Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[NomadDan]

In addition to the M20A, M25, and V35A pictured in the original post, we now have the M15A and T24A. So, we still have four engines that are yet to be released. The chart seems to be arranged based on displacement, so that still leaves another engine smaller than the M20A, an engine between the M25 and V35A, and two engines larger than the V35A.

I don't believe diesels are included, so that leaves us with four gas motors. I'm speculating here, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see another V6 smaller than the V35A. I think there are two possibilities here. A high performance 3.0 TT using the 85.5 bore of the V35A, but with a shorter stroke of 85.5. This gives a displacement of just under 3.0. It's a square engine, which, I believe the 2JZ was as well. The G16E is also almost square. I think this would be good up to about 400hp. This may be a good engine for the next Supra and some Lexus models.

The other option is a 2.8-3.0 TT V6 with ~325hp. Smaller bore than the V35. This would be a mainstream engine for vehicles like the 4Runner, Tacoma, GX, TX, and Grand Highlander.

As far as the two engines larger than the V35 goes, I'm a bit skeptical either of these will actually happen. My assumption is that one of these is the rumored 4.0 TTV8, but I'm not 100% sure that engine will happen. The other engine could be a naturally aspirated engine, either a 5.0 V8 based on the 4.0 TTV8, or a 4.0 V6 based on the V35A. Either NA engine would be for the truck applications (5.0 for Tundra, 4.0 for 4Runner, Tacoma, Prado). I'm more inclined to think that both engines above the V35A are V8s though.

Is the G16E in the GR Yaris considered a Dynamic Force engine? Wiki has it listed separately, but then again, it is Wiki. If it is a Dynamic Force engine, then I guess G16E is the 2nd engine smaller than the M20A, along with the M15A. That would then leave us with three unknown engines.

 

[Will1991]

We know the European Corolla Cross debuted the new 5th generation hybrid system, here goes a small overview with the 2.0L engine:

Quite the improvement for the AWD hybrid system from TMC, 8 times the power and more than double torque availability!

A second generation UX can be so much better with this powertrain.

 

[NomadDan]

I find it interesting that the compression ratio and power output of the engine (not including electric motor) is different depending if it’s FWD or AWD. I don’t understand the benefit of that.

I don’t understand the math for “total system max power” on that chart. It says 197hp for both AWD and FWD, but shouldn’t the AWD with the additional 41hp motor have a higher total power? Either way, the math doesn’t seem to work out. I must be missing something.

 

[ssun30]

I find it interesting that the compression ratio and power output of the engine (not including electric motor) is different depending if it’s FWD or AWD. I don’t understand the benefit of that.

I don’t understand the math for “total system max power” on that chart. It says 197hp for both AWD and FWD, but shouldn’t the AWD with the additional 41hp motor have a higher total power? Either way, the math doesn’t seem to work out. I must be missing something.

In a PS hybrid, the total system power could be limited by MG2, battery or PCU.

1) In most cases, the battery is the limiting component. In this case total system power is the same for either FWD or AWD.

2) In PHV cases (Prius/RAV4/NX PHV), MG2 is the limiting component. In this case the front hybrid transaxle is saturated while the battery has spare power. Adding a rear motor with its own PCU (MG3) thus adds extra total system power. *Most people believe more powerful motor = more power hybrid, but this is rarely the case. Car makers always overbuild their motors since the rated sustained power output of motors is much lower than maximum power output (by over 50%)

3) In this case, PCU is the limiting component. Past Toyota E-Four products have separate PCUs for the front and rear. But in the new Corolla Cross Hybrid, there is one central PCU that manages power flow between MG1 and MG2/MG3. The total power flow is fixed but only distribution of that power is adjustable.

 

[Sulu]

I find it interesting that the compression ratio and power output of the engine (not including electric motor) is different depending if it’s FWD or AWD. I don’t understand the benefit of that.

...and the higher compressiion ratio produces less power. I wonder if the AWD model's engine runs on the Atkinson cycle but the FWD model does not.

I don’t understand the math for “total system max power” on that chart. It says 197hp for both AWD and FWD, but shouldn’t the AWD with the additional 41hp motor have a higher total power? Either way, the math doesn’t seem to work out. I must be missing something.

Peak power is not summative; you cannot simply add the peak power of the electric motor to the peak power of the combustion engine to get the total power.

That is because the peak power of the motor and the engine occur at different rpms -- motor power peaks at lower rpm than engine power peak.

 

[ssun30]

That is because the peak power of the motor and the engine occur at different rpms -- motor power peaks at lower rpm than engine power peak.

ICE and MG2 can actually peak at the same time because their rpms are partially decoupled. In Prius/Prius PHV/RAV4 PHV the ICE can saturate MG1 under heavy acceleration and the combined power from MG1 and HVB saturates MG2. In this case the full output potential is capped and could only be increased by adding E-Four.

 

[ssun30]

Correction: the diagram is incorrect. TNGA E-Fours all use centralized PCU to provide power to MG2 and MG3. Please ignore.

 

[NomadDan]

Thanks for the explanation there. Fascinating stuff! There’s a pretty impressive knowledge base on this forum. Thanks again.

 

[Will1991]

For the new L4A0 hybrid unit Toyota was able to create a simple hybrid module to apply between the current ICE and 10AT gearbox:

TMC choose to build it with a torque converter to improve offroading and towing capabilities.

In the Hybrid Module, there's a new clutch (K0) and the motor-generator:

It was said here before that TMC isn't going into the horsepower war but they will go into the torque war and they achieved quite the result:

Thanks to that K0 clucht, the system can be used in different ways:

With this system and also due to the new 10AT, TMC choose to improve both performance and fuel economy:

Another neat feature can be felt while towing.
When we're towing with a torque converter drivetrain, the way it works it can soften the vibration felt on the truck floor, but due to fuel efficient concerns, torque converters are now tipycally equiped with lock-up capabilities which makes you feel more vibration on the vehichle.

To improve confort, TMC also programed this drivetrain to use the motor-generator to lessen vehichle surge and vibrations.

 

[Will1991]

I don't remember who was, but someone mentioned around here that the new bz4x don't have a particularly short front end for a car that's been built in the new dedicated eTNGA.

It can be because of this:

TMC patented a new "hydrogen pack" with a skateboard design similar to (pretty much all) battery packs.

In the patent, TMC talks about a front mounted FC with a rear motor.

This to me shows TMC ability to deliver fast to market cars, both BEV's and FCEV's.

This would also solve Mirai's problem with poor interior space.

 

[nt01]

I don't remember who was, but someone mentioned around here that the new bz4x don't have a particularly short front end for a car that's been built in the new dedicated eTNGA.

It can be because of this:

TMC patented a new "hydrogen pack" with a skateboard design similar to (pretty much all) battery packs.

In the patent, TMC talks about a front mounted FC with a rear motor.

This to me shows TMC ability to deliver fast to market cars, both BEV's and FCEV's.

This would also solve Mirai's problem with poor interior space.

That's interesting, maybe we will see FC version of BEV from Toyota down the road?

 

[Levi]

That is going to be one expensive hydrogen pack, and know the "bottles" have a 10 year life cycle...

 

[LS500-18]

That is going to be one expensive hydrogen pack, and know the "bottles" have a 10 year life cycle...

Cheaper than a BEV battery pack. I hear $22K for a Tesla battery pack out of warranty...

 

[Ian Schmidt]

$22k *in* warranty too if something ancillary to the pack breaks, like a coolant line fitting.

 

[Will1991]

"Our" current Mirai have a 15-year H2 tank certification.

What happens then I don't know... Is recertification possible? Maybe...

 

[NXracer]

$22k *in* warranty too if something ancillary to the pack breaks, like a coolant line fitting.

Someone's a rich rebuilds fan I see lol

 

[Ali Manai]

Toyota to invest $383M to build 4-cylinder engine, parts

Toyota is preparing for what appears to be a new four-cylinder engine variant for traditional and hybridized powertrains. Plants in Alabama, Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee are slated to get the capital outlays.

www.autonews.com

 

[internalaudit]

Lexus engineering boss: 800-volt system done, electric is the future

More innovation, faster charging, and longer range are coming, but Lexus hints of a long-game approach, and different U.S. priorities, in rolling out EV tech.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[Motor]

Toyota Puts Invisible AI Eyes In North American Factories

Toyota Motors North America factory workers will be under the scrutiny of a combination of cameras and artificial intelligence following an announcement today of a deal between the automaker and Austin, Texas-based Invisible AI.

www.forbes.com

 

[CRSKTN]

Toyota Puts Invisible AI Eyes In North American Factories

Toyota Motors North America factory workers will be under the scrutiny of a combination of cameras and artificial intelligence following an announcement today of a deal between the automaker and Austin, Texas-based Invisible AI.

www.forbes.com

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