No V8 Engines for Future Lexus Models

[krew]

According to a new Mag-X report out of Japan, Toyota has cancelled all V8 engine development in favour of turbo V6s and electrified powertrains.
If true, this move throws the future of the Lexus F brand into doubt, as next-generation F models were believed to center around a 600+ horsepower twin-turbo V8. This engine was to power a LC coupe in this year’s 24 Hours of Nürburgring race before COVID shut everything down.

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[meth.ix]

I'm praying this isnt true 😞

 

[mikeavelli]

I just can’t right now....

 

[GuoxJason]

Well, fine, then... Haha 😢😭😭

 

[Will1991]

If this is true, Lexus is starting to show some bad decisions IMO...

Lately, they’ve spend a lot of R&D for nothing:
-> Lexus GS F, rumored to have been turned into the Mirai
-> Lexus LC F, rumored to have been canceled in a very late (almost production ready) date
-> TTV8, rumored to have been canceled after being ready to be raced

It’s almost as they’re trying Lexus to financially fail... I’m sure those projects weren’t cheap...

 

[Berto3818]

This was the reason why the LCF was cancelled because they knew they was going to cancel the motor.

 

[Hamed Al Ketbi]

If this is true, I’m sorry Lexus will go down really badly. Since all competitors already have been using 4.0 Twin Turbo V8s for a while.

That would be the worst decision Lexus take. All my excitement for Lexus went down. I was very much waiting for the LC F, LS F and LQ F. Even if it’s postponed, the competitors will be already levels higher. As usual Lexus is behind :/

 

[mordecai]

Live from Lexus HQ:

 

[Øystein]

This is probably the best decision made by Lexus in a while. Seems like they are finally beginning to acknowledge where the automobile industry is heading. In my opinion, the decision is way overdue, and critical for the brands survival. Hopefully, it wont be too long before we start seeing some proper electric models from Lexus (other than the UX300h), and electric performance vehicles as well.

 

[Gecko]

Live from Lexus HQ:

Lexus is a mix of that and this:

 

[James]

Anyone know how accurate Mag X is normally with their reporting on Lexus?

 

[Gecko]

Anyone know how accurate Mag X is normally with their reporting on Lexus?

My recollection is ~90%.

 

[GoHuskers]

Why would people say this is the end for Lexus Performance sub-brand? Is no manual transmission the end? Would you like Tesla's performance with Lexus's reliability? Would you like Taycan's performance and many other electric cars/trucks/SUVs' performance and efficiency with Lexus's liability and attention to details?

For me I welcome the change - bring some electrified vehicles to the tables and be the best while you're at it.

 

[Gecko]

First, this rumor was reported here ~2 weeks ago in the powertrain thread... keep that in mind. C&D is rehashing that same information.

I know some of what I've posted over the last 5 years has seemed negative and downtrodden on Lexus, but this is another one where I hate to say I was right. Rumors of a TT V8 started in 2007 directly from Mark Templin and the brand took way too long to make it a reality, so now it's stillborn. Something was clearly wrong internally - most likely a lack of vision and commitment resulting in continual delays and then losing the business case.

LS has already been a failure... what does no V8 mean for the LC? TT V6 or hybrid V6 in a grand touring coupe? No.

What about for the next LX in markets like USA, Russia and UAE that like their V8s? Lincoln has had a 450hp TT V6 since 2017 and Lexus thinks they're going to drop a 420hp one for 2022 and make waves? Range Rover, Mercedes and BMW all offer V8s in their flagship SUVs. Rumors of LX F and probably LX 600 are now dead.

LF-1, if it happens, is going to come with 420hp as the top engine - and it'll probably weigh 5,500 lbs? Yikes. Overweight GA-L with V35A-FTS has not been a great combination for the LS, hard to see it being any better for an LS SUV.

There is no real case to keep the F brand now either.

I'm not going to rehash all of Lexus' failures over the last decade, but I think a lot of people were willing to write them off as a transitional period while pinning their hopes on flagship F products (LC F) and this unicorn turbo V8 to turn a new page. Now those things are gone. A lot of these errors would be understandable if we had some sort of future brand playbook or technology showcase that showed Lexus was going all-in on hybrids or had awesome next-level battery tech. We've seen nothing. Toyota is aiming for solid state batteries around 2025, and with COVID, I'd assume at least a year delay, if not more. So what exactly is Lexus going to do for the next 6 years? And that assumes they'll even get access before Toyota, which is unlikely because Toyota has been given access to the best of everything years before Lexus in the TNGA era.

From the sidelines and as a business case, it's very hard to justify and understand what has - or hasn't - happened at Lexus over the last 10 years. And it seemingly keeps getting worse.

 

[James]

First, this rumor was reported here ~2 weeks ago in the powertrain thread... keep that in mind. C&D is rehashing that same information.

I know some of what I've posted over the last 5 years has seemed negative and downtrodden on Lexus, but this is another one where I hate to say I was right. Rumors of a TT V8 started in 2007 directly from Mark Templin and the brand took way too long to make it a reality, so now it's stillborn. Something was clearly wrong internally - most likely a lack of vision and commitment resulting in continual delays and then losing the business case.

LS has already been a failure... what does no V8 mean for the LC? TT V6 or hybrid V6 in a grand touring coupe? No.

What about for the next LX in markets like USA, Russia and UAE that like their V8s? Lincoln has had a 450hp TT V6 since 2017 and Lexus thinks they're going to drop a 420hp one for 2022 and make waves? Range Rover, Mercedes and BMW all offer V8s in their flagship SUVs. Rumors of LX F and probably LX 600 are now dead.

LF-1, if it happens, is going to come with 420hp as the top engine - and it'll probably weigh 5,500 lbs? Yikes. Overweight GA-L with V35A-FTS has not been a great combination for the LS, hard to see it being any better for an LS SUV.

There is no real case to keep the F brand now either.

I'm not going to rehash all of Lexus' failures over the last decade, but I think a lot of people were willing to write them off as a transitional period while pinning their hopes on flagship F products (LC F) and this unicorn turbo V8 to turn a new page. Now those things are gone. A lot of these errors would be understandable if we had some sort of future brand playbook or technology showcase that showed Lexus was going all-in on hybrids or had awesome next-level battery tech. We've seen nothing. Toyota is aiming for solid state batteries around 2025, and with COVID, I'd assume at least a year delay, if not more. So what exactly is Lexus going to do for the next 6 years? And that assumes they'll even get access before Toyota, which is unlikely because Toyota has been given access to the best of everything years before Lexus in the TNGA era.

From the sidelines and as a business case, it's very hard to justify and understand what has - or hasn't - happened at Lexus over the last 10 years. And it seemingly keeps getting worse.

Do we get in trouble for swearing on this site? I don't know where to begin. I read this at 4:30 this morning and thought I was waking up from a bad dream I had to read it again. I'm just baffled with all of this. I have been a die hard fan of Lexus since my parents got an RX in 2004 and then my dad got an ES in 2006. They were never the "most" fun to drive but they did so many things right.

I love my wife's NX (wish it had more power...) and when I was able to get my own Lexus GS in 2017 I couldn't believe I had done it. I was in my 20s and was thinking what a great start to me owning Lexus products. A GS 350 F Sport that while didn't have the power as some of the competition or the updated technology but was and is still a hell of a car. Also, at the time there was always the GSF that maybe just one day that could be my next car that once again doesn't have all the power but damn that V8 is worth it. Now it's 2020. GS is dead. IS's update was meh at best. ES still has no AWD. Now, good timing is that I probably need a bigger car ie an SUV so it's okay right just move to Lexus SUVs instead...GX and LX are old as f*** and the rumored LF1 that was going to be this LS/LC SUV is no where in site. RX while it is a great car is just not enough for me. TTV8 is now dead so any hope of one day owning a LSF, LCF, or LF1 F is also dead. I get that most of us are never going to be able to afford one of those TTV8s and hell I might even be one of them but if you want to remain loyal to a brand for 10-20-30 years you want to see that one day hell maybe I could own that R8 or i8.

I'm truly at a loss how really anyone goes and leases a Lexus right now and this is coming from someone who would fight to the death for them. If you buy a Lexus and will have it 10 plus years I still think there is no better brand for longevity and reliability purposes but excitement from me in this brand is close to zero. 2020 is a s*** year for everyone and can excuse Lexus for that as well but 2021 if we don't have just major positive news on new products and engines it might be time to switch and once you switch you might never come back...

Lastly, does Lexus management read our site at all? Cause coming from an extremely loyal customer of yours what you have done product line has been f****** bulls*** and disgraceful for a company that was as great as yours. I hope someone can pin this on me next year when we have all these new products but as much as I tell Gecko he makes me sad with his comments all his comments seem to come true so instead of getting my hopes up maybe I should just stop looking at your Lexus.

ugh sorry everyone for the rant just beyond pissed at this news from Lexus and continued failure of coming out with new and exciting products.

12 f****** years of developing an engine and you don't come out with it what a waste of time, energy, and above all else hopes and dreams of your loyal fan base. Creators of the LFA and LC can't make a TTV8 wtf...

 

[Berto3818]

i personally dont care about a 8 cylinder. I'm still going to buy one regardless because i dont need all that speed anyway. Fact is times are changing. But the fact is I wont stop being loyal just because they arent coming out with a TTV8.

 

[Lexus Jack]

Do we get in trouble for swearing on this site? I don't know where to begin. I read this at 4:30 this morning and thought I was waking up from a bad dream I had to read it again. I'm just baffled with all of this. I have been a die hard fan of Lexus since my parents got an RX in 2004 and then my dad got an ES in 2006. They were never the "most" fun to drive but they did so many things right.

I love my wife's NX (wish it had more power...) and when I was able to get my own Lexus GS in 2017 I couldn't believe I had done it. I was in my 20s and was thinking what a great start to me owning Lexus products. A GS 350 F Sport that while didn't have the power as some of the competition or the updated technology but was and is still a hell of a car. Also, at the time there was always the GSF that maybe just one day that could be my next car that once again doesn't have all the power but damn that V8 is worth it. Now it's 2020. GS is dead. IS's update was meh at best. ES still has no AWD. Now, good timing is that I probably need a bigger car ie an SUV so it's okay right just move to Lexus SUVs instead...GX and LX are old as f*** and the rumored LF1 that was going to be this LS/LC SUV is no where in site. RX while it is a great car is just not enough for me. TTV8 is now dead so any hope of one day owning a LSF, LCF, or LF1 F is also dead. I get that most of us are never going to be able to afford one of those TTV8s and hell I might even be one of them but if you want to remain loyal to a brand for 10-20-30 years you want to see that one day hell maybe I could own that R8 or i8.

I'm truly at a loss how really anyone goes and leases a Lexus right now and this is coming from someone who would fight to the death for them. If you buy a Lexus and will have it 10 plus years I still think there is no better brand for longevity and reliability purposes but excitement from me in this brand is close to zero. 2020 is a s*** year for everyone and can excuse Lexus for that as well but 2021 if we don't have just major positive news on new products and engines it might be time to switch and once you switch you might never come back...

Lastly, does Lexus management read our site at all? Cause coming from an extremely loyal customer of yours what you have done product line has been f****** bulls*** and disgraceful for a company that was as great as yours. I hope someone can pin this on me next year when we have all these new products but as much as I tell Gecko he makes me sad with his comments all his comments seem to come true so instead of getting my hopes up maybe I should just stop looking at your Lexus.

ugh sorry everyone for the rant just beyond pissed at this news from Lexus and continued failure of coming out with new and exciting products.

12 f****** years of developing an engine and you don't come out with it what a waste of time, energy, and above all else hopes and dreams of your loyal fan base. Creators of the LFA and LC can't make a TTV8 wtf...

My thoughts exactly!!!

What happened to the company that had the balls to make the LFA?? If you don't make exciting products that can compete with and beat your competition, they will beat you. Lexus was that company that built products that changed the industry. Now they are playing catch-up to the traditional Luxury brands and hoping to fight off the new breed of Luxury brands (I'm talking about you, Hyundai!). But with a boring product line, we are where the Germans were in the late 80's thinking we are doing just fine. Stop fooling yourself!

Lexus can build great products, exciting products, with Lexus quality. Someone at Lexus just thinks they can't sell it. Not sure if it's the bean counters, upper management or marketing, but they have to take their heads out of their rear ends and and start getting serious about competing in this cut throat Luxury market. Can you imagine exciting cars with Lexus quality and Lexus cost of ownership? Ask anyone who has owned an AMG or a M product that took the new car depreciation on them and paid for their cost of maintenance and break downs, if they can have those exciting performance and looks with Lexus quality and low cost of maintenance. Only if Lexus cars were more exciting.... Just build them!

"If you think you can't, you won't...
If you think you can, you will!
We can, we will."

I wish to see Lexus back on top for sales and excitement.

 

[Rydo]

I would happily kill the V8 in return for a 3-year product cycle.

Lexus has the audacity to sell the dinosaur CT in Europe, have they even sen MBUX in the A-Class? LX and GX are awful cars - lipstick on pigs doesn't even cover it. RX has an old interior design. It's all a big mess.

 

[spwolf]

...

What about for the next LX in markets like USA, Russia and UAE that like their V8s? Lincoln has had a 450hp TT V6 since 2017 and Lexus thinks they're going to drop a 420hp one for 2022 and make waves? Range Rover, Mercedes and BMW all offer V8s in their flagship SUVs. Rumors of LX F and probably LX 600 are now dead.

...

A lot of these errors would be understandable if we had some sort of future brand playbook or technology showcase that showed Lexus was going all-in on hybrids or had awesome next-level battery tech. We've seen nothing. Toyota is aiming for solid state batteries around 2025, and with COVID, I'd assume at least a year delay, if not more. So what exactly is Lexus going to do for the next 6 years? And that assumes they'll even get access before Toyota, which is unlikely because Toyota has been given access to the best of everything years before Lexus in the TNGA era.

a. As to the LX, I see V6tt as an upgrade to UR V8 - it is going to be both faster and economical in every way possible.
b. Lexus is already going all-in-hybrids. And I do not believe they will be basing their next products only on new battery tech.

I think everyone will be disappointed by how classically Toyota will their first SSB be.

 

[Gecko]

a. As to the LX, I see V6tt as an upgrade to UR V8 - it is going to be both faster and economical in every way possible.
b. Lexus is already going all-in-hybrids. And I do not believe they will be basing their next products only on new battery tech.

I think everyone will be disappointed by how classically Toyota will their first SSB be.

I think the V35A-FTS is a good replacement for the UR V8, an engine that launched in 2006. V35A-FTS is real world competitive with the turbo 6 cyl motors from BMW, Mercedes and Audi but certainly not their current V8s. The problem is that Lexus seems to think the V35A-FTS - at least in it's existing tune - is a replacement for a modern V8 engine. It is absolutely, unequivocally not that -- at all.

Not having a competitive flagship powertrain would be ok if Lexus didn't sell extremely heavy, expensive flagship products like LX, LS and LC - and maybe LF-1 - where the competition offers either more powerful turbo 6cylinders or modern turbo V8s. This is where Lexus has failed, and if these rumors are true - which I believe they are - Lexus will continue to fail miserably.