Official Lexus Future Product & Powertrain Megathread

[maiaramdan]

So if I've been following this series of news and rumors correctly, then whatever future high performance car TMC will debut in the near future will have some form of hybridization before it becomes all electric. Though there's also a chance that something like the GT3 concept might forgo that role entirely and get the long-rumored TTV8 that's been in development since forever. Or both. Is that right?

In short, Yes you are correct 💯% of what they wanna say

 

[NXracer]

So if I've been following this series of news and rumors correctly, then whatever future high performance car TMC will debut in the near future will have some form of hybridization before it becomes all electric. Though there's also a chance that something like the GT3 concept might forgo that role entirely and get the long-rumored TTV8 that's been in development since forever. Or both. Is that right?

Idk about the TTV8. However think of the public guidance TMC has been pushing out there.

CY20 Toyota Public acknowledges SSB is 5 years away from mass production
CY21 Japan Carmags disclose rumored halo car development
CY22 They launch a GT3 concept vehicle.
CY22 Toyota states SSB will debut on a hybrid electric vehicle
CY25 Battery Production Plants are all coming online, 5 year renaissance plans last year, possible debut of this decade's lFA?

 

[ssun30]

Toyota patent on a (fake) manual transmission for EVs
https://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=OR&d=PG01&s1=20220041155&OS=20220041155&RS=20220041155

Also Aichi Steel (a TMC subsidiary) developed a new 50kW/1850N.m e-Axle using no Dysprosium (a critical REE for all PM motors) and revs up to 34k rpm allowing the size to be shrunk by 40%, to be used in future TMC vehicles.

It's about the same size as the current generation 5kW and new 30kW e-Axles found on TNGA-C AWD Hybrids.

 

[carguy420]

Toyota patent on a (fake) manual transmission for EVs
https://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=OR&d=PG01&s1=20220041155&OS=20220041155&RS=20220041155

Also Aichi Steel (a TMC subsidiary) developed a new 50kW/1850N.m e-Axle using no Dysprosium (a critical REE for all PM motors) and revs up to 34k rpm allowing the size to be shrunk by 40%, to be used in future TMC vehicles.

It's about the same size as the current generation 5kW and new 30kW e-Axles found on TNGA-C AWD Hybrids.
View attachment 5538

Toyota has been tinkering with the idea of an EV with a manual transmission for quite a while now, remember that SEV 2000GT a.k.a. the Crazy Car Project? I just realised it was led by Naohiko Saito, the chief engineer of the GR Yaris.

The less reliance on rare earth metals, the better, less need to deal with the people that are trying to monopolize the supply of rare earth metals.

 

[ssun30]

Toyota has been tinkering with the idea of an EV with a manual transmission for quite a while now, remember that SEV 2000GT a.k.a. the Crazy Car Project? I just realised it was led by Naohiko Saito, the chief engineer of the GR Yaris.

The less reliance on rare earth metals, the better, less need to deal with the people that are trying to monopolize the supply of rare earth metals.

They also claim the magnet is 90% reusable. It still uses REE just the "not so rare" type.

 

[carguy420]

They also claim the magnet is 90% reusable. It still uses REE just the "not so rare" type.

Oh, that is good.

 

[NXracer]

The Manual transmission is going to be useless especially in an EV. But I do see from a marketing perspective it may attract a pocket niche.

The new motor sounds mighty impressive.

 

[Levi]

As some that like driving manual (not from fun, but from control perspective), I am not interested in "manual" BEV. BEV on the contrary is very nice without gearbox, even better than CVT.

 

[Smychavo]

I'll say, manual gearbox for a bev sounds weird but one of those cool ideas I'd love to try. With that said I'd say that EVs are the absolutely perfect for luxury cars for a brand like Lexus. How they intend to spin this into something performance based besides 0-60 times is something I'm very interested in seeing them do.

 

[CRSKTN]

The Manual transmission is going to be useless especially in an EV. But I do see from a marketing perspective it may attract a pocket niche.

The new motor sounds mighty impressive.

Manual transmissions can help deliver torque across different speeds more efficiently when you’re restricted to using a single motor.

I mean like a real manual transmission hooked up to an electric motor. Not whatever software simulation discussed here.

 

[CRSKTN]

Reading this closer, this is the technology I talked about a while ago in that you could make an EV recreate the torque and power curve (and sound) if specific models throughout history.

 

[Sulu]

Manual transmissions can help deliver torque across different speeds more efficiently when you’re restricted to using a single motor.

I mean like a real manual transmission hooked up to an electric motor. Not whatever software simulation discussed here.

Multi-speed transmissions (geared correctly) can amplify torque at low gear and increase speed at high gear by reducing the speed of the motor.

Manually shifting can also hold your speed, which is useful in stop-and-go traffic to avoid constant hopping back and forth between the throttle and the brake. Modern automatic transmissions want to get to a higher gear as soon as possible but if you allow the car to automatically accelerate too quickly to allow the transmission into a high gear, you find yourself crowding the rear bumper of the car in front too soon, forcing you on the brake.

But I get the impression that this is but a toy from Toyota, allowing those who want both an EV and a (needless) manual transmission. With the EV's flat torque curve and maximum torque available immediately, a 2-speed (or at most 3-speed, I would think) transmission is enough, mainly to reduce motor speed at high road speeds.

 

[ssun30]

Like ICEs, electric machines also have efficiency sweet spots for different load and rpm. This is why on very high power applications (like Taycan) a 2-stage reduction gear helps balance performance and efficiency. Most mass market EVs don't benefit from having a 2-stage transmission because the added efficiency is rarely justified by the added weight/complexity/cost.

In the future the very high rotation speed (30k+rpm), low torque electric machines like the new eAxle shown above will become more common (lighter, more compact, less materials). These will operate at inefficiently high rpm for cruising and need an overdrive gear to reduce rpm to more efficient ranges.

But EVs won't need anything more than 2 speeds. This fake manual transmission still has a single reduction ratio, but the software limits torque at higher gears to imitate the effect of lower reduction ratio. There are actually practical benefits to this kind of torque limiter system: smoother torque delivery to make driving less jerky and reduce tire wear. An extra benefit is adjusting regen braking strength more directly.

 

[NXracer]

Manual transmissions can help deliver torque across different speeds more efficiently when you’re restricted to using a single motor.

I mean like a real manual transmission hooked up to an electric motor. Not whatever software simulation discussed here.

The version toyota patents is similar in design ethos of Manual shifting in Nissan CVTs, the illusion of control. Reduction gear boxes are yet to be seen from Toyota. We should see their clean sheet EV powertrain design in the upcoming RZ launching soon, with any changes from the soltera/BZ.

 

[maiaramdan]

I must admit it , this is may turn to be a great game changer for a lot of people wanna stick , count me one of them

 

[NXracer]

Anyone know why the 8AR-FTS was a one and done engine series?

 

[mediumhot]

Anyone know why the 8AR-FTS was a one and done engine series?

Don't want to be rude but it was way too pedestrian to be put inside a Lexus. It might be reliable and current owners could tell us that but GS200t had barely better performance than GS300h.

 

[NXracer]

NX350 for sure, but the NX250 motor is slower then the outgoing NX300?

2021: 235 HP/258 lb ft
2022: 203 horsepower and 184 lb. ft. of torque

 

[ssun30]

Not developing a new 2.0T compliance engine was a mistake.

The GAC GS8 (Highlander's Chinese sister model made by GAC) received the same hybrid system as the new Highlander but has a 2.0T engine. It received rave reviews. Much faster despite same power, almost same fuel efficiency, same NVH (quieter in some cases) at 3/4 the price. But I guess the 2.5NA has 'reliabity'.

 

[Ali Manai]

Or it could be toyota might add turbo to the m20 2.0 engine found in camry and corolla