS inspiration.

In theory, the sales volume decreases, Lexus plans to only build the ES in japan for the next generation, on a smaller volume line.

i dont mean to sound like a broken record, but Lexus has put out some fantastic efforts in the sedan space, IS500, current generation ES, last gen GS, and to an extent the more sporty current LS, but the market has not been receptive to the extent it had hoped. It seems the only time Lexus sedans move the needle in recent memory is when they have leased really well or went against the grain in terms of powertrain packages offering essentially forbidden fruit in an era where small FI induction and hybrids are becoming the new normal.

Knowing Lexus and alot of tech day features I understand if anyone can they honestly can make a winning product but I believe Lexus has been bitten way too many times by the general public and their passion for performance products not translating into sales.

 

[Falcon]

Landcruiser SE is a RWD based unibody SUV, and it is coming?

Yes. A chief engineer was appointed to the program ~18mo ago.

together with a RWD based compact

This already exists in the current IS.

No Lexus version

There will in all likelihood be an LX version of the Land Cruiser SE. Lexus will get the LF-ZL anyways.

and Century is based on a (heavily modified) FWD Grand Highlander

Century is a completely different story. It's fully bespoke and built to Toyota's highest standards. The upcoming BEV version could be RWD biased too.

 

[Gecko]

The ES is the Japanese version of a CLA/Entry into the luxury sphere but way better value. With that being said, if you look at the amount of incentives (both publicized and factory to dealer) that they still have fit in the trunk to move each unit is astronomical, even though the hard product is for all intents and purposes has lot of LS inspiration.

In theory, the sales volume decreases, Lexus plans to only build the ES in japan for the next generation, on a smaller volume line.

i dont mean to sound like a broken record, but Lexus has put out some fantastic efforts in the sedan space, IS500, current generation ES, last gen GS, and to an extent the more sporty current LS, but the market has not been receptive to the extent it had hoped. It seems the only time Lexus sedans move the needle in recent memory is when they have leased really well or went against the grain in terms of powertrain packages offering essentially forbidden fruit in an era where small FI induction and hybrids are becoming the new normal.

Knowing Lexus and alot of tech day features I understand if anyone can they honestly can make a winning product but I believe Lexus has been bitten way too many times by the general public and their passion for performance products not translating into sales.

Sales of Lexus sedans haven't been successful because Lexus stopped investing in everything but the ES, and consumers vote with their wallets.

• Lexus was late to high performance cars.
• Lexus was late to turbocharging.
• Lexus was late to performance hybrids.
• Lexus is late to PHEVs.
• Lexus is late to EVs.
• Lexus is always behind on technology.
• Lexus has done a poor job of managing most of their vehicle lifecycles over the last ten years to keep them updated in increasingly competitive segments.

Most of us remember a time when Toyota and Lexus invested heavily in IS, GS, SC, and LS to make them truly better than their German rivals, but Lexus gave up on that in the mid-to-late 2010s.

• IS has been starved for updates, technology and new engines for a decade. IS 500 happened because it's a parts bin car they could create without much extra investment.
• RC is in the same position as the IS.
• GS was slowly neglected over two generations to favor the Toyota-based ES.
• LS has now also been put out to pasture with the 460 having a 10 year model cycle, and the 500 going so many years without substantial updates.

While Lexus' lineup has always been a mix of platform engineered FWD/BOF Toyota products and their own premium models, it's clear the company gave up on the latter in favor of the former. Lexus has stopped trying to compete with BMW and Mercedes point-for-point like they used to, and now wants to make cars that are "nice enough" that buyers are willing to pay for them over a Toyota. That's really it, and they've realized they can make more money this way.

I've accepted the "Toyota plus" mentality happening at Lexus, but what I'm less sure of is as Toyota and mainstream cars get nicer, and BMW/MB/Audi move increasingly upmarket... where does that leave Lexus? We've all seen Acura, Infiniti, Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln and others slip into no mans land when they use the "mainstream brand+" strategy. Will Lexus too, or are they already there?

 

[sl0519]

Sales of Lexus sedans haven't been successful because Lexus stopped investing in everything but the ES, and consumers vote with their wallets.

• Lexus was late to high performance cars.
• Lexus was late to turbocharging.
• Lexus was late to performance hybrids.
• Lexus is late to PHEVs.
• Lexus is late to EVs.
• Lexus is always behind on technology.
• Lexus has done a poor job of managing most of their vehicle lifecycles over the last ten years to keep them updated in increasingly competitive segments allowing them to be leapfrogged by the competition, sometimes many times over.

Most of us remember a time when Toyota and Lexus invested heavily in IS, GS, SC, and LS to make them truly better than their German rivals, but Lexus gave up on that in the mid-to-late 2010s.

• IS has been starved for updates, technology and new engines for a decade. IS 500 happened because it's a parts bin car they could create without much extra investment.
• RC is in the same position as the IS.
• GS was slowly neglected over two generations to favor the Toyota-based ES.
• LS has now also been put out to pasture with the 460 having a 10 year model cycle, and the 500 going so many years without substantial updates.

While Lexus' lineup has always been a mix of platform engineered FWD/BOF Toyota products and their own premium models, it's clear the company gave up on the latter in favor of the former. I've said this a lot but it's obvious Lexus has stopped trying to compete with BMW and Mercedes point-for-point like they used to, and now wants to make cars that are "nice enough" that buyers are willing to pay for them over a Toyota. That's really it, and they've realized they can make more money this way.

I've accepted the "Toyota plus" mentality happening at Lexus, but what I'm less sure of is as Toyota and mainstream cars get nicer, and BMW/MB/Audi move increasingly upmarket... where does that leave Lexus? We've all seen Acura, Infiniti, Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln and others slip into no mans land when they use the "mainstream brand+" strategy. Will Lexus too, or are they already there?

 

[ssun30]

If they don't have a GA-L based 3-row flagship SUV like Land Cruisers SE, I would say they even become Toyota minus at that point. I don't really mind them not having a LS successor because that ship has sailed. But still refusing to offer a zero-compromise 3-row SUV is unforgivable.

Right now the entire Toyota lineup offers 10 3-row SUV options! No other brand comes close to that number. But every 3-row model requires the buyer to make a compromise somewhere. By comparison, most of their competitors have a 3-row flagship that does everything reasonably well. Even an Infiniti buyer has the QX80 as a no-brainer choice. But if you were a Lexus buyer you face three options: GX? Might as well just buy the 2-row. LX? Useless 3rd row, suboptimal shape for off-road, less towing than the less powerful GX (seriously?) and way overpriced. TX? First it's not safe until they fix it. Second it can tow nothing regardless of powertrain. Third it's not that luxurious, just a Minivan with slightly better materials.

We already had Lexus being "Toyota minus" with the Harrier being better in every way than 1NX, and soon the next-gen Harrier will be the first to combine all of Toyota's best technology (new ICE + new hybrid system + new battery tech + new chassis). Then with Crown being better than ES. The UX is hopelessly outdated when the C-HR got a redesign and a PHEV option.

 

[dylanfoos]

Seen this article on Best Car...

"The Lexus LF-ZC, a new-generation BEV sports car, was exhibited at the 2023 Japan Mobility Show. It is said to be a reborn version of the IS as a BEV-only model..."

• It has a four-door coupe design with a low center of gravity and a compact design, and is a new-generation BEV sports car that uses a next-generation battery and next-generation platform.
• The ultra-aerodynamic body has a target Cd value of just under 0.2, and it also features DIRECT4, an electric 4WD system that can control driving force from 100:0 to 0:100 front and rear, as well as a newly developed steer-by-wire system.
• It will also be the first SDV that will be able to use online updates using the Arene OS currently under development, making it a car that will revolutionize conventional wisdom.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Seen this article on Best Car...

"The Lexus LF-ZC, a new-generation BEV sports car, was exhibited at the 2023 Japan Mobility Show. It is said to be a reborn version of the IS as a BEV-only model..."

• It has a four-door coupe design with a low center of gravity and a compact design, and is a new-generation BEV sports car that uses a next-generation battery and next-generation platform.
• The ultra-aerodynamic body has a target Cd value of just under 0.2, and it also features DIRECT4, an electric 4WD system that can control driving force from 100:0 to 0:100 front and rear, as well as a newly developed steer-by-wire system.
• It will also be the first SDV that will be able to use online updates using the Arene OS currently under development, making it a car that will revolutionize conventional wisdom.

this is butt ugly

 

[Kelvin2020]

Sales of Lexus sedans haven't been successful because Lexus stopped investing in everything but the ES, and consumers vote with their wallets.

• Lexus was late to high performance cars.
• Lexus was late to turbocharging.
• Lexus was late to performance hybrids.
• Lexus is late to PHEVs.
• Lexus is late to EVs.
• Lexus is always behind on technology.
• Lexus has done a poor job of managing most of their vehicle lifecycles over the last ten years to keep them updated in increasingly competitive segments.

Most of us remember a time when Toyota and Lexus invested heavily in IS, GS, SC, and LS to make them truly better than their German rivals, but Lexus gave up on that in the mid-to-late 2010s.

• IS has been starved for updates, technology and new engines for a decade. IS 500 happened because it's a parts bin car they could create without much extra investment.
• RC is in the same position as the IS.
• GS was slowly neglected over two generations to favor the Toyota-based ES.
• LS has now also been put out to pasture with the 460 having a 10 year model cycle, and the 500 going so many years without substantial updates.

While Lexus' lineup has always been a mix of platform engineered FWD/BOF Toyota products and their own premium models, it's clear the company gave up on the latter in favor of the former. Lexus has stopped trying to compete with BMW and Mercedes point-for-point like they used to, and now wants to make cars that are "nice enough" that buyers are willing to pay for them over a Toyota. That's really it, and they've realized they can make more money this way.

I've accepted the "Toyota plus" mentality happening at Lexus, but what I'm less sure of is as Toyota and mainstream cars get nicer, and BMW/MB/Audi move increasingly upmarket... where does that leave Lexus? We've all seen Acura, Infiniti, Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln and others slip into no mans land when they use the "mainstream brand+" strategy. Will Lexus too, or are they already there?

They need to see this and make changes.

 

[bogglo]

I believe that the GS getting discontinued affected a lot of Lexus and Toyota line up. If the GS was never discontinued the LS would have been a better product. NA would have received the Toyota crown sedan that was only released in Japan and more effort would have put into the LS. Right now TMC/Lexus is the "jack of all trade master of non".
They desperately need to go back to the line up from 2009 and stick to it.

Also the Idea of killing one F product for another F product to be born needs to stop. especially if they plan to keep making F-sport vehicle if not they should get rid of the F-sport branding. If they were committed to the F brand the IS 500 would be a better driving car than it is because the ISF would be in its second generation the GSF and RCF all would have benefited from the continuation also.


I will just summarize here that the failure to be in a committed relationship to their OG products have them out here looking like a sidepiece compared to other Luxury brands.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I believe that the GS getting discontinued affected a lot of Lexus and Toyota line up. If the GS was never discontinued the LS would have been a better product. NA would have received the Toyota crown sedan that was only released in Japan and more effort would have put into the LS. Right now TMC/Lexus is the "jack of all trade master of non".
They desperately need to go back to the line up from 2009 and stick to it.

Also the Idea of killing one F product for another F product to be born needs to stop. especially if they plan to keep making F-sport vehicle if not they should get rid of the F-sport branding. If they were committed to the F brand the IS 500 would be a better driving car than it is because the ISF would be in its second generation the GSF and RCF all would have benefited from the continuation also.


I will just summarize here that the failure to be in a committed relationship to their OG products have them out here looking like a sidepiece compared to other Luxury brands.

We... just... want... continuity...

 

[Flagship1]

Sales of Lexus sedans haven't been successful because Lexus stopped investing in everything but the ES, and consumers vote with their wallets.

• Lexus was late to high performance cars.
• Lexus was late to turbocharging.
• Lexus was late to performance hybrids.
• Lexus is late to PHEVs.
• Lexus is late to EVs.
• Lexus is always behind on technology.
• Lexus has done a poor job of managing most of their vehicle lifecycles over the last ten years to keep them updated in increasingly competitive segments.

Most of us remember a time when Toyota and Lexus invested heavily in IS, GS, SC, and LS to make them truly better than their German rivals, but Lexus gave up on that in the mid-to-late 2010s.

• IS has been starved for updates, technology and new engines for a decade. IS 500 happened because it's a parts bin car they could create without much extra investment.
• RC is in the same position as the IS.
• GS was slowly neglected over two generations to favor the Toyota-based ES.
• LS has now also been put out to pasture with the 460 having a 10 year model cycle, and the 500 going so many years without substantial updates.

While Lexus' lineup has always been a mix of platform engineered FWD/BOF Toyota products and their own premium models, it's clear the company gave up on the latter in favor of the former. Lexus has stopped trying to compete with BMW and Mercedes point-for-point like they used to, and now wants to make cars that are "nice enough" that buyers are willing to pay for them over a Toyota. That's really it, and they've realized they can make more money this way.

I've accepted the "Toyota plus" mentality happening at Lexus, but what I'm less sure of is as Toyota and mainstream cars get nicer, and BMW/MB/Audi move increasingly upmarket... where does that leave Lexus? We've all seen Acura, Infiniti, Buick, Cadillac, Lincoln and others slip into no mans land when they use the "mainstream brand+" strategy. Will Lexus too, or are they already there?

So what purpose will the LFA2 serve?

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

So what purpose will the LFA2 serve?

Their promise that they will build a flagship supercar every 10-20 years. I remember seeing this from somewhere a long time ago.

I am going to go on a tangent though.

The second generation LFA is coming into a Lexus lineup that was exactly (actually, worse) like it was in 2010. Every other car was insanely different from the LFA. It's like the LFA didn't belong in Lexus showrooms. Not that the other cars weren't really good or weren't engineered to extremely high standards. Sure, we had the amazing LS, SC, GS, and IS/IS F (you could argue for the LX too), and while they were very good in their time, the LFA was markedly clearly a cut or two above them all. This is not a damnation of the other cars, they are insanely good, but the LFA was legendary. Alas, despite having some products that were performing well, the status of the LFA inspired Lexus to follow up by making significantly cooler products in terms of performance.

But now? By the time the second generation LFA comes by, Lexus will have no aspirational vehicles bar the LC, LS, and GX (and again, you could argue for the LX).

The IS and RC as we know it will be dead. No sign of TNGA-L IS and RC either.

The GS? Yup, dead too.

There will be no F products. LC F? Got killed. LS F? Barely got off the ground.

No performance SUVs. LF-1? Got killed.

No GOOD performance hybrids of any kind.

No V8s, no new sixes (V6 or I6) other than the V35A-FTS which is only in 3 Lexus products.

And to make matters worse, there are going to be less RWD products from Lexus in ~2026 than there was in 2010.

So Lexus is not back in square one, they went a step backwards to square zero. Only Lexus could take what they had and fumble with it. The second generation LFA is going to look way more out of place in the Lexus lineup in 2026 than the first generation LFA looked out of place in 2010.

They had a whopping 16 years to be the luxury brand that represents Japan with their own products being made in parallel with the Germans, but they blew it.

 

[Kelvin2020]

Their promise that they will build a flagship supercar every 10-20 years. I remember seeing this from somewhere a long time ago.

I am going to go on a tangent though.

The second generation LFA is coming into a Lexus lineup that was exactly (actually, worse) like it was in 2010. Every other car was insanely different from the LFA. It's like the LFA didn't belong in Lexus showrooms. Not that the other cars weren't really good or weren't engineered to extremely high standards. Sure, we had the amazing LS, SC, GS, and IS/IS F (you could argue for the LX too), and while they were very good in their time, the LFA was markedly clearly a cut or two above them all. This is not a damnation of the other cars, they are insanely good, but the LFA was legendary. Alas, despite having some products that were performing well, the status of the LFA inspired Lexus to follow up by making significantly cooler products in terms of performance.

But now? By the time the second generation LFA comes by, Lexus will have no aspirational vehicles bar the LC, LS, and GX (and again, you could argue for the LX).

The IS and RC as we know it will be dead. No sign of TNGA-L IS and RC either.

The GS? Yup, dead too.

There will be no F products. LC F? Got killed. LS F? Barely got off the ground.

No performance SUVs. LF-1? Got killed.

No GOOD performance hybrids of any kind.

No V8s, no new sixes (V6 or I6) other than the V35A-FTS which is only in 3 Lexus products.

And to make matters worse, there are going to be less RWD products from Lexus in ~2026 than there was in 2010.

So Lexus is not back in square one, they went a step backwards to square zero. Only Lexus could take what they had and fumble with it. The second generation LFA is going to look way more out of place in the Lexus lineup in 2026 than the first generation LFA looked out of place in 2010.

They had a whopping 16 years to be the luxury brand that represents Japan with their own products being made in parallel with the Germans, but they blew it.

What you said is absolutely right. It’s unfortunate that despite having the best resources, they somehow still waste the opportunity to become the best due to their laziness. Interestingly, we often hear the concept of “Kaizen” in Lexus products, but in reality, I feel this concept should be applied to the brand’s management and product planning. When your product isn’t selling well, what you should do is think about how to improve it, how to satisfy the customers, rather than discontinuing it. (I still don’t understand and can not accept the decision to discontinue the GS.)

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

What you said is absolutely right. It’s unfortunate that despite having the best resources, they somehow still waste the opportunity to become the best due to their laziness. Interestingly, we often hear the concept of “Kaizen” in Lexus products, but in reality, I feel this concept should be applied to the brand’s management and product planning. When your product isn’t selling well, what you should do is think about how to improve it, how to satisfy the customers, rather than discontinuing it. (I still don’t understand and can not accept the decision to discontinue the GS.)

Amen.

This is Lexus in a nutshell.

 

[Gecko]

So what purpose will the LFA2 serve?

This is why I think the LFA II/LFR will probably be even more challenging for Lexus to sell than the original LFA.

Think about a world where we might have had IS F, a new RC/RC F, LC F, LS F, and LF-1. Lexus would have numerous performance products in the $75-150k range, which would build a bridge and a case for another LFA. Right now we have the LC 500 at $100k, and it's getting to the end of it's lifecycle. IS 500 is also at the end, and RC F dies this year. That's it.

Last time around, to @F1 Silver Arrows point, IS F kicked off the entire F brand, F SPORT was hugely popular, F SPORT accessories launched, and the LFA felt like the next chapter in something very exciting. There was a ton of hype and momentum. Right now there is none.

With Lexus' current lineup, there is nothing that connects to another LFA. No case for it. No chapter, no story, no book, and no reader.

Maybe LFA II will kick off a renaissance like the last one did and we'll get this new coupe and some exciting new performance products, but it feels hard to see that reality right now. In a world where every dedicated Mercedes AMG coupe has failed, the M8 Competition failed, the R8 failed, the NSX failed, and the GT-R is dying....... what is Lexus going to deliver that will be materially better or more successful? Porsche is so dominant in this class/price range, and you have McLarens starting around $200k as well. Who is dying to buy a $200k Lexus sports car? I'm legitimately asking.

I would prefer that Toyota spent whatever R&D costs went into this car on a new IS, new LS, 2nd gen RC, 2nd gen LC, revamping the F lineup to be competitive, and bringing real levels of Lexus luxury back to interiors. Because then... you'd have a case for another LFA, but I just don't think there is one right now.

 

[qtb007]

They desperately need to go back to the line up from 2009 and stick to it.

Do they? Here's what they had on sale in 2009. Just look at the segments represented and not the cars themselves.

IS
HS
ES
GS
LS
RX
GX
LX
SC

As much as people around here lament the loss of the GS and SC, they are in shrinking/dead segments. RC, LC, and LS have moved as much volume in 9 months -- combined -- as the GX sells in about 45 days. Blame it on the RC being old, but there's a demand for something of the RC-F segment, but there doesn't really seem to be any interest in the lower performance coupes at all. The LC has the look, but it would probably be better served also being an F product only. I don't see the purpose of competing in the full size ICE luxury sedan market. People are buying things that stand out and make a statement, but they don't really care for them to have vestigial back seats without a real sports pedigree or broken tires/rims from failing infrastructure.

A crossover on a RWD platform would probably do alright, but the only people missing the GS are people on this board. I almost never see the E class, 5 series, or A6 based vehicles around anymore. Tons of their CUV counterparts, though.

The NX and TX are proving to be big winners for Lexus. Are they rebodied Toyotas? Sure. Are they nice places to be, easy to live with, and generally pretty good values compared to their dynamically superior German competition? Yes. Luxury is less about pulling an extra 0.1G on the skidpad and more about fewer hassles. TX is probably outselling the ES if not for a 4 month stop sale. That says a LOT about the direction of the market. ES is the only sedan that gets sniff in the top 5 Lexus nameplates.

IS is doing OK but is likely benefiting from fewer players in that segment if you want anything other than a BMW.

LX is in no-man's land, IMO. It doesn't have the chiseled looks of the GX and there's not much on paper that says it is worth the premium over a GX. I'm sure once inside the differences stand out, but on paper, it isn't bigger or faster which are both things that Americans care a lot about. The LX should probably be a long wheelbase Sequoia completely restyled by Japan side, but we know that isn't happening.

IMO, from that 2009 lineup, only the RX and GX are really prepared for the modern market.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Do they? Here's what they had on sale in 2009. Just look at the segments represented and not the cars themselves.

IS
HS
ES
GS
LS
RX
GX
LX
SC

As much as people around here lament the loss of the GS and SC, they are in shrinking/dead segments. RC, LC, and LS have moved as much volume in 9 months -- combined -- as the GX sells in about 45 days. Blame it on the RC being old, but there's a demand for something of the RC-F segment, but there doesn't really seem to be any interest in the lower performance coupes at all. The LC has the look, but it would probably be better served also being an F product only. I don't see the purpose of competing in the full size ICE luxury sedan market. People are buying things that stand out and make a statement, but they don't really care for them to have vestigial back seats without a real sports pedigree or broken tires/rims from failing infrastructure.

A crossover on a RWD platform would probably do alright, but the only people missing the GS are people on this board. I almost never see the E class, 5 series, or A6 based vehicles around anymore. Tons of their CUV counterparts, though.

The NX and TX are proving to be big winners for Lexus. Are they rebodied Toyotas? Sure. Are they nice places to be, easy to live with, and generally pretty good values compared to their dynamically superior German competition? Yes. Luxury is less about pulling an extra 0.1G on the skidpad and more about fewer hassles. TX is probably outselling the ES if not for a 4 month stop sale. That says a LOT about the direction of the market. ES is the only sedan that gets sniff in the top 5 Lexus nameplates.

IS is doing OK but is likely benefiting from fewer players in that segment if you want anything other than a BMW.

LX is in no-man's land, IMO. It doesn't have the chiseled looks of the GX and there's not much on paper that says it is worth the premium over a GX. I'm sure once inside the differences stand out, but on paper, it isn't bigger or faster which are both things that Americans care a lot about. The LX should probably be a long wheelbase Sequoia completely restyled by Japan side, but we know that isn't happening.

IMO, from that 2009 lineup, only the RX and GX are really prepared for the modern market.

Sounds Lexus should just give up then.

Lexus: "Okay all right guys we're going to kill every single car but the NX, ES, RX, TX, and GX (A.K.A., the only cool Lexus) because... screw all the other cars right?"

 

[Levi]

Sounds Lexus should just give up then.

Lexus: "Okay all right guys we're going to kill every single car but the NX, ES, RX, TX, and GX (A.K.A., the only cool Lexus) because... screw all the other cars right?"

The problem is all the cars in that list lack power compared to competition.