Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[Gecko]

I agree with a lot of what you said. Just when we start to see Lexus is getting some momentum, it feels like they are slipping back again.

Thanks. I think Lexus still has a chance to be competitive with EVs since that story is still relatively short, but RZ is a pretty bad first effort when Audi, Mercedes and BMW's strategies and electric portfolios are far more mature. Let's be honest: RZ 450e is DOA for EV buyers unless you've just been dying for an electric Lexus and won't buy anything else. Lucky for Lexus, there are probably plenty of those people -- enough for the first year or two of sales.

There is still plenty of time for Lexus to hit the 2030 goal and I expect serious advancement going forward, but the rollout of Toyota/Lexus' EV strategy so far has made clear that they're going to have an even more uphill battle than we thought, and much more so than Lexus was facing in 2010 - 2020.

By now, I think Lexus should have, at a minimum:
NXe
RXe
ESe
Fast follow with:
ISe
LSe

There is nothing. RZ was supposed to launch in November -- where is it?

 

[Gor134]

Thanks. I think Lexus still has a chance to be competitive with EVs since that story is still relatively short, but RZ is a pretty bad first effort when Audi, Mercedes and BMW's strategies and electric portfolios are far more mature. Let's be honest: RZ 450e is DOA for EV buyers unless you've just been dying for an electric Lexus and won't buy anything else. Lucky for Lexus, there are probably plenty of those people -- enough for the first year or two of sales.

Full EV is going to be a "fresh launch" for many brands, so Lexus will also need to have incredibly competitive products.

Cadillac is already going full EV and the Lyriq is pretty decent and they now have the truly flagship Celestiq, as well as an Escalade IQ coming soon. Infiniti is also "relaunching" I guess by 2025 with new EVs.. (QX80 and QX65 will be the last new ICEs I'm guessing). Volvo's going full EV and the Germans are rapidly preparing an onslaught of electric vehicles that will populate the market by 2025.

EV is a fully different market and demographic than the legacy Lexus buyers that buy it for reliability, familiarity, etc. Worried they won't be able to bring enough competitive products to this rapidly changing market... we'll see I guess.

 

[spwolf]

There is nothing. RZ was supposed to launch in November -- where is it?

their technology sux. If they do just the reskinned BZx, it will not work. This is like Audi from 2020.

 

[Will1991]

That’s like Audi in 2022, the Q4/Q4 Sportback eTron are basically a reskinned ID.4 and it’s selling quite well.

Damn, they even do a SkodA Enyaq based on the same car and it’s selling well!

The issue with TMC is that the base car (bz4X) isn’t anything technically special.

 

[Levi]

The issue is that if the Toyota BEVs is not as reliable as a Toyota ICEVs, media will say "Why should I buy a Toyota if it is not more reliable than other BEVs?". Toyota chose reliability (at least in theory) but the tech does not allow it without making its products less performing than competitors. TMC is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[ssun30]

I think a main problem with their product planning is the lack of foresight: they are benchmarking competitors from today for a product launching in 4 years without factoring in how much competitors may advance during that period.

A very good recent example of this is the new Tundra, which after very long period of hype ended up being just average and left people wondering if they had done enough. The Tundra was benchmarked against trucks from the 2015-2020 era, so Toyota just assumed they got a "world beater". In reality, competition is not standing still and developed very good products. Ford beat them to the first hybrid truck, then beat them again to electric trucks. I personally feel EV trucks are a waste of resources and a bad segment to get electrified so early, but people love and buy the Lightning.

Usually they can get away with this since people don't mind buying an average and slightly outdated product if it's more reliable. Reliability is a crucial part of competitiveness. But the EV world is moving so quickly that you just can't release a 2020 product in 2023.

2025 is a turning point for BEVs since technology would be mature enough for mass market BEVs with 300+mi EPA range / 700km+ WLTC range and effective charging speed of 1000+ km/h. This means Lexus needs to improve range by at least 40% and charging speed by 100% with just 2 years to go. If their next EV could meet these goals it will be DOA again like the RZ.

 

[mediumhot]

I would love to see Infiniti and Jaguar come back on the market but I am huge sceptic. Sure both of them will have some sort of soft reboot but that would be about it. Honestly I don't even see Lexus as brand that can infuse it's traditional luxury features into new age luxury of BEVs. So far BMW (iX excluded) and Audi are only brands that have managed to adjust or adapt traditional luxury design and features into a cabing of tomorrow. Mercedes went overboard and tacky with EQS cabin which is really your usual tablet on the center and nothing else but on steroids. Volvo is just fancy Tesla inside like many other brands out there that play BEV game. I don't have nothing against central tablets but you need something tactile and well laid out as well in order for a cabin to be considered luxurious. New Range Rover did it right but it doesn't have BEV variant.

If these oldschool luxury badges try to play Tesla game and slap only a screen and a yoke inside their cabin they will straight out loose the race. They need to find the way to transition their panache into new game. Not everything needs to be digital, not everything needs to light up, not everything needs to have iPad graphics and so on. If Jaguar is clever enough they will find the way to put in an analouge speedometer and still make it look cool alongside driver's assistance front screen.

 

[Levi]

I would love to see Infiniti and Jaguar come back on the market but I am huge sceptic. Sure both of them will have some sort of soft reboot but that would be about it. Honestly I don't even see Lexus as brand that can infuse it's traditional luxury features into new age luxury of BEVs. So far BMW (iX excluded) and Audi are only brands that have managed to adjust or adapt traditional luxury design and features into a cabing of tomorrow. Mercedes went overboard and tacky with EQS cabin which is really your usual tablet on the center and nothing else but on steroids. Volvo is just fancy Tesla inside like many other brands out there that play BEV game. I don't have nothing against central tablets but you need something tactile and well laid out as well in order for a cabin to be considered luxurious. New Range Rover did it right but it doesn't have BEV variant.

If these oldschool luxury badges try to play Tesla game and slap only a screen and a yoke inside their cabin they will straight out loose the race. They need to find the way to transition their panache into new game. Not everything needs to be digital, not everything needs to light up, not everything needs to have iPad graphics and so on. If Jaguar is clever enough they will find the way to put in an analouge speedometer and still make it look cool alongside driver's assistance front screen.

That is way I said traditional luxury cars in the BEV market might disappear and only high-end will exist.

As for Jaguar, it is dead unfortunately. The i-Pace was one of the first "high-end" electric cars to come after Tesla, but the car is just forgotten even if it is not bad. It is still a mystery why Jaguar F-Pace does not sell because of unreliability, but Ranger Rover with the same unreliability does sell.

Anyway, I think there is more to that than reliability, which is just the last rational resort to confirm one's choice, this applies to Toyota/Lexus too in the opposite way.

 

[Gor134]

Range Rover is seen significantly as a status car, and the Evoque is a "lifestyle, fashion status" type of car. That's why the less expressive Discovery and Discovery Sport don't sell well similarly to the Jaguar E Pace and F Pace.

 

[mediumhot]

That is way I said traditional luxury cars in the BEV market might disappear and only high-end will exist.

As for Jaguar, it is dead unfortunately. The i-Pace was one of the first "high-end" electric cars to come after Tesla, but the car is just forgotten even if it is not bad. It is still a mystery why Jaguar F-Pace does not sell because of unreliability, but Ranger Rover with the same unreliability does sell.

Anyway, I think there is more to that than reliability, which is just the last rational resort to confirm one's choice, this applies to Toyota/Lexus too in the opposite way.

i-Pace is a strange case really. It was Model Y before Model Y when it comes to shape so Jag was dead on the money. Interior is nothing worse or better than any other EV at the time. Range was right on the par with base Tesla 3, stand still acceleration was even better than Tesla. I really don't know why this flopped. And to make it even worse the used i-Paces still hold the value.

 

[Will1991]

Here is the first known picture (to me) of the future TMC cooling system that will work in a similar concept as Tesla's supper bottle:

 

[LS500-18]

Here is the first known picture (to me) of the future TMC cooling system that will work in a similar concept as Tesla's supper bottle:

Interesting... I hope Toyota also learned the lesson on marketing hype / BS from Tesla. Name everything Giga Super Octo Cyber Mega etc. Suckers eat that stuff up.

Let's try to come up with a hype name for their version of the "Super" bottle.... how about GigaCyberWaterPumps?? It says EWP 1/2/3 so I'm assuming Electric Water Pumps 1, 2, 3.

 

[Will1991]

The technical therm should be around "Cooling module with integrated pumps and valves", not exactly marketable or as cool

 

[White Beach]

The LFA successor on the way, coming in 2025! From The Mid Japan Economist which is known for its TMC insider information.
https://www.chukei-news.co.jp/news/2023/02/07/OK0002302070101_01/

 

[Levi]

So the LC F wasn’t canceled, as the rumors pointed it finally turned into LFR – LFA successor.

But Lexus still has to replace the LC/RC with one model for both (not each).

 

[dylanfoos]

The LC/RC/IS might be getting the same powertrain as the LFR as well... TTV8 PHEV. Something we have heard on a few articles...

 

[JustADude]

We aren't even sure about the IS as yet, I hope this TNGA-A platform is true and we get a new ICE IS. But most likely EV IS will come

 

[dylanfoos]

Video about Toyotas upcoming Operating system they are making, Arene. Guessing we will see this in Lexus as well in 2025.

 

[deafcrump]

I think GX 550 comes with detuned V35A only as GX 460 came with detuned (actually just "FE" with port injection only) and no other engine.

 

[dylanfoos]

Next IS to be EV

Lexus New IS Estimated specs
・Length: 4770mm
・Width: 1850mm
・Height: 1437mm
・Wheelbase: 2850mm ・
Vehicle weight: 1900kg
・Motor: Motor
・Maximum output: 360ps
・Maximum torque: 33kgm
・Transmission: ―
・Estimated price: 7.5 million to 9 million yen (55K-66K)

レクサス 新型ISはEVに!? 初のワゴン追加で2025年に登場か!? - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」

レクサス 新型ISはEVに!? 初のワゴン追加で2025年に登場か!? 2020年にビッグマイナーチェンジをはたしたレクサス IS。一部で予想されたフルモデルチェンジでなかったのは、次期モデルで大きく変更を加えるためと見られている。次期ISはシューティングブレークを追加したBEVで登場する!?

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