internalaudit

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I wonder what kind of Toyota/Lexus PHEVs snd BEVs will be out in three to four years' time.

2027/28 is when Toyota expects solid state batteries to be in its vehicles. Prior to that, bipolar designs.

For people who can charge at home or work inexpensively, and already have or will have an ICEV or HEV, it will probably be time to consider BEVs if only for longer powertrain warranty along the entire performance spectrum.
 

ssun30

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They already have a 1.2L NA inline 3 from Daihatsu called the WA-VE, came out in 2021.
I doubt they want anything designed and made by Daihatsu prior to 2024 at this moment. The Daihatsu company is completely overhauled and products will be discontinued after the current generation reaches end of life.

I think for small car engines they are going to borrow more from Suzuki going forward.
 

Flagship1

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I doubt they want anything designed and made by Daihatsu prior to 2024 at this moment. The Daihatsu company is completely overhauled and products will be discontinued after the current generation reaches end of life.

I think for small car engines they are going to borrow more from Suzuki going forward.
Exactly. Brands that have been officially cut off from the mothership include Hino and daihatsu.
 

carguy420

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Now I'm wondering if when Toyota suddenly got very buddy buddy with Suzuki a few years ago, that has always actually been a backup plan for when Daihatsu finally gets exposed for their wrongdoings and inevitably has to get sidelined by their parent company.
 
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pacman1

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I’m sure I’m missing a very obvious reason but is there a reason why Toyota/Lexus didn’t develop a modern inline-6 to compete with the B58? Sure, it costs money, but Mazda, pooling much less resources developed their own inline-6. I’m sure Toyota with their many applications would easily recoup the costs. As much of a Lexus/Toyota fan I am, it is impossible to not hear about how perfect the B58 is. There is no other engine I hear about being discussed in reviews, even when the product the reviewer is discussing about is not a BMW product. And I commend BMW for it. But it got me wondering - why did Toyota decide not to explore development of a competitive I6?
 

NomadDan

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We’ve discussed the inline 6 a couple times in the past. I don’t understand why Toyota didn’t use an inline 6 configuration instead of the current TT V6. Every vehicle with the V35 is a longitudinal platform and should have space for an inline 6. An inline 6 based off the T24 or S20 seems like it would’ve cut down on production costs. It would be so much better than the V35.

Hopefully the V35 replacement will be an inline 6 with at least 3.0 displacement.
 

ssun30

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Given that they are reverting their super long stroke philosophy to a short stroke philosophy, they will unlikely build an I6.

Their new ICE designed around minimizing the frontal area of the car to reduce aerodynamic drag so compact packaging is key to that. If anything they will double down on V6.

Possibly a 90 degree hot V to minimize height and width. The short stroke design and moving the turbos into the V could alleviate the impact on turning radius of a typical 90 degree V design.
 

NomadDan

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It’s crazy to me that the T24 is already slated to be replaced. It seems like it’s just now going mainstream, and now we may only have three years of production in most of the vehicles it’s in. So much of the engine was reengineered for BOF products and all that time and expense spent for a 3 year production run is crazy to me. No wonder why the vehicle pricing is so high.
 

carguy420

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I find it kinda funny that in order to find further improvements in fuel efficiency, Toyota is going back to the characteristics of quite a few of their past engines (short stroke) and cars (low nose and hood height) used to have.
 

Flagship1

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I find it kinda funny that in order to find further improvements in fuel efficiency, Toyota is going back to the characteristics of quite a few of their past engines (short stroke) and cars (low nose and hood height) used to have.
aero and crash requirements i assume have something to do with it?
 

pacman1

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We’ve discussed the inline 6 a couple times in the past. I don’t understand why Toyota didn’t use an inline 6 configuration instead of the current TT V6. Every vehicle with the V35 is a longitudinal platform and should have space for an inline 6. An inline 6 based off the T24 or S20 seems like it would’ve cut down on production costs. It would be so much better than the V35.

Hopefully the V35 replacement will be an inline 6 with at least 3.0 displacement.
Is there a remote possibility of an I6 in development? When you’re as big as Toyota I think it would make sense to have diversified powertrains, including V6, I6.
 

NomadDan

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Is there a remote possibility of an I6 in development? When you’re as big as Toyota I think it would make sense to have diversified powertrains, including V6, I6.

Supposedly the V35 doesn’t meet 2027 emission requirements. We know Toyota has a 1.5, 1.5T, and 2.0T to replace the Dynamic Force 4 cylinder engines, but they haven’t disclosed what will replace the V35. It would have to be another 6 cylinder I think, but not sure if it’s a V6 or I6. I6 makes more sense from a production standpoint, but as SSUN pointed out, the V6 may be better for packaging.
 

sl0519

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Supposedly the V35 doesn’t meet 2027 emission requirements. We know Toyota has a 1.5, 1.5T, and 2.0T to replace the Dynamic Force 4 cylinder engines, but they haven’t disclosed what will replace the V35. It would have to be another 6 cylinder I think, but not sure if it’s a V6 or I6. I6 makes more sense from a production standpoint, but as SSUN pointed out, the V6 may be better for packaging.

The V35A already failed Chinese emission regulations, hence only LC500h / LS500h models can be found in that market.
It is long overdue for an update but I guess they are just too lazy and dgaf!
 

ssun30

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It’s crazy to me that the T24 is already slated to be replaced. It seems like it’s just now going mainstream, and now we may only have three years of production in most of the vehicles it’s in. So much of the engine was reengineered for BOF products and all that time and expense spent for a 3 year production run is crazy to me. No wonder why the vehicle pricing is so high.
I feel Toyota just want to forget this engine existed and move on.

It's a major mistake to not have VVT-iW/VVT-iEW (which are standard on much cheaper engines like M20) to enable Miller cycle operation on an engine that's supposed to be used on many mainstream heavy vehicles. Miller cycle improves fuel efficiency by about 10% and not including it has to have a negative effect on meeting CAFE and emissions targets.
 

NomadDan

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I feel Toyota just want to forget this engine existed and move on.

It's a major mistake to not have VVT-iW/VVT-iEW (which are standard on much cheaper engines like M20) to enable Miller cycle operation on an engine that's supposed to be used on many mainstream heavy vehicles. Miller cycle improves fuel efficiency by about 10% and not including it has to have a negative effect on meeting CAFE and emissions targets.

Would adding vvti to the T24A allow it to meet the 2027 emission requirements for BOF applications? Adding vvti to existing engines isn’t anything new for Toyota. They did that to the UZ, JZ, and I believe the FZ engines.