Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[carguy420]

トヨタ、新型2.0リッターと1.5リッターエンジン公開 新型2.0リッターターボは600馬力を見すえた400馬力級スポーツエンジン

　トヨタ自動車は5月28日、スバル、マツダとともに「マルチパスウェイワークショップ」を開催。そのなかで、新型2.0リッター4気筒ターボエンジンに加え、新型1.5リッターターボ＆自然吸気エンジンの3種類のエンジンを開発中であることを明らかにした。

car.watch.impress.co.jp

Holy shiet, the 2.0l turbo makes 400hp! Also they are turning back on their engines having a really long stroke and going to shorter stroke bigger bore engines, like these long stroke engines are so tall that it's difficult to package into cars with low hood lines, which is problematic if they want to make cars with sleek looking designs.

 

[Ali Manai]

Not to mention they are looking to potentially replace the t24 with this engine

 

[carguy420]

Yeah, they are also saying this new engine is kinda like a modern equivalent to the 2.0L 3S engine, as in it will have both an economy focused version (most likely to replace the T24) and a performance focused version.




That red valve cover really sets the tone IMO 🤤

 

[larryren]

It seem new 1.5T will output nearby 2.5NA (190-200ps) but less thermal efficiency. It have little bit like Honda's L15 turbo using on Civic/Accord. IMO this 1.5NA/1.5T more need coming earlier few year... it make M15 Series like a stupid.....(3 cylinders vibration problem etc. Even new engine more compact and more efficient)

 

[Levi]

I hope they are as reliable as the big engines.

 

[carguy420]

Imagine if Toyota's 1.5L inline 4 turbo has no major issues right from the beginning, the Honda bros and their L15 turbo's faulty injectors, oil dilution and weak head bolts that lead to blown head gaskets will be malding so hard lol 😂.

 

[ssun30]

They developed this new engine family because the current Dynamic Force engines will not pass future EU and EPA emissions targets without a massive power penalty (up to 30% for the A25 and T24).

Also they reversed course with their ultra long stroke designs (103.4mm on the A25). While this improves efficiency the engines have become too tall so the car actually suffers from worse aerodynamic drag. So they went with a short stroke design for lower height. They are also changing the 1.5 from 3 cyl to 4 cyl to also reduce the bore for narrower width. They are aiming for the overall fuel efficiency of the vehicle instead of just optimizing the engine. The initial targets are 12% before factoring in electrification.

The 1.5NA is projected to make ~130PS with ~42% efficiency.
The 1.5T replaces the A25 and makes ~200PS with ~39% efficiency.
The 2.0T replaces the T24 and makes ~300PS with ~39% efficiency.
The high output version of the 2.0T will make 400PS and up to 600PS in future upgrades.

This leaves the question that what will they do to replace the V35? Surely it will struggle the most with emissions. While the 2.0T covers the 400PS segment it's a sports car engine not a truck engine and I imagine Tundra buyers will flee from the brand to even think about a 400hp 2.0L engine.

 

[Gecko]

So 2.4T seems to have only been a stopgap engine if they’ve already outlined a replacement. Crazy that its lifespan will be so comparatively short for a Toyota engine.

I am a bit surprised they don’t just do a modular design and replace the V35A with an inline 6 that shares some commonality with these new 4cyl engines.

 

[ssun30]

So 2.4T seems to have only been a stopgap engine if they’ve already outlined a replacement. Crazy that its lifespan will be so comparatively short for a Toyota engine.

I am a bit surprised they don’t just do a modular design and replace the V35A with an inline 6 that shares some commonality with these new 4cyl engines.

Let's hope they are not going to make the same mistake as Mercedes did. The C63 is a flop.

But I have a feeling they are going to introduce a 2.0T PHEV with 600+PS for future GR or F products.

The new EPA regulations for 2027 will catch a lot of manufacturers off guard because most of them gave up on ICE development due to the EV hype. The 30% drop in power will be brutal, almost 1973 level.

During an interview the GX550 engineer said V6s are the only way for future longitudinal products to pass increasingly harsh crash standards without sacrificing interior space. It would be really interesting to see most manufacturers going back to Inline-6s for cost reduction only to get caught off guard again if crash tests suddenly become a lot harder. We have been stuck with 60 km/h tests since the 60s I think? It's long overdue for crash test speeds to raise to at least 80 km/h.

 

[NomadDan]

Replacing the T24 (and presumably the S20) with a new 2.0 turbo in transverse applications makes sense, but what does this mean for the T24 in the BOF applications? Maybe we will see a longer stroke 2.7 or 2.8 version of the T24, or maybe a new engine?

If the V35 gets replaced, then I hope we will see a new I6 engine for the larger longitudinal platforms.

 

[sl0519]

They developed this new engine family because the current Dynamic Force engines will not pass future EU and EPA emissions targets without a massive power penalty (up to 30% for the A25 and T24).

Also they reversed course with their ultra long stroke designs (103.4mm on the A25). While this improves efficiency the engines have become too tall so the car actually suffers from worse aerodynamic drag. So they went with a short stroke design for lower height. They are also changing the 1.5 from 3 cyl to 4 cyl to also reduce the bore for narrower width. They are aiming for the overall fuel efficiency of the vehicle instead of just optimizing the engine. The initial targets are 12% before factoring in electrification.

The 1.5NA is projected to make ~130PS with ~42% efficiency.
The 1.5T replaces the A25 and makes ~200PS with ~39% efficiency.
The 2.0T replaces the T24 and makes ~300PS with ~39% efficiency.
The high output version of the 2.0T will make 400PS and up to 600PS in future upgrades.

This leaves the question that what will they do to replace the V35? Surely it will struggle the most with emissions. While the 2.0T covers the 400PS segment it's a sports car engine not a truck engine and I imagine Tundra buyers will flee from the brand to even think about a 400hp 2.0L engine.

2.0L with 300ps: base NX300 (replaces 250) and IS300
2.0L with 400ps: NX400, RX400 (replaces 350) and IS400 (replaces 350)

make a new 3.0 V6 with 500ps: IS500, NX500, ES500, RX500 (FSP or not), LS500
then finally 4.0 TTV8 with 650-700ps: any model with full F

Seriously isn't my product planning way better than those upper management?
Jokes aside this is their last chance to prove they are still the top dog in luxury space. If they failed again I'd left with no choice but to move on to Germans.

 

[larryren]

So 2.4T seems to have only been a stopgap engine if they’ve already outlined a replacement. Crazy that its lifespan will be so comparatively short for a Toyota engine.

I am a bit surprised they don’t just do a modular design and replace the V35A with an inline 6 that shares some commonality with these new 4cyl engines.

BTW..... TMC are also developed a 2.0T before this new one... the S20A (182kW/245PS with 380Nm torque) using on ChDM Highlander and Crown Kluger.

It also Making another two "stopgap engine" like 8AR before. And consider the low volume sales of non-hybrid version Highlander brothers in China......So what was the point of developing the S20A? Since it all has the even newer 2.0T engine.

 

[carguy420]

They developed this new engine family because the current Dynamic Force engines will not pass future EU and EPA emissions targets without a massive power penalty (up to 30% for the A25 and T24).

Also they reversed course with their ultra long stroke designs (103.4mm on the A25). While this improves efficiency the engines have become too tall so the car actually suffers from worse aerodynamic drag. So they went with a short stroke design for lower height. They are also changing the 1.5 from 3 cyl to 4 cyl to also reduce the bore for narrower width. They are aiming for the overall fuel efficiency of the vehicle instead of just optimizing the engine. The initial targets are 12% before factoring in electrification.

The 1.5NA is projected to make ~130PS with ~42% efficiency.
The 1.5T replaces the A25 and makes ~200PS with ~39% efficiency.
The 2.0T replaces the T24 and makes ~300PS with ~39% efficiency.
The high output version of the 2.0T will make 400PS and up to 600PS in future upgrades.

This leaves the question that what will they do to replace the V35? Surely it will struggle the most with emissions. While the 2.0T covers the 400PS segment it's a sports car engine not a truck engine and I imagine Tundra buyers will flee from the brand to even think about a 400hp 2.0L engine.

The 1.5L in the Miata makes 131ps but that's tuned to be a rev happy sport car engine, so a regular NA 1.5L making similar power to that is pretty good.

 

[Flagship1]

They developed this new engine family because the current Dynamic Force engines will not pass future EU and EPA emissions targets without a massive power penalty (up to 30% for the A25 and T24).

Also they reversed course with their ultra long stroke designs (103.4mm on the A25). While this improves efficiency the engines have become too tall so the car actually suffers from worse aerodynamic drag. So they went with a short stroke design for lower height. They are also changing the 1.5 from 3 cyl to 4 cyl to also reduce the bore for narrower width. They are aiming for the overall fuel efficiency of the vehicle instead of just optimizing the engine. The initial targets are 12% before factoring in electrification.

The 1.5NA is projected to make ~130PS with ~42% efficiency.
The 1.5T replaces the A25 and makes ~200PS with ~39% efficiency.
The 2.0T replaces the T24 and makes ~300PS with ~39% efficiency.
The high output version of the 2.0T will make 400PS and up to 600PS in future upgrades.

This leaves the question that what will they do to replace the V35? Surely it will struggle the most with emissions. While the 2.0T covers the 400PS segment it's a sports car engine not a truck engine and I imagine Tundra buyers will flee from the brand to even think about a 400hp 2.0L engine.

Impressive. Thermal efficiency gains are huge since they are so difficult to come by, and I believe toyota was already leading with an world class 40%.

In regards to the v35 tundra and other bof models. I think the tundra aficionado will warm up to the idea of downsizing with a hybrid push as long as the packaging improves. The big 3 V8 or nuthing, or rollin diesel crowd will never warm upto that idea in masses.

 

[ssun30]

Replacing the T24 (and presumably the S20) with a new 2.0 turbo in transverse applications makes sense, but what does this mean for the T24 in the BOF applications? Maybe we will see a longer stroke 2.7 or 2.8 version of the T24, or maybe a new engine?

If the V35 gets replaced, then I hope we will see a new I6 engine for the larger longitudinal platforms.

In the presentation they said the 2.0T will be used on trucks as well.

Impressive. Thermal efficiency gains are huge since they are so difficult to come by, and I believe toyota was already leading with an world class 40%.

In regards to the v35 tundra and other bof models. I think the tundra aficionado will warm up to the idea of downsizing with a hybrid push as long as the packaging improves. The big 3 V8 or nuthing, or rollin diesel crowd will never warm upto that idea in masses.

They actually dialed back their thermal efficiency targets considerably. They were originally targeting 46.5% using boosted lean burn ready by 2025. But maybe they saw both Mazda Skyactiv X and Nissan VC-T failing commercially and decided such an engine would not be viable. For them it's a balance between using the budget to build a more complex engine vs. Improving the electric components of the hybrid system, and they chose the latter.

In their presentations they showed the future hybrids will have a lot more power and energy from the electric side like a 50:50 split.

 

[Flagship1]

In the presentation they said the 2.0T will be used on trucks as well.

Interesting right now the only small displacement half ton models are chevy 2.7 i4 and ford 2.7 v6

Toyota is shaking things up

 

[carguy420]

Speaking from personal experience, shorter stroke engines almost always feel smoother than a comparable longer stroke engine. IDK about you but I'm glad that it won't be too long until we say goodbye to the rough and noisy A25A.

 

[Ali Manai]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

"Proxy advisors" more like politically backed assholes

 

[Ali Manai]

 

[carguy420]

One part taken from this website:

トヨタが「新・凄いエンジン」世界初披露！ なぜ“イマ”エンジン開発？ 1.5＆2Lは「エコからスポーツ」まで!? どんな技術なのか

2024年5月28日にカーボンニュートラル実現に向けて、電動化に適合する新たなエンジン開発をトヨタは宣言しました。どのような特徴があるのでしょうか。

kuruma-news.jp

Prior to this technical briefing, I test drove the Toyota Hilux (6-speed manual transmission) and the Lexus IS (paddle shift), both of which are equipped with a 2.0-liter turbo engine.

　The Hilux's engine has a 300 horsepower (red zone: 6200 rpm), while the IS has a 400 horsepower (red zone: 6800 rpm).

　Both cars had light acceleration from a standing start and almost no turbo lag, giving the impression that they were simply "fun to drive."

　Regarding this 2.0-liter turbo, a Toyota engineer said, "Toyota has a globally popular engine called the 2JZ engine. We would like to aim to create an engine that surpasses that," giving us hope for future evolutions.


　The Hilux is a car that is used for business purposes and as transportation for the general public in emerging countries, while the IS is a sports sedan, but the fact that the same engine can cover both areas could truly be called a "dream engine."