No V8 Engines for Future Lexus Models

[F1 Silver Arrows]

This doesn't sound like something Lexus would do though. The TTV8 was essentially finished in the LC F racecar. If they were to actually have the balls to do that then they're truly idiots.

It's like they forgot that they could amortize the costs of that engine by putting it in multiple Toyota and Lexus vehicles. Meh. If this is true, then I really don't care about Lexus anymore. After the current GS F, LC500/LC C, and LS500 are gone then they have nothing of value lol. It's also pretty much a given that nothing exciting or valuable will come out in the near future so for that reason I'm outta here.

This brand sucks a**. Cya never (unless some miracle happens but I gave up on that too).

 

[James]

i personally dont care about a 8 cylinder. I'm still going to buy one regardless because i dont need all that speed anyway. Fact is times are changing. But the fact is I wont stop being loyal just because they arent coming out with a TTV8.

I understand what you are saying that not everyone wants the TTV8 but look at this way in what segment is Lexus now better than or equal to the competition?

UX- Probably similar to the competition sorry don't know much about this segment at all as all the SUV's are too bloody small
NX- Behind as of now but I am super excited for the update whenever it comes and should be a great 2nd generation model from all reports. But also no higher performance one at all when there is from competition.
RX- the Lexus "standard" but still same V6 from what late 2000's? We have an RXL but no higher engine. Hybrid is legit.
GX- old as f*** new generation is what 3 years out?
LX- old as f*** new generation maybe next year? This compared to the X7 is a joke.
LF1- two years late.
IS- new "refresh" outside looks great interior is same as 5 years ago and engine is old again.
ES- another bread and butter for Lexus and really no complaints besides lack of AWD.
GS- dead...
LS- lack of any V8 is crazy to not have for this segment. Besides price this has nothing to truly offer the higher end German competition.
RC- terrible engine choices between RC and RCF. Something in the middle should be there. Updated RCF they did do a great job but engine is behind competition.
LC- ugh the LC...what a beautiful car. Put that car next to anything and by looks alone can stand next to any other car you want to put next to it. But under the hood against the best of the best it is so far behind it's not funny. And to not have an option is one again ridiculous. LCC once again looks alone are fine but under the hood just not same (and not bashing the V8 that is in there but next to a TTV8 just not the same).

It's not just the TTV8 that made me come out pissed off. It's the complete lack of new products or truly updated models that is appalling. Was my GS the best pick for the money at the time maybe maybe not? But it being my first Lexus it was going to be extremely hard to go somewhere else as I had dreamed about my own for years and years. But if I'm going to dish out 50k,60k, 70k, and even up on a new car and this is what Lexus brings to table compared to the competition how do stay loyal? I told someone in my office to get the LX and he's like wow pretty good deal for 100k car and then was like but yeah look at the interior. I'll do get a new Denali instead. Like wtf how is Lexus losing to a fuc**** Denali??

I don't know if you have read any of my previous posts but I am extremely loyal to Lexus and hope to the lord above that they come out with new products here soon, but right now I'm starting to feel like a sports fan of a team where the owner and players don't care and don't try. At least in sports you can get away with just wasting your time and not go to events but here you're paying with your pocket books. Here's to 2021 and an LX or LF1...

 

[yiantony]

When I saw the new IS and new GX being built totally based on the old platform, I had the same feeling. They've been doing nothing, or plenty of things but never really finalized their plan. When we look into the future and see what we can expect from Lexus, I am hardly excited. If all the rumors are true, there would be no high-performance model in the near future. Existing NA V8 won't compete and there is no product or even rumors for high-performance electric cars. Considering how long Lexus needs for "transition", that almost guarantees no high-performance car before 2025. A global luxury car brand without the top performance model available? That sounds really sad, or unreal to me. LS is not much a success, and with its recent refresh, it's guaranteed to be at least another 3 years of no success. LX flagship is long due for an update, and we've heard no exciting news. I will definitely not be surprised if they push a GX-like update to LX, and hoping the old money to stick with it. Don't forget that LC is also not new. Lexus is quickly losing its momentum in its top-tier models. In the next 2 to 3 years, this brand will leave its buyers no choice for anything fresh. All of its so-called performance models are with around 4.5 0-60 mph and no future plan. GS F is dead and no refresh since 2016. Its center console is unbelievably outdated (I own one) and no plan to even update it. RC F gets a facelift but that's barely it. It's still the same 2015 car essentially and people are tired of its interior already, which is no different from the 2013 IS. LC is now 3 years old with no plan for a refresh and an ancient engine with beautiful sound but no real power (I like the sound but it really needs to be faster).

For electric cars, do they really have anything ready? Don't fool me with "electrified" hybrid car. Full electric model in low end with simple replacement of battery will not attract buyers. People do not need a full-ev NX. Not the way to go. The best selling electric car now comes with the fancy center console and highly automated integrated system that works with your phone and internet. Lexus doesn't have the experience to make this good. Any Lexus drivers know how out-dated their system is and how impossible that Lexus will be pushing any updates to them.

As to myself, I can't find anything particularly attractive to me to replace my 3rd gen IS and GSF. The only thing excites me now is LC, but it's getting old quickly. Tesla is rumored to refresh their line-up. It will be doom day for Lexus if Lexus EVs are out with the existing models look and by then Tesla has already refreshed their model 3/Y.

First, this rumor was reported here ~2 weeks ago in the powertrain thread... keep that in mind. C&D is rehashing that same information.

I know some of what I've posted over the last 5 years has seemed negative and downtrodden on Lexus, but this is another one where I hate to say I was right. Rumors of a TT V8 started in 2007 directly from Mark Templin and the brand took way too long to make it a reality, so now it's stillborn. Something was clearly wrong internally - most likely a lack of vision and commitment resulting in continual delays and then losing the business case.

LS has already been a failure... what does no V8 mean for the LC? TT V6 or hybrid V6 in a grand touring coupe? No.

What about for the next LX in markets like USA, Russia and UAE that like their V8s? Lincoln has had a 450hp TT V6 since 2017 and Lexus thinks they're going to drop a 420hp one for 2022 and make waves? Range Rover, Mercedes and BMW all offer V8s in their flagship SUVs. Rumors of LX F and probably LX 600 are now dead.

LF-1, if it happens, is going to come with 420hp as the top engine - and it'll probably weigh 5,500 lbs? Yikes. Overweight GA-L with V35A-FTS has not been a great combination for the LS, hard to see it being any better for an LS SUV.

There is no real case to keep the F brand now either.

I'm not going to rehash all of Lexus' failures over the last decade, but I think a lot of people were willing to write them off as a transitional period while pinning their hopes on flagship F products (LC F) and this unicorn turbo V8 to turn a new page. Now those things are gone. A lot of these errors would be understandable if we had some sort of future brand playbook or technology showcase that showed Lexus was going all-in on hybrids or had awesome next-level battery tech. We've seen nothing. Toyota is aiming for solid state batteries around 2025, and with COVID, I'd assume at least a year delay, if not more. So what exactly is Lexus going to do for the next 6 years? And that assumes they'll even get access before Toyota, which is unlikely because Toyota has been given access to the best of everything years before Lexus in the TNGA era.

From the sidelines and as a business case, it's very hard to justify and understand what has - or hasn't - happened at Lexus over the last 10 years. And it seemingly keeps getting worse.

 

[mediumhot]

Unfortunately post 2000 Lexus powertrain success had only happened once it was aligned with Toyota's own interest. When Toyota was into big NA engines because they could benefit Toyota's products Lexus products did good too. Today Toyota is not interested in turbocharging anything other than three cylinders and Lexus is in big trouble cause it can't keep up by putting in NA 2.5 four banger. Simply put, Lexus despite being 30 years old still hasn't become an independent adult and now it's rapidly regressing to Toyota+ product portfolio. It will take a good old two product cycles for Lexus to put itself back on track if they start doing it right now.

Taking 13 years to develop new gen pedestrian V8 equals to two generations of Formula 1 engine development.

 

[carguy420]

I thought mag x frequently posts clickbait B.S. to try to "one up" Best Car.

 

[Berto3818]

I understand what you are saying that not everyone wants the TTV8 but look at this way in what segment is Lexus now better than or equal to the competition?

UX- Probably similar to the competition sorry don't know much about this segment at all as all the SUV's are too bloody small
NX- Behind as of now but I am super excited for the update whenever it comes and should be a great 2nd generation model from all reports. But also no higher performance one at all when there is from competition.
RX- the Lexus "standard" but still same V6 from what late 2000's? We have an RXL but no higher engine. Hybrid is legit.
GX- old as f*** new generation is what 3 years out?
LX- old as f*** new generation maybe next year? This compared to the X7 is a joke.
LF1- two years late.
IS- new "refresh" outside looks great interior is same as 5 years ago and engine is old again.
ES- another bread and butter for Lexus and really no complaints besides lack of AWD.
GS- dead...
LS- lack of any V8 is crazy to not have for this segment. Besides price this has nothing to truly offer the higher end German competition.
RC- terrible engine choices between RC and RCF. Something in the middle should be there. Updated RCF they did do a great job but engine is behind competition.
LC- ugh the LC...what a beautiful car. Put that car next to anything and by looks alone can stand next to any other car you want to put next to it. But under the hood against the best of the best it is so far behind it's not funny. And to not have an option is one again ridiculous. LCC once again looks alone are fine but under the hood just not same (and not bashing the V8 that is in there but next to a TTV8 just not the same).

It's not just the TTV8 that made me come out pissed off. It's the complete lack of new products or truly updated models that is appalling. Was my GS the best pick for the money at the time maybe maybe not? But it being my first Lexus it was going to be extremely hard to go somewhere else as I had dreamed about my own for years and years. But if I'm going to dish out 50k,60k, 70k, and even up on a new car and this is what Lexus brings to table compared to the competition how do stay loyal? I told someone in my office to get the LX and he's like wow pretty good deal for 100k car and then was like but yeah look at the interior. I'll do get a new Denali instead. Like wtf how is Lexus losing to a fuc**** Denali??

@James Evening Sir I appreciate you taking the time responding to my message. You put it into context and make a compelling argument as to why you think and feel the way you do. If the TTV8 was done then why didnt they just finish it out and then use it later? You break down of each model and what they are lacking is true also. They need to redo engines and make more powerful ones. I agree with you with how you framed this.

 

[mikeavelli]

If this is dead that means the F brand is dead. The F brand was to be V-8 product cars only.

Every Lexus in recent memory I’ve owned is a V-8. The first gen GS450h at the time I had was a suitable V-8 substitute. The last generation GS 450h wasn’t given a chance. It was special order only and hp didn’t jump but MPG did. For me it was no longer a suitable V-8 substitute.

If we are turning to tt V-6 well they need to be best in class power and MPG. They need to shake things up. I’m in a world where a Lincoln let alone Porsche etc have tt V-6 that makes much more power. Let’s not even mention the GT-R or even NSX.

Moving to the NSX, great car but have you heard it? It sounds like a goat gasping for air. Part of the reason it doesn’t sell, it doesn’t sound good at all. There is NOTHING like a proper V-8 sound.

Sigh

Finally imagine, I bought a outpowered and pretty outdated LS 460 F-Sport but it having even an old V-8 was a big selling point. Today the LS not offering a V-8 even as an option has killed that car. It doesn’t have my interest. It should. I don’t know anyone that talks about it or considers it. It is out the conversation without a V-8. It’s stunning with the refresh the 5.0 wasn’t added. It would have immediately helped sales. Such a shame because I think it’s a pretty good car.

I thought mag x frequently posts clickbait B.S. to try to "one up" Best Car.

No they are usually pretty accurate

 

[Alshamsi]

a. As to the LX, I see V6tt as an upgrade to UR V8 - it is going to be both faster and economical in every way possible.
b. Lexus is already going all-in-hybrids. And I do not believe they will be basing their next products only on new battery tech.

I think everyone will be disappointed by how classically Toyota will their first SSB be.

Their Hybrids aren't even as powerful as their petrol equivalents.
Yes, a lot of people care about power and acceleration, don't deny that.
All of their hybrids are simply boring as hell. Only targeting economy and no driving experience at all.

 

[spwolf]

I think the V35A-FTS is a good replacement for the UR V8, an engine that launched in 2006. V35A-FTS is real world competitive with the turbo 6 cyl motors from BMW, Mercedes and Audi but certainly not their current V8s. The problem is that Lexus seems to think the V35A-FTS - at least in it's existing tune - is a replacement for a modern V8 engine. It is absolutely, unequivocally not that -- at all.

Not having a competitive flagship powertrain would be ok if Lexus didn't sell extremely heavy, expensive flagship products like LX, LS and LC - and maybe LF-1 - where the competition offers either more powerful turbo 6cylinders or modern turbo V8s. This is where Lexus has failed, and if these rumors are true - which I believe they are - Lexus will continue to fail miserably.

I didnt say that they should not do a flasghip V8 .

I do think they need PR powertrains, ie flagship powertrains that will not sell a lot, but will give prestige and value to the brand. For US, Russia, and just maybe GCC/China, that would be V8tt.

For rest of the world, it would be some kind of PHEV right now with sub 4s 0-100kmh.

 

[ssun30]

It could be worse: imagine this rumor was wrong, but LC-F still gets cancelled, then Toyota drop that engine in the Land Cruiser or a one-off Century GRMN, but nope Lexus isn't allowed to have it 🤣

I'm equally disappointed despite I have no interest in a dying breed of car. The LC-F should have been cancelled long ago and a complete rethinking of the F-brand was required. But instead they were stuck with indecisions and fell further into the sunk cost fallacy. The most painful thing is having all that sunk cost and realize it's a bad idea when the project is almost done.

No the LC-F will not motivate any enthusiast. It will be overpowered by competition easily. The media will trash on it being 2 tons heavy and Doug Demuro will make a video titled 'this is the 600hp Lexus nobody is going to buy' and indeed it will be something nobody will buy because badge snobbery. It's just the sad truth. Not cancelling it earlier and start from scratch to make something truly groundbreaking is the problem here. Eight cylinders or six, runs on gasoline or hydrogen or electrons, it doesn't matter. They just need to get something done. They already have a 1000hp V6 powertrain, use it.

It's hard to get motivated about making an exciting super car when the most expensive thing you sell is a $350k 160hp rebadged minivan. They are drowning themselves with their own success.

 

[mikeavelli]

It could be worse: imagine this rumor was wrong, but LC-F still gets cancelled, then Toyota drop that engine in the Land Cruiser or a one-off Century GRMN, but nope Lexus isn't allowed to have it 🤣

I'm equally disappointed despite I have no interest in a dying breed of car. The LC-F should have been cancelled long ago and a complete rethinking of the F-brand was required. But instead they were stuck with indecisions and fell further into the sunk cost fallacy. The most painful thing is having all that sunk cost and realize it's a bad idea when the project is almost done.

No the LC-F will not motivate any enthusiast. It will be overpowered by competition easily. The media will trash on it being 2 tons heavy and Doug Demuro will make a video titled 'this is the 600hp Lexus nobody is going to buy' and indeed it will be something nobody will buy because badge snobbery. It's just the sad truth. Not cancelling it earlier and start from scratch to make something truly groundbreaking is the problem here. Eight cylinders or six, runs on gasoline or hydrogen or electrons, it doesn't matter. They just need to get something done. They already have a 1000hp V6 powertrain, use it.

It's hard to get motivated about making an exciting super car when the most expensive thing you sell is a $350k 160hp rebadged minivan. They are drowning themselves with their own success.

The issue is time. If the LC F debuted when the Lc debuted ala RC/ RC F then it would have been awesome. Or even a year later.

3 to 4 years later? Yeah the goal posts have moved multiple times by then.

Personally it breaks my heart as the LC F was a goal of mine. Much like the LC 500, it was a car I want.

The LC F was the only Lexus on people’s brains that are not Lexus fans or owners. I can’t state the number of times people have asked me about it. It’s a product that is exciting to people.

If this car is canned it’s shocking that Nissan still offers a 550-600hp GT-R and Honda/Acura offers a 560hp or so NSX and there is no option from Toyota/Lexus stock (yeah you can tune a Supra but that again has a bmw engine).

 

[spwolf]

It's hard to get motivated about making an exciting super car when the most expensive thing you sell is a $350k 160hp rebadged minivan. They are drowning themselves with their own success.

fun part of that is - $350k rebadgen 160hp minivan will outsell any Lx-F model they make (or competition).

p.s. @mikeavelli another fun exercise - does anyone sees Nissan differently today because they have GT-R or Acura/Honda for NSX?

 

[LexusExpressDelivery]

I'm praying this isnt true 😞

Lexus puts a lot of research in their planning

 

[Gecko]

fun part of that is - $350k rebadgen 160hp minivan will outsell any Lx-F model they make (or competition).

What are the sales projections for LM? Seems to me that LX/LX flagship has a lot of upside thinking about an all-new model in USA, Russia, Middle East vs. niche LM for China.

 

[mikeavelli]

fun part of that is - $350k rebadgen 160hp minivan will outsell any Lx-F model they make (or competition).

p.s. @mikeavelli another fun exercise - does anyone sees Nissan differently today because they have GT-R or Acura/Honda for NSX?

Spwolf I deal with clients in this realm of cars everyday. I also deal with kids that barely got their license trying to modify their cars. Then companies and everything in between that deals with these types of vehicles.

The Nissan GT-R is amazing for Nissan. No one can question the value it has been to them. From being loved in reviews to owners it is as good of a product as one can have. As time has moved on, Nissan has continued to improve and update it. It keeps Nissan in the realm of a sporty brand compared to say Hyuundai/Kia or a Chrysler and even as Nissan has a ton of CVT products. The GT-R keeps Nissan in the game as an aspirational brand since this is an aspirational car even with it being 12/13 years old.

The NSX has had much less success in that realm for multiple reasons but Acura/Honda does position it as the peak of their capabilities and it is used in their advertising. It hasn't really changed the idea of Acura to people BUT they can at least point to it. And similar to the LFA and what it did for Lexus, the RDX and TLX and then MDX/ILX will be positioned to be sportier and better cars.

Let's talk about the LFA. That car changed people's ideas about Lexus and got them in conversations they were never in before. Then we got those ideas from the LFA to trickle into new products. The LC F can continue this on a grand scale.

 

[super51fan]

The NSX has had much less success in that realm for multiple reasons but Acura/Honda does position it as the peak of their capabilities and it is used in their advertising. It hasn't really changed the idea of Acura to people BUT they can at least point to it. And similar to the LFA and what it did for Lexus, the RDX and TLX and then MDX/ILX will be positioned to be sportier and better cars.

Let's talk about the LFA. That car changed people's ideas about Lexus and got them in conversations they were never in before. Then we got those ideas from the LFA to trickle into new products. The LC F can continue this on a grand scale.

If this car is canned it’s shocking that Nissan still offers a 550-600hp GT-R and Honda/Acura offers a 560hp or so NSX and there is no option from Toyota/Lexus stock (yeah you can tune a Supra but that again has a bmw engine).

My biggest issue with the Supra is that they aren't using the car to add value to the brand like other 'halo' cars by showing off what the company is capable of. I think an argument could be made that it even hurts the brand. For example, I have been wanting ~400hp IS for some time now and thought it would be happen during the refresh but it never came to fruition. With that being said, what is stopping me from getting a M340i instead since the updated B58 lives up to Toyota's standards? This could potentially turn me into a life long BMW owner (I already am one but this is just an example) instead of a life long Toyota/Lexus owner. They had an opportunity to do the opposite by putting the V35a in the Supra and other vehicles and attracting buyers from other companies and retraining those customers for multiple vehicles.

Now, they again lost the opportunity to draw attention to their brand by stopping LC-F development. They rode the LFA wave for a long time and I don't think it will last much longer. With Genesis on their heels, especially with their reliability thus far and tech features that consumers want, I don't see what Lexus has going for them nowadays to attract customers.

 

[James]

Totally agree with the above. Once you let a customer or consumer leave to try something else they may never come back...it’s a big risk that Lexus is playing rt now...

 

[spwolf]

What are the sales projections for LM? Seems to me that LX/LX flagship has a lot of upside thinking about an all-new model in USA, Russia, Middle East vs. niche LM for China.

This is why I mentioned F model, be that LS/LC/LX... LX itself already has a lot of upside today.

 

[Levi]

No TTV8? Not a problem, they have a Porsche Taycan rival coming.

Uh, do they?

 

[yiantony]

No TTV8? Not a problem, they have a Porsche Taycan rival coming.

Uh, do they?

*Sarcasm alert*
Wait for another 5 years of "engineering" and got a subpar performing performance car and they will use that system for another 15 years..