Official 7th Generation ES Thread: Full Reveal on 4/25 in Beijing

[maiaramdan]

I think the new ES looks a lot cleaner then the LS. I can't wait to see the interior.

+1

The new LS styling never grow on me
I think it was supposed to be either LS+ or LF-FC

But not this

 

[meth.ix]

Honestly WTH is that trunk spoiler, so bulky and out of place.

This is a hybrid model, and like with the previous generation ES hybrid, Lexus attempts to make hybrids seem like they have better performance by giviing them a sporty body kit.

the side profile of the current-gen ES looks like an overweight pig when compared with the new model lol...

 

[GTG]

Looks very nice

 

[krew]

Comparing the New Lexus ES & Lexus LS Sedans

Count the differences.

View the original article post

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Dear god what is with those front overhangs?:weary_face: What an absolute mess, it's totally going to ruin the balance of the car.ensive:

HOWEVER, the profile of the new ES is genuinely stunning. There are no clues that makes me think that this is an ES except for that stupidly overbearing front overhang. Still, it is a lot leaner and looks so much more sleeker and muscular. Not bad.

 

[zeusus]

Dear god what is with those front overhangs?:weary_face: What an absolute mess, it's totally going to ruin the balance of the car.ensive:

I don't think its nearly as bad as you're blowing it out to be.

You don't see the "overhang" looking at the car from a human eye level perspective. You only see it when the photos are taken directly from the side from a toddler's point of view.

Thats why people always hate on cars when they see it from the new release photos but when they begin to see it in person, the design begins to "grow" on them.

Its very common.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I don't think its nearly as bad as you're blowing it out to be.

You don't see the "overhang" looking at the car from a human eye level perspective. You only see it when the photos are taken directly from the side from a toddler's point of view.

Thats why people always hate on cars when they see it from the new release photos but when they begin to see it in person, the design begins to "grow" on them.

Its very common.

I agree with your statement. However I can tell the difference between a hideously long overhang to something a lot more manageable. Its sister car, the Avalon, has much shorter overhangs. The Camry too, has massive overhangs, you even can see it in commercials.

I wish they were a lot shorter. It ruins balance for handling, and puts way too much stress on the front wheels. It's not like they will put a V8 or even the Twin-Turbo V6. This is why it's completely pointless to have large overhangs. Also, I am calling it right now, despite everything going to be better with this new ES, there will be many complaints about the stupid torque steer. 300+ horsepower is too much of a burden for those poor front wheels to take, and completely destroys the luxury driving impressions for the ES. Sure, it will become an order of magnitude sportier, but it will come up short in terms of luxury driving feel. The torque steer alone is enough to put off many customers. This is why I keep saying they need to switch to a RWD platform. Hell, even if they don't, a longitudinal FWD platform is much better than the transverse platform we see in the current car.

I am calling it right now, unless they don't put full attention to address this issue, then they're screwed. However on the bright side, there are generally no heavy hitting competitors for the ES, so if they actually release a new GS, they may shift to that car instead, simply because the platform is more superior for a luxury sedan. Or in the case of the new ES, a luxury (sports) sedan.

 

[ssun30]

I wish they were a lot shorter. It ruins balance for handling, and puts way too much stress on the front wheels. It's not like they will put a V8 or even the Twin-Turbo V6. This is why it's completely pointless to have large overhangs.

Very true. Such a long overhang is completely unneccesary and beats the primary advantage of a transverse platform: better space efficiency due to compact powertrain. Recent Lexus designs are heavily form over function, which I am not a big fan of. Even the GS has a completely non-longitudinal-RWD-looking overhang.

The torque steer alone is enough to put off many customers.

I am calling it right now, unless they don't put full attention to address this issue, then they're screwed.

These statements are rather exaggerated. Very few drivers in real world will actually drive the car hard enough to experience that torque steer; traction control and stability control will mostly keep it in check. It's like saying "power oversteer alone is enough to put off many customers" on a longitudinal RWD car.

Will a higher power ES work? We don't really know. But AWD does solve a lot of problems.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Very true. Such a long overhang is completely unneccesary and beats the primary advantage of a transverse platform: better space efficiency due to compact powertrain. Recent Lexus designs are heavily form over function, which I am not a big fan of. Even the GS has a completely non-longitudinal-RWD-looking overhang.




These statements are rather exaggerated. Very few drivers in real world will actually drive the car hard enough to experience that torque steer; traction control and stability control will mostly keep it in check. It's like saying "power oversteer alone is enough to put off many customers" on a longitudinal RWD car.

Will a higher power ES work? We don't really know. But AWD does solve a lot of problems.

I wish it was an exaggeration, because these are issues that reviewers and owners alike have reported from the 2018 Camry. I wouldn't waste my time here to spew anything but the truth here to be honest. Think of it like this. It will be the achilles heel for the new ES if they don't address the issue.

 

[Mr. Burns]

Comparing the New Lexus ES & Lexus LS Sedans

View the original article post

You can tell where they had to cut costs on the surfaces. But I don't see the point of releasing two very similar sedans in size and styling, with one twice the price of the other.

 

[Twiz]

Seeing the teaser video gives me a little bit of hope that they will not discontinue the GS. can't see the ES replacing the GS

 

[Twiz]

Seeing the teaser video gives me a little bit of hope that they will not discontinue the GS. can't see the ES replacing the GS

This is a hybrid model, and like with the previous generation ES hybrid, Lexus attempts to make hybrids seem like they have better performance by giviing them a sporty body kit.


the side profile of the current-gen ES looks like an overweight pig when compared with the new model lol...

Haha it so does

 

[Levi]

Very true. Such a long overhang is completely unneccesary and beats the primary advantage of a transverse platform: better space efficiency due to compact powertrain. Recent Lexus designs are heavily form over function, which I am not a big fan of. Even the GS has a completely non-longitudinal-RWD-looking overhang.

These statements are rather exaggerated. Very few drivers in real world will actually drive the car hard enough to experience that torque steer; traction control and stability control will mostly keep it in check. It's like saying "power oversteer alone is enough to put off many customers" on a longitudinal RWD car.

Will a higher power ES work? We don't really know. But AWD does solve a lot of problems.

FWD with long overhang does defeat the purpose of transverse. With most cars being 4 cylinders, the best layout would be longitudinal V4.

About exaggerating, the same could be said for interior "quality". Very few people in the w

 

[Madi]

It's stunning, now I can't wait to see the ALL-NEW GS >> No one comes and throw that rumor of discontinuing it, as I mentioned before the GS has a new generation on its way, but its not the global mid-size sedan anymore.

And there is no way the ES would come with an AWD system . It will be available only as FWD mid-size sedan .

I agree with your statement. However I can tell the difference between a hideously long overhang to something a lot more manageable. Its sister car, the Avalon, has much shorter overhangs. The Camry too, has massive overhangs, you even can see it in commercials.

I wish they were a lot shorter. It ruins balance for handling, and puts way too much stress on the front wheels. It's not like they will put a V8 or even the Twin-Turbo V6. This is why it's completely pointless to have large overhangs. Also, I am calling it right now, despite everything going to be better with this new ES, there will be many complaints about the stupid torque steer. 300+ horsepower is too much of a burden for those poor front wheels to take, and completely destroys the luxury driving impressions for the ES. Sure, it will become an order of magnitude sportier, but it will come up short in terms of luxury driving feel. The torque steer alone is enough to put off many customers. This is why I keep saying they need to switch to a RWD platform. Hell, even if they don't, a longitudinal FWD platform is much better than the transverse platform we see in the current car.

I am calling it right now, unless they don't put full attention to address this issue, then they're screwed. However on the bright side, there are generally no heavy hitting competitors for the ES, so if they actually release a new GS, they may shift to that car instead, simply because the platform is more superior for a luxury sedan. Or in the case of the new ES, a luxury (sports) sedan.

From an engineering point of view, it's not impossible to remove the torque steer from a +300 hp FWD car, here is an elaboration on this :


No torque steer at all in the fastest FWD car in the market .

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

And there is no way the ES would come with an AWD system . It will be available only as FWD mid-size sedan.

Why are you so convinced of this? Admittedly, you could be right. I just don't see ES becoming a credible GS replacement (especially in Europe) unless it offers an AWD option, though. And even if next week's Beijing 7ES launch is nothing but "regular" and hybrid FWD variants, I'll hold off on the pitchforks for a bit. It's possible that sportier AWD and F-Sport 7ES variants could be saved for a separate event or later launch.

 

[spwolf]

Why are you so convinced of this? Admittedly, you could be right. I just don't see ES becoming a credible GS replacement (especially in Europe) unless it offers an AWD option, though. And even if next week's Beijing 7ES launch is nothing but "regular" and hybrid FWD variants, I'll hold off on the pitchforks for a bit. It's possible that sportier AWD and F-Sport 7ES variants could be saved for a separate event or later launch.

Well, heh, lets put it this way - worldwide, Lexus needs ES to be AWD to compete with the germans.

I dont think it is replacement for GS in Europe anyway - very few people bought GS in Europe. But to compete with A6 for instance, they do need AWD. Same goes for Russia, one of their biggest markets as well as Japan - they all like AWD.

 

[spwolf]

I agree with your statement. However I can tell the difference between a hideously long overhang to something a lot more manageable. Its sister car, the Avalon, has much shorter overhangs. The Camry too, has massive overhangs, you even can see it in commercials.

I wish they were a lot shorter. It ruins balance for handling, and puts way too much stress on the front wheels. It's not like they will put a V8 or even the Twin-Turbo V6. This is why it's completely pointless to have large overhangs. Also, I am calling it right now, despite everything going to be better with this new ES, there will be many complaints about the stupid torque steer. 300+ horsepower is too much of a burden for those poor front wheels to take, and completely destroys the luxury driving impressions for the ES. Sure, it will become an order of magnitude sportier, but it will come up short in terms of luxury driving feel. The torque steer alone is enough to put off many customers. This is why I keep saying they need to switch to a RWD platform. Hell, even if they don't, a longitudinal FWD platform is much better than the transverse platform we see in the current car.

I am calling it right now, unless they don't put full attention to address this issue, then they're screwed. However on the bright side, there are generally no heavy hitting competitors for the ES, so if they actually release a new GS, they may shift to that car instead, simply because the platform is more superior for a luxury sedan. Or in the case of the new ES, a luxury (sports) sedan.

I dont see the big deal in overhang, with every new TNGA, they actually reduced them.

Point here is that engine sits in front of the axle, and not behind like in LS. Thus you have larger overhang, plus design wise, they are making front end lower which requires more space and to me it looks a lot better than 2" shorter overhangs in some cars that end up having tall like a brick front end.

For instance that S90 has short overhangs, but car in person does not look good at all, it has tall front end that looks like in SUV (and it looks more natural in V90 version). Back end also finishes tall, car looks frumpy (and rear light design kill it) and it has large rear overhang of course, so it looks completely unbalanced.

And since that long wheelbase is used for the cabin exclusively, and not for the engine, you will have much larger area in the back for the passengers.

As to the switch to the RWD, that makes no sense at all and no they are not screwed, it will become best selling Lexus sedan worldwide in the history of the brand.

 

[Gecko]

A while back, Lexus stated that the spindle requires more real estate on the front end of the car to design. Think about it... the hood slopes down to the front of the car and then they create the waterfall effect with the spindle, and then it generally juts out just towards the bottom of the bumper. This is very different and far more intricate from when we had smaller grills and bumpers that were more swept back.

Also, even if you look at RWD LS, Lexus simply does not care about front overhangs anymore. Look at UX and RX - both are terrible and quite foolish looking. FWD cars + spindle grill is a bad combination for design and Lexus has chosen form over function. It is what it is, unfortunately. It looks quite ridiculous.

With all of that said, I do not think the ES front overhang looks bad in these pics. In fact, it is quite similar to LS in that side-by-side photo. Part of that is because LS has a longer front overhang than it should for a RWD, longitudinal chassis with a V6... but here we are again at how the spindle impacts the design of the front end.

 

[ssun30]

I wish it was an exaggeration, because these are issues that reviewers and owners alike have reported from the 2018 Camry. I wouldn't waste my time here to spew anything but the truth here to be honest. Think of it like this. It will be the achilles heel for the new ES if they don't address the issue.

The point is they are by no means screwed by going transverse FWD. It will have close to zero impact on the financial side.

Lexus simply does not care about front overhangs anymore. Look at UX and RX - both are terrible and quite foolish looking. FWD cars + spindle grill is a bad combination for design and Lexus has chosen form over function. It is what it is, unfortunately. It looks quite ridiculous.

Well, at least we will have HUGE "frunks" when they go electric. What are we going do with so much luggage space? I guess it makes it possible to do long family road trips in the sedan!

 

[Gecko]

The point is they are by no means screwed by going transverse FWD. It will have close to zero impact on the financial side.

Exactly. This will be the most successful ES ever, without a doubt. It looks great overall and has a nice implementation of spindle + LED headlights vs. previous version where spindle was tacked on at the refresh.

Most of all, the addition of AWD is big, but addition of F-Sport is huge... HUGE. Remember when the internet said they didn't need to build an F Sport RX? Look at it now. This ES could sell 5-6k per month easily, even in a falling sedan market. I wonder if they will add ES 250 for US?