ssun30

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I wasn’t expecting this one:


Corolla Cross with H2 engine.
In their latest press release they mentioned the Corolla Cross will get the G16 hydrogen version.

Also Hydrogen GR Corolla gets liquid hydrogen. I can't believe they are serious about LH2 again...
I would not have expected any V6 in the RX since it seems Toyota/Lexus is ditching the V6 in all transverse configurations. I think there’s room in the lineup for a 2.8-3.0L TT V6 in TNGA-L platforms, as well as whatever TNGA platform underpins the next 4Runner/GX/Prado/Tacoma.

I also have a hard time seeing the TX powered solely by the T24, even if it’s a hybrid. A TNGA-L based TX with a TT V6 makes more sense to me.
The Volvo XC90 is powered solely by a 2.0T hybrid.
 

Will1991

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In their latest press release they mentioned the Corolla Cross will get the G16 hydrogen version.

Also Hydrogen GR Corolla gets liquid hydrogen. I can't believe they are serious about LH2 again...

If that thing gets a production version with the G16 and the UX doesn’t… It will show, again, how much TMC doesn’t want it…

Well, that seems to be a carbon fiber tank, to have LH2 you need to have a vacuum isolated tank and some kind of evaporator running with the engine coolant… LH2 and carbon fiber tanks will have major boil off issues…

On the plus side, it would have something like 2 times the range vs. 700bar

Long haul heavy duty transport should run on LH2 by 2027~2030 on Europe.
 

JustADude

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Longitudinal T24-FTS P2 hybrid system, rumored for next-gen Tacoma/4Runner/LCP/GX.

Would that system work with the GX crowd? The conservative tuning that Lexus's does not pay dividends the way it should even though the system would have higher output then the the 301/329 current?
The GX won't even get the 2.4, it will get the iforcemax but with the detuned v6 as top engine. But we only have 1 engine trademark so who knows.
 

JustADude

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I would not have expected any V6 in the RX since it seems Toyota/Lexus is ditching the V6 in all transverse configurations. I think there’s room in the lineup for a 2.8-3.0L TT V6 in TNGA-L platforms, as well as whatever TNGA platform underpins the next 4Runner/GX/Prado/Tacoma.

I also have a hard time seeing the TX powered solely by the T24, even if it’s a hybrid. A TNGA-L based TX with a TT V6 makes more sense to me.
367hp and 406lbft should easily move the TX with ease.
 

Sulu

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That P4 figure is a mistake, it is indeed a P3. What makes more sense is a FWD with an electric rear axle....
Otherwise known as a Through-The-Road (TTR) hybrid. PSA's (Peugeot and Citroën) HYbrid4 is such a system -- FWD with an added electric motor on the rear axle.

P3 in general is a very undesirable layout since the motor's torque is multiplied only by the final drive. But in P2 the motor's torque is multiplied by the transmission too. P4 also gets extra multiplication from the direct drive gear. As a result P3 is very weak compared to P2/4. The only advantage I can think of is it doesn't need transmission redesign (P2 transmission needs much stronger clutch pack/torque converter).
The P3 hybrid, with an electric motor on the output of the transmission, could use that motor to mask the jerk of transmission gear changes. The P3 should also have more efficient regeneration than the P2 because the deceleration force to the MG does not go through the reduction gearing of the transmission.
 

Levi

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I think GX 550 comes with detuned V35A only as GX 460 came with detuned (actually just "FE" with port injection only) and no other engine. T24A will be for Prado, which never got V8, only 4Runner had V8, so 4Runner TRD might get the same tune V35A as GX 550, the hybrid T24A 4Runner/Tacoma would be a niche in the lineup. But I do not understand why the F33A would come with hybrid, if the Landcruiser is not sold in Europe. It would make more sense for the Prado and Hilux that are sold in Europe and Australia to have a 4 cylinder hybrid diesel, I think it is better for its purpose than the hybrid turbo 4 petrol. Maybe the diesel 4 would need adblue and the whole thing would become just too complex.
 

JustADude

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I think GX 550 comes with detuned V35A only as GX 460 came with detuned (actually just "FE" with port injection only) and no other engine. T24A will be for Prado, which never got V8, only 4Runner had V8, so 4Runner TRD might get the same tune V35A as GX 550, the hybrid T24A 4Runner/Tacoma would be a niche in the lineup. But I do not understand why the F33A would come with hybrid, if the Landcruiser is not sold in Europe. It would make more sense for the Prado and Hilux that are sold in Europe and Australia to have a 4 cylinder hybrid diesel, I think it is better for its purpose than the hybrid turbo 4 petrol. Maybe the diesel 4 would need adblue and the whole thing would become just too complex.
Also we would see a GX650H or something with the detuned v6 with iforcemax powertrain since we know all models will have an "electrified" option, but we don't have any trademarks for any hybrid GX or LX, but we know they're coming. I don't think the taco/4runner will have a v6 option, as we see in tundra/sequoia TRD Pro comes in hybrid only, so I think we'll see t24 hybrid for TRD Pro.
 

NXracer

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Haha all of sudden every car magazine, Youtube Lexus/Toyota Channels have become very very interested in "interpreting" those Lexus/Toyota EV Day concept cars.....especially after "HQ confidential" when everyone with any common sense has been shouting from the tree tops that every single concept has a meaning.

I guess they handed out goodie bags filled with common sense during the media event to help calm the FUD thats been spreading on social media automotive section.
 

NXracer

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This is the LC namesake returning to the states. However it seems to be targeting the bronco "sport" crowd with alot of offroad tech.

I wonder whether Toyota will have enough of a flame suit on with the "UNIBODY IS INFERIOR TO BOF OFFROAD" crowd that squaks at every offroad trail...
 

ssun30

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In PodCast 30 a great point was brought up: there is currently a hole between the 350h and 450h+ powertrain. The 246hp 2.5L THS-large is inadequate for RX/Highlander/Sienna which are close to 2 tons. Currently there is a 265hp 400h+ system but that's FWD only and plug-in hybrid with low volume.

Also recently the 250h 2.0L THS-medium was updated from 178hp to 197hp with higher output ICE and batteries. What's interesting is only the FWD variant received the high output ICE while the AWD has the old ICE but larger E-Four motor. It's a natural step to combine the high output ICE with E-Four to create a 210-220hp 300h system for next-gen UX. Maybe that's the reason UX did not receive the new powertrain.

With this update the old 2.5L THS-medium is no longer needed, and cars that use it (Camry/RAV4/Harrier/ES) should upgrade to the 240hp 350h system for next generation. This leaves an opportunity to offer a 400h system for larger cars like RX/Highlander/Sienna/Crown and potentially a UX FSP. I think it makes sense to downsize the 500h single motor system with 2.0T S20-FTS engine and smaller E-Four motor instead of eAxle. Output will be down from 367hp/550N.m front/165N.m rear to 280hp/450N.m front/120N.m rear. Another possibility is 350h getting the eAxle and larger battery with similar output.

I think a new 2025 hybrid (transverse) lineup could be like this:

2.0L 250h FWD 197hp
2.0L 300h AWD 220hp
2.5L 350h FWD/AWD 245hp
2.0T 400h AWD 280hp
2.5L 400h+ FWD 270hp
2.5L 450h+ AWD 310hp
2.4T 500h AWD 370hp
2.4T 550h+ AWD 400hp
 

Will1991

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Also recently the 250h 2.0L THS-medium was updated from 178hp to 197hp with higher output ICE and batteries. What's interesting is only the FWD variant received the high output ICE while the AWD has the old ICE but larger E-Four motor. It's a natural step to combine the high output ICE with E-Four to create a 210-220hp 300h system for next-gen UX. Maybe that's the reason UX did not receive the new powertrain.

With this update the old 2.5L THS-medium is no longer needed, and cars that use it (Camry/RAV4/Harrier/ES) should upgrade to the 240hp 350h system for next generation. This leaves an opportunity to offer a 400h system for larger cars like RX/Highlander/Sienna/Crown and potentially a UX FSP.

If a 2UX does happens, my bet is on a BEV-only powertrain.

The 2023MY is the facelift so a 2UX is going to happen maybe by 2025 like a 2026MY, and with a 6-year life cycle it would mean it would be on sale until 2032… Considering Lexus is going BEV-only by 2030 in Europe, it must be BEV only.
 

qtb007

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In PodCast 30 a great point was brought up: there is currently a hole between the 350h and 450h+ powertrain. The 246hp 2.5L THS-large is inadequate for RX/Highlander/Sienna which are close to 2 tons. Currently there is a 265hp 400h+ system but that's FWD only and plug-in hybrid with low volume.

Also recently the 250h 2.0L THS-medium was updated from 178hp to 197hp with higher output ICE and batteries. What's interesting is only the FWD variant received the high output ICE while the AWD has the old ICE but larger E-Four motor. It's a natural step to combine the high output ICE with E-Four to create a 210-220hp 300h system for next-gen UX. Maybe that's the reason UX did not receive the new powertrain.

With this update the old 2.5L THS-medium is no longer needed, and cars that use it (Camry/RAV4/Harrier/ES) should upgrade to the 240hp 350h system for next generation. This leaves an opportunity to offer a 400h system for larger cars like RX/Highlander/Sienna/Crown and potentially a UX FSP. I think it makes sense to downsize the 500h single motor system with 2.0T S20-FTS engine and smaller E-Four motor instead of eAxle. Output will be down from 367hp/550N.m front/165N.m rear to 280hp/450N.m front/120N.m rear. Another possibility is 350h getting the eAxle and larger battery with similar output.

I think a new 2025 hybrid (transverse) lineup could be like this:

2.0L 250h FWD 197hp
2.0L 300h AWD 220hp
2.5L 350h FWD/AWD 245hp
2.0T 400h AWD 280hp
2.5L 400h+ FWD 270hp
2.5L 450h+ AWD 310hp
2.4T 500h AWD 370hp
2.4T 550h+ AWD 400hp
Wouldn't they be more likely to up the output of the 2.5L THS-large? As far as I'm aware, the A25 in the hybrid is still a lower output than the A25 in the non-hybrid. Do the higher output engine with fifth generation hybrid and we're at 270hp.

JMO, but the Highlander hybrid and the Sienna are fine with the current hybrid drivetrain as far as performance. The gas mileage is great and they felt no slower than my Corolla hatch 2.0L w/ 6MT out on the road. The NVH is the worst part about that pairing.
 

ssun30

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Wouldn't they be more likely to up the output of the 2.5L THS-large? As far as I'm aware, the A25 in the hybrid is still a lower output than the A25 in the non-hybrid. Do the higher output engine with fifth generation hybrid and we're at 270hp.

JMO, but the Highlander hybrid and the Sienna are fine with the current hybrid drivetrain as far as performance. The gas mileage is great and they felt no slower than my Corolla hatch 2.0L w/ 6MT out on the road. The NVH is the worst part about that pairing.
The bad NVH is the result of A25 being undersized for the application. It needs to work extra hard to drive a 2 ton vehicle. It needs to rev up to 4600rpm to reach peak torque.

In China GAC licensed the THS large system but replaced the ICE with a 2.0T, and it has better NVH thanks to broader torque curve.
 

larryren

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The bad NVH is the result of A25 being undersized for the application. It needs to work extra hard to drive a 2 ton vehicle. It needs to rev up to 4600rpm to reach peak torque.

In China GAC licensed the THS large system but replaced the ICE with a 2.0T, and it has better NVH thanks to broader torque curve.
Some rumor said Toyota own are interested the performance of GAC's 2.0T combine the P810 system. Maybe can getting some experience for homemade S20 Series pair with tradtional Power-split system?
BTW I have test drived GAC 2nd Gen. GS8 hybrid 2WD last weekend at local dealership.... It feel more powerful at low-mid speed range because that 2L turbo engine combined. And also better ride quality than NX, especially the suspension tuning....NX more harder than GS8.
(The Lexus dealership is right next door to GAC, so it have same test drive route can make me compare it)
Y352.jpg
 
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NXracer

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Some rumor said Toyota own are interested the performance of GAC's 2.0T combine the P810 system. Maybe can getting some experience for homemade S20 Series pair with tradtional Power-split system?
BTW I have test drived GAC 2nd Gen. GS8 hybrid 2WD last weekend at local dealership.... It feel more powerful at low-mid speed range because that 2L turbo engine combined. And also better ride quality than NX, especially the suspension tuning....NX more harder than GS8.
(The Lexus dealership is right next door to GAC, so it have same test drive route can make me compare it)
View attachment 6027

Is this made with in tangent with the palisade or telluride or just a "coincidence" of the styling cues?
 

larryren

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Is this made with in tangent with the palisade or telluride or just a "coincidence" of the styling cues?
Well~ I knew it have such viewing point. Back to 2016, at Chinese network it have such like"copy the Telluride concept" discussion etc.
But GAC did not receipt of lawyer's letter by Kia. Maybe because Kia doesn't sell Telluride in China?:unsure:
And Kia mass-production version seem lot more different than concept car.)


So GAC keep that styling style for 2nd Gen. GS8 and debuted last year.